How is this still going? Its an awful idea and won't be implemented, for good reason. You aren't supposed to be able to know what's coming so you can play around it, that's stupid. Good players already do this I wish I could do it to their extent but I can't because I don't care enough to really learn everything. I don't know half the cards by name even. If I wanted to, I could learn it and get better at anticipating and second guessing what they've taken from a discover. Playing around something isn't because you know it's there, it's anticipating that it may be and thus, making plays around that possibility. Sometimes this is easier than others, such as reading your opponents deck and knowing they are going to have X card and they will likely use it on X turn, so you play with that in mind.
They could potentially tone down the amount of discover, although I personally really like it but this is a terrible, terrible idea. You aren't thinking it will be good for the game, you're thinking it will be good for YOU.
Do any other card games do this outside of niche effects and situations such as physical games and showing you haven't cheated?
Heck, poker would be way better for me and a ton fairer from my perspective if I got to see everyone's starting hand or at least the additional cards. It's not fair that they always seem to have exactly the right hand to beat me or I fold and find out my hand would have won! NOT FAIR! Change the rules to benefit me please! This isn't a direct analogy, just tongue in cheek.
There was an instructive quote in yesterday's Hearthstone Top Decks article which addressed the relationship between random generation and skill:
"As randomness in the game increases, the skill cap becomes lower. It becomes impossible to play around all the random outcomes, and the edge you can gain in the game becomes smaller."
I didn't see many posters who were interested in the idea say it was because it would make things better for them personally. Some people like the idea, some don't. Nothing wrong with having a discussion.
Yeah that's fair, discuss away. It really isn't up to me what others can or can't discuss so I shouldn't have really gone there.
Going through the thread again, it's clearer to me that it probably isn't a good (or popular) idea. But it was interesting to mull over for a day or two and see what others thought.
Oh look, another priest hate post disguised as a silly discussion on seeing your opponents discovers (a terrible idea btw). Card generation is part of the game. You shouldnt be able to "read" your opponents cards though, that's a silly concept.
Subversive priest hate? Don't be ridiculous. Priest is one of the classes I've played the most since FitB launched.
How is this still going? Its an awful idea and won't be implemented, for good reason. You aren't supposed to be able to know what's coming so you can play around it, that's stupid. Good players already do this I wish I could do it to their extent but I can't because I don't care enough to really learn everything. I don't know half the cards by name even. If I wanted to, I could learn it and get better at anticipating and second guessing what they've taken from a discover. Playing around something isn't because you know it's there, it's anticipating that it may be and thus, making plays around that possibility. Sometimes this is easier than others, such as reading your opponents deck and knowing they are going to have X card and they will likely use it on X turn, so you play with that in mind.
They could potentially tone down the amount of discover, although I personally really like it but this is a terrible, terrible idea. You aren't thinking it will be good for the game, you're thinking it will be good for YOU.
Do any other card games do this outside of niche effects and situations such as physical games and showing you haven't cheated?
Heck, poker would be way better for me and a ton fairer from my perspective if I got to see everyone's starting hand or at least the additional cards. It's not fair that they always seem to have exactly the right hand to beat me or I fold and find out my hand would have won! NOT FAIR! Change the rules to benefit me please! This isn't a direct analogy, just tongue in cheek.
There was an instructive quote in yesterday's Hearthstone Top Decks article which addressed the relationship between random generation and skill:
"As randomness in the game increases, the skill cap becomes lower. It becomes impossible to play around all the random outcomes, and the edge you can gain in the game becomes smaller."
I didn't see many posters who were interested in the idea say it was because it would make things better for them personally. Some people like the idea, some don't. Nothing wrong with having a discussion.
I mean, you should be aware of what the opponent is doing with it's cards and keep an eye on them. Them not playing them and keeping on their hands gives you HUGE hints of what the card is. Either is garbage, or is something for an specific scenario. Then you can test scenarios.
What you're implying would kill the fun of this game. Let's face it, RNG is fun. Of course it isn't when it's bad for you lol, but that's the deal we have to accept for playing Hearthstone.
Not sure how much of the player base is on mobile, but it's probably a significant number.
They still don't have access to deck trackers which makes it very difficult to keep track of cards, especially when, say, a priest pops off with a monster Sethekk turn.
Always seems a bit odd that some players have this massive advantage over others.
Yes, if you let me see the cards you draw, I'll let you see the cards I generate. Otherwise, no, totally unfair. Why would you see the card that I generated with Venomous Scorpid, but I can't see the cards you got from Refreshing Spring Water ? If that's because I am supposed to know what's in your deck, well, you're supposed to know what's in the scorpid card pool.
Mainly because most ladder deck lists are very predictable. Generation isn't.
On standard ladder, maybe.
Good point. Wild is very different. Standard is the preeminent and most popular constructed format, so one would expect game changes to focus on their effect there first. And I don't think this change would break Wild.
Yes, if you let me see the cards you draw, I'll let you see the cards I generate. Otherwise, no, totally unfair. Why would you see the card that I generated with Venomous Scorpid, but I can't see the cards you got from Refreshing Spring Water ? If that's because I am supposed to know what's in your deck, well, you're supposed to know what's in the scorpid card pool.
Mainly because most ladder deck lists are very predictable. Generation isn't.
Card generation upsets a lot of players, but also allows for more game variety and situational play.
Possible fix: Why not make generated cards known to both players?
The player generating cards can still respond flexibly to the game state, but her or his opponent will have a much better idea of what to expect and can plan and play accordingly.
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Going through the thread again, it's clearer to me that it probably isn't a good (or popular) idea. But it was interesting to mull over for a day or two and see what others thought.
Chain discoveries still exist, albeit to a lesser extent. For example, Palm Reading into Renew into Palm Reading...
Subversive priest hate? Don't be ridiculous. Priest is one of the classes I've played the most since FitB launched.
There was an instructive quote in yesterday's Hearthstone Top Decks article which addressed the relationship between random generation and skill:
"As randomness in the game increases, the skill cap becomes lower. It becomes impossible to play around all the random outcomes, and the edge you can gain in the game becomes smaller."
https://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/is-random-rng-resource-generation-in-hearthstone-too-strong/
I didn't see many posters who were interested in the idea say it was because it would make things better for them personally. Some people like the idea, some don't. Nothing wrong with having a discussion.
Not sure how much of the player base is on mobile, but it's probably a significant number.
They still don't have access to deck trackers which makes it very difficult to keep track of cards, especially when, say, a priest pops off with a monster Sethekk turn.
Always seems a bit odd that some players have this massive advantage over others.
Good point. Wild is very different. Standard is the preeminent and most popular constructed format, so one would expect game changes to focus on their effect there first. And I don't think this change would break Wild.
Mainly because most ladder deck lists are very predictable. Generation isn't.
Card generation upsets a lot of players, but also allows for more game variety and situational play.
Possible fix: Why not make generated cards known to both players?
The player generating cards can still respond flexibly to the game state, but her or his opponent will have a much better idea of what to expect and can plan and play accordingly.