Hearthpwn

personally I play Hunter in casual to be weird.  decks like mana wraith with super heavy on traps and weapons,  etc. why people would play undertaker in casual is more of a question than why pay Hunter in casual in my opinion

Quote from Balckovic »

I don't think BW will be that good, even with Gahz'rilla. In addition, we're missing still the mech part of the hunters...

mech hunter? does not appear to be such a thing, I'm expecting a beast with battlecry destroy an enemy mech, as the closest thing to a mech, hunters will get. Just so hunters can continue to ruin everyone's fun :P

This card has upsides no one else is pointing out.

It's a minor Priest Nerf, till now the worst thing that you could get thoughtstolen was a houndmaster or bestial wrath, but since you thought steal 2 cards there was still a strong chance the priest would get a beast along with those cards to get some value. Call Pet is pretty much the only Hunter Card priests will never get full value out of. The Hunter equivalent of shield slam and deadly poison.

Card might not be exceptional currently but at some point in the distant future there will eventually be enough quality beasts to make a great deck with this. Hunter is already strong, they don't really need a new card to make them viable, this however puts money in the bank for future releases with a card whose value will only grow with future releases.

It's a completely decent card, in that it entices Hunter back towards originality, instead of resupporting the silly undertaker spam pretty much every class can accomplish to a certain degree.

Quote from Beonitas »

Here it is:

Shockadin Rebirth! (Jeeves & Co.) Unknown Deck by user-16520380 - Nov 20, 2014 View Deck String Export to BBCode Export to Cockatrice Export to MarkDown Export to Html Clone this deck
Minion (16) 2x Jeeves 2x Knife Juggler 2x Leper Gnome 2x Abusive Sergeant 2x Argent Squire 1x Ironbeak Owl 2x Mad Scientist 2x Worgen Infiltrator 1x Wolfrider	Ability (11) 2x Divine Favor 1x Equality 2x Muster for Battle 2x Avenge 1x Blessing of Kings 1x Noble Sacrifice 2x Blessing of Might	Weapon (3) 2x Sword of Justice 1x Truesilver Champion
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Eww, way too many 1 drops. in my opinion you have too much random tiny crap and not enough support to make it work. Personally I would tweak it something like:

- 2 Leper Gnome
- 2 Worgen Infiltrator
- 1 Mad Scientist
+ 1 Southsea Deckhand
+ 2 Echoing Oooze
+ 1 Defender of Argus
+ 1 Direwolf Alpha

reasoning being currently 10/30 of your cards summon a single minion with 1 health so ooze gives you double the health and double the knives, double the buff value, etc.

you've got 20 charges of weapons in this deck so southsea deckhand seems good, or even great if you have justice out for a 1 mana 3/2 charge minion.

Argus/Direwolf give you additional support for for the weenie spam, with Argus actually letting you bring something above explosive trap health range

I don't think mad scientist is going to be nearly as good as you expect it to be in this deck. Infiltrator basically has no benefit from being in deck. Leper Gnome would be cut because squire has better life expectancy and sergeant has same stats but would help trade up your other dudes.

Quote from Asuryan »

Quote from Lanthazer »

I wonder what a betrayal would do on a foe reaper 4000:

 6 - 6 - 12 (foe reaper) -  6 - 6 or

6 - 0 (foe reaper) - 6

Quote from bjj_mat »

i think 6-6-12-6-6

No, Betrayal doesn't make the minion attack, it just makes it deal damage.  If you use Betrayal on Foe Reaper 4000, it would just deal 6 damage to the minions next to it.  6-0-6, just like any other minion.

I KNOW if you do betrayal on a Maexxna, it doesn't matter how much health the minions beside it have, they instantly die from it's poison ability. I don't see why this wouldn't activate it's splatter the same way Maexxna activates it's ability.

Quote from Asuryan »

Quote from Thungbard »

Anyone that claims this will help mill decks is out of their minds. Anyone that claims this will be beneficial to Zoolock is also out of their minds.

I'd play Jeeves in a mill deck as a one-sided card draw engine.  It doesn't matter if it doesn't force the opponent to draw cards, because every turn it's giving me 3 extra cards, and those extra cards probably do force the opponent to draw cards or help to keep me alive etc.

I don't think you would. The current problem is there's not enough exploitable ways to mill opponent without drawing cards yourself. The current main staple being Coldlight Oracle simply because with brewmasters/shadowstep, you can double the milling power. typically from what I've witnessed so far the Miller generally doesn't have less than 3 cards in hand at the end of their turn. It's more of a keep my opponents hand full so he throws cards away while I'm stuck holding 6-8 cards myself sort of gimmick right now.

The possibility to keep your hand low and mill opponent doesn't exist, even the new cards that seem to help millers such as clockwork giant and sapper do nothing to address the fact that the most effective way to mill is to increase your own hands size at the same time. Naturalize is good, but unless one of the unrevealed cards is something like "return the next spell you play into your hand at the end of your turn" it's going to remain as a 1 shot deal, and Coldlight will remain the best most exploitable/consistent way to mill.

Jeeves only becomes a valid mill deck include when Coldlight becomes obsolete,

At this point, Jeeves is way in the lead for my favourite card revealed so far.

Anyone that claims this will help mill decks is out of their minds. Anyone that claims this will be beneficial to Zoolock is also out of their minds.

For Zoo:
- the anti-synergy with soulfire and doomguard will keep it from seeing a lot of play

For Mill Decks:
- This ends up being a vanilla 1/4 for 4 cost, 100% of the time. Suppose you mill my entire deck into my hand the entire game, I'm holding 10 cards the entire time, JEEVES DOES NOTHING. Oh no my deck is empty, you play Jeeves, I still don't care cause I started fatigue holding 10 cards, as long as I don't play more than 7 of them, JEEVES STILL DOES NOTHING.
- This is actually the Anti-Mill card. Supposing Mill decks become extremely popular after the release of GvG, theoretically the amount of draw cards in players decks that aren't trying to mill will decrease because drawing will become unneccessary if the opponent is going to just give you cards to draw, but going up against a non-mill opponent, you'll probably at some point start to run low on cards, and Jeeves would be the ideal card draw to refill your hand back to 4 cards to start your next turn (3 draws at end of turn with Jeeves, +1 draw to start your next turn)

That's what makes Jeeves awesome, if the trend for milling continues to increase as it has recently, Jeeves gives you the draws when you need it against non-mill, and against mill it's draw effect never activates as a negative against you. It's the card that lets aggressive normal decks survive the mill-pocalypse that's coming.

In my opinion the meta in a few months is shaping up to be:
- Mill-Rogue/Druid because the general public is intent on a viable mill deck existing
- Annoying Priests because shrinkmeister is just going to bring them to a new plateau of annoyance
- Extreme Deathrattles cause there's been no sign of any cards to stop their current dominance
- Mechdecks cause their abilities and synergies are too good
... and hyper aggro because you're going to want a lot of cheap things to empty your hand against mill, you're going to want to kill the priest before turn 6 or Cabal, Shrinkmeister, Shadow Madness, are going to kill you, you're also going to want to try and keep up with undertaker deathrattles, etc. That's why Jeeves will be usefull, it gives extreme aggro other than zoolock a way to exist. Who cares if Cabal takes my 2 attack minion, if I can keep playing 4 of them per turn.

Should be a 3/2 but cost 5 mana with that ability, It's on par or even more annoying than a buzzard, it should cost 5 mana, just so I never have to play against it :P

Priest has always been my least favourite class to play against, after this card, I'm just going to keep my sanity and save some time and instant concede every priest opponent, unless one of the unleaked cards is something like a neutral spell like "give all friendly minions the ability 'can't be controlled by opponent'"

Quote from pimpemup »

flare on turn 2 is like a pass...you're wasting your flares boy

mad scientist or leper gnome+spider is the obvious play

Disagree, Mad scientist is the obvious play, Considering he says your hand is (Coin, Mad Scientist, Haunted Creeper, Flare, leper gnome/webspinner) Or Mad Scientist + Coin + Webspinner, really depends on what your opponent is up to.

Here's the givens in my opinion:

• Mad Scientist is a better choice than Haunted Creeper, because you want to get it out before you naturally draw your secrets, so playing it sooner than the creeper gets it killed potentially at least 1 turn sooner, plus the sooner you get free traps out the more of an advantage it is to you and the trap if it's freezing for example helps keep your undertaker safe from a minion attack. It has more attack than creeper letting you maintain board next turn better than the creeper. It is turn 2, you don't have houndmaster in hand so unlikely you'll draw it next turn to coin it out and every turn you have the creeper out before picking up houndmaster reduces your chances of it still being alive for houndmaster/kill command synergy. That's why you'd ideally want to hold on to the creeper instead of holding on to the mad scientist.
• Flare is just a poor choice all around turn 2, unless you're playing against a Warrior, practically every other class there's a potential for secrets or shade of naxxramas, conceal, etc. so that rules out simply throwing out the flare with the leper gnome/webspinner
• Supposing you had both leper gnome + webspinner and no flare, it's inferior to Mad Scientist simply because the following turn, you'll have 3 mana and 2x 2 mana minions in your hand while you used up your 2x 1 mana minions on turn 2, the better curve is using one of the 2 mana cards leaving you with options for turn 3 of using the 2nd 2 mana card + choice of 1 mana card, or 1 mana card + hero power, etc. unless you do have the coin in which case you could still coin out both the 2 mana minions on turn 3 after playing double 1 mana's turn 2, but that's over extending, you'd be left with only the card you drew on turn 3 in your entire hand, going into turn 4, where AoE start to be playable to destroy your cheap field.

It does depend a bit on what your opponent does, for example if they double innvervate out a sludge belcher their turn 2, you're not going to want to play just a mad scientist because it only brings your undertaker to 3 health. etc. but under normal circumstances Mad Scientist is the solidest play from that hand turn 2, since so few classes have a way to deal 3 damage on turn 3 that couldn't deal it on turn 2, for example Rockbiter/Lightning Bolt/Wrath/Warrior Axe/etc. if you're opponent had any of these in their opening hand, you'd play undertaker turn 1, then their turn 2, they'd use any of the previous mentioned cards to kill it, assuming they don't kill it, the difference between pumping undertaker to a 2/3 or pumping it to a 3/4 is negligable in most situations since they had no answer for it at 2 health plus you'll still be giving it that bonus +1/+1 on your turn 3.

Quote from dgoodm03 »

The idea behind the hatchlings was for AOE protection; explosive traps, consecration, and lightning storms seemed to do a number on me.  

I'd say the predominant reason that is, is because your deck tries to capitalize more off the summoning of tokens than on their sacrifice, 2 knife jugglers compared to 1 cult master, for example. More reasons to kill of your tokens should make you stronger to AoE, for example the Scavenging hyena suggestion, and second cultmaster.

AoE hurts the most when you're trying to maintain a board of low health minions, if you change the focus of your play style to something more like capitalize off of a flood of summoned tokens with knife juggler / sea giant as examples and than immediately use up the tokens with cult masters / scavenging hyena's, you can double dip value off those tokens life cycle better or at least more consistently and get value off of keeping your board to a controlled level where AoE doesn't hurt as much. In general if you get a token to live for more than 1 full turn, I'd say you're doing it wrong.

That's the fundamental difference between Hunter and something like Druid/Shaman tokens, those classes have a reason to try and make the tokens live longer thanks to mass area buffs like blood lust, power of the wild, savage roar, etc. Hunter on the other hand has the most proficient way of creating tokens, but no real class specific cards to capitalize of owning a lot of tokens for an extended period of time. So the game plan should be make the tokens and asap consume the tokens and get some benefit off of their deaths before your opponent can negate their deaths as trivial.

short of doing what everyone else is doing, I don't really have any creative solutions, for example:

- Sea Giants is a decent sized threat and relatively cheap to summon in any token themed deck

- you've really only got 1 cult master and 1 flare as your only true draws, Loot hoarder is a 2 mana cost deathrattle to help buff your undertakers and gives you extra draws, which is why it's generally used instead of nerubians by a lot of people.

- your 3 mana slot is rather weak, you've got 5 cards in that slot but realistically only 1 card Eaglehorn Bow that you'd actually want to play on turn 3. Which is why people love their animal companions it gives you a random minion that's stronger than the average 3 mana minion, and focusing on tokens, even picking up the generally least desirable Leokk would still be good.

That would be the sound suggestions to make your deck pretty much like everyone elses. If you want something slightly less conventional, I'd consider putting at least one Dire Wolf Alpha in the deck, it's all fine to summon a horde of tiny 1/1 minions from unleash, snakes, and haunted creepers, but the ability to potentially buff them to trade better would take it to a higher level.

Your deck in general right now seems to be a halfbreed of Undertaker and Knife Juggler, personally I would pick one and run with it for a higher consistency than having in essence 2 half decks as your current deck. For example if you choose Undertaker, you'd want to add things like Leper Gnomes, Loot Hoarders, maybe an extra trap like freezing to give more reason to include Mad Scientists, etc. to really feed into the whole early deathrattles theme, or if you choose to focus on the Knife Juggler then include more cards focused around your plenty of tokens and what can get value from them, such as including Timber Wolf/Dire Wolfs to help buff the tokens to a useful level, a scavenging hyena to capitalize off so many of the tokens being beasts, Sea giants to give another way to convert lots of tokens into an actual threat on the board, maybe a second cult master for more consistent draws, etc.

Edit: and including a Direwolf Alpha might make the nerubian egg more consistent also, if you continue to feel the need to include it.

Like everyone else, I'd drop the Holy Wrath, 18 of your cards cost 3 mana or less, and a 5 mana draw a card deal 3 damage is just a Hammer of Wrath for +1 cost, and that's already a borderline not great card.

Personal preference, I just don't like having 8 cards that cost 4 mana and none of them being a minion, which is why I'd consider including Defender of Argus, it would give you possible taunts, that you have none of, currently if your opponent assumes you have avenge he can simply go into, I'm just going to race this guy to the finish line mode, and you get absolutely no say, and have to give in and race him. If you want to keep it as a mid-range deck, I'd suggest some form of a taunt to slow down aggro to the speed you want, and give yourself a way of ensuring Avenge gets triggered.

a Couple cards seem out of place to me:

Double Mad Scientist: You are either really really into that snake trap, or I don't know why it's included twice, it just feels like mathematically the second Mad Scientist won't have a trap to summon 5/6 of the time, since there's only a 1/6 chance you draw both mad scientists before drawing a single snake trap. I certainly wouldn't include more than 1, including just one still makes the one not have value 1/3 of the time,

Nerubian Egg: your options for hatching it are 2 Argus, or using kill commands on it. I would probably drop it all together, seems like it would be a dead card a lot of the time.