If you're playing a control deck, that's what you kinda sign up for. Resource and fatigue management should be the whole point of control v control, not "well they have this card so I lose10 cards and the matchup before the game even starts".
Yes but you're assuming that every control player signed up for that. I mean it's fun going to fatigue and managing your resources well, but it's one card from one class. It means that control decks will have to have win condition that are not only fatigue, and the ones that can't will lose to warlock but not necessarily to other control decks. Also don't forget that otk decks exist and control need at least a chance against them
Well yes but no, it has to be a win condition that is also not vulnerable to losing 10 cards in your deck on turn 10.
Well yes but no, it only means that X control deck will lose against tickatuslock and still can still win against aggro,mirrors and against other control decks that are not warlock.It's called a bad matchup.Don't forget that aggro exists and SMORC will still destroy controlock in most cases
Yes, people are complaining that a single card makes you instawin a matchup. Controlock works as well as any other classes against aggro, if not better because you do not have to put any threat in your deck. You just have to put tickatus and y'shaarj, (and maybe rustwix if you're fancy, but honestly you don't need him) and then you can fill the rest of the deck with as many removal, healing and taunts you want. Controlock do not have to make any sacrifice except for a card slot to have an enormous advantage against other control matchups, in the most unhealthy, random and frustrating way. I miss Rin
Look controlock right now is in a bad spot in standard, as stated by a lot of people in this thread, while in wild is only played regurarly in renolocks that also get wrecked by mill rogues and a good chunk of aggro decks, with favorable matchups only against priests (and we are talking about a 55% winrate at best especially in razakus priest case) and otk\slow value decks. It's not devastating the meta its only keeping excessively greedy or slow control decks in check. If people can't play their homebrew control\value decks is not beacause of warlock but mostly beacause of face decks that SMORC the opponent to death by turn 5. If a control deck is meta it won't be destroyed by one really shitty matchup. The card itself fits in decks that are already limited by their own big cards, its not like every warlock is playing it. Its surely frustrating but its not this boogeyman that people are talking about here. Also remeber that the game is going to change a lot in a few weeks so we can't be sure if it is going to be in a tier 1, 2 or 3 deck, if it is going to shape the meta or disappear for some time. A nerf now will kill the card. For the " i miss Rin" it's true that it was slower and less frustrating, but hearthstone changed a lot from that time. Most classes now can produce value and cards out of thin air, and decks contain more random than ever. So if the It'S RaNdOm your issue at this point you'll be better off playing another game cause hearthstone seems to have taken the random direction and i doubt our whining will change it
I have never encountered a control warlock that did not play (and win because of) Tickatus, so I would challenge the assertion that "not every warlock is playing it". And it's not because the deck is not tier one that it's not cancer. The discussion is not about if the deck is balanced or not. It's about tickatus being one of the stupidest card ever printed. Warlock decks that run tickatus are not tier 1, ok. But as you said, it's because the meta is all aggro and midrange, so it's in the same spot as most other control decks for that matter. But it gets to be a good matchup against any control deck just because of 1 stupid card that doesn't leave any room for play or counterplay from the opponent. It's not "punishing greedy slow decks" when it can delete 10 cards off the deck by turn 10. If your definition of a "greedy slow" control deck is a deck that has not killed its opponent by turn 10, you have a pretty warped conception of what is greedy and slow.
Ok so let's make some clear arguments here:
I have never encountered a control warlock that did not play (and win because of) Tickatus, so I would challenge the assertion that "not every warlock is playing it".
To be clear i said that is limited to that kind of deck. Its not like every single warlock out there plays it and is capable of reusing it multiple times. In most cases it will be played once and 5 cards are gone, worst common case scenario 10 cards (mostly wild here where is easier with brann). i remember back in this thread a guy that posted a pic of a ticktatus with a Sathrovarr on it whining that he lost 20 cards. I mean if you play a deck that sits still for ten turns without playing any threat it's no wonder that you lost, you've lost basically to any deck on the ladder or are on the point of losing. A nerf would be needed if this card was played in midrange decks where it screws with control matchups or cheated out before turn 7 with the mana tricks that warlock did for years. It's a tool against control. If you want to win against controlock put pressure on him so he needs to clear or atleast to waste his mana on something that is not a Ticktatus. Control decks can do something after turn 5 i think
And it's not because the deck is not tier one that it's not cancer. The discussion is not about if the deck is balanced or not. It's about tickatus being one of the stupidest card ever printed
I mean this is a bit subjective i'd say. There are many cancer decks out there but in Hearthstone history i'd say that not even half of them got nerfed. Why? beacause nerfs are aimed to decks that have a high winrate and almost no counter. Everyone here can say some deck is cancer but those cancer decks are some player's favourites, and he in turn hates another deck. Also this poll is about a card that may or may not need balancing so yes it is about balance and that balance comes from the matchups and winrate of deck where it's played. We can have a list with tons of cards that goes for the title of stupidest ever printed
Warlock decks that run tickatus are not tier 1, ok. But as you said, it's because the meta is all aggro and midrange, so it's in the same spot as most other control decks for that matter. But it gets to be a good matchup against any control deck just because of 1 stupid card that doesn't leave any room for play or counterplay from the opponent.
So the card is broken but it doesn't carry its archetype to tier 1? it's strong against control but it's what is meant to be. You confirmed that the meta is punishing already control decks. There were metas in the past where midrange was outmatched, aggro existed only as face and no token decks but it was never one card that did the damage and it's the same this time, control has its turn of being meh now. Also control is alive and well in wild especially after diamond 10. It doesn't leave room for counterplay after the damage is done but you can minimize that by doing good mulligans and putting pressure in order to delay ticktatus
It's not "punishing greedy slow decks" when it can delete 10 cards off the deck by turn 10. If your definition of a "greedy slow" control deck is a deck that has not killed its opponent by turn 10, you have a pretty warped conception of what is greedy and slow.
I never said that greedy means opponent alive at turn 10. Greedy means that by turn ten you have full hand and you can't pose any threat whatsoever in 10 turns. It's not about winning by turn 10 but it's about trying to do the best you can with your deck based on what your opponent is playing. Sometimes you lose anyway sometimes it works that's how bad matchups works. Control decks play the game posing threats while clearing the board, or atleast have some cards that push them to winning. Ticktaus alone can avoid the old control warrior vs control warrior we all die beacause of fatigue to be dominant, and if i am not wrong people were crying about that too maybe more than this card
If you're playing a control deck, that's what you kinda sign up for. Resource and fatigue management should be the whole point of control v control, not "well they have this card so I lose10 cards and the matchup before the game even starts".
Yes but you're assuming that every control player signed up for that. I mean it's fun going to fatigue and managing your resources well, but it's one card from one class. It means that control decks will have to have win condition that are not only fatigue, and the ones that can't will lose to warlock but not necessarily to other control decks. Also don't forget that otk decks exist and control need at least a chance against them
Well yes but no, it has to be a win condition that is also not vulnerable to losing 10 cards in your deck on turn 10.
Well yes but no, it only means that X control deck will lose against tickatuslock and still can still win against aggro,mirrors and against other control decks that are not warlock.It's called a bad matchup.Don't forget that aggro exists and SMORC will still destroy controlock in most cases
Yes, people are complaining that a single card makes you instawin a matchup. Controlock works as well as any other classes against aggro, if not better because you do not have to put any threat in your deck. You just have to put tickatus and y'shaarj, (and maybe rustwix if you're fancy, but honestly you don't need him) and then you can fill the rest of the deck with as many removal, healing and taunts you want. Controlock do not have to make any sacrifice except for a card slot to have an enormous advantage against other control matchups, in the most unhealthy, random and frustrating way. I miss Rin
Look controlock right now is in a bad spot in standard, as stated by a lot of people in this thread, while in wild is only played regurarly in renolocks that also get wrecked by mill rogues and a good chunk of aggro decks, with favorable matchups only against priests (and we are talking about a 55% winrate at best especially in razakus priest case) and otk\slow value decks. It's not devastating the meta its only keeping excessively greedy or slow control decks in check. If people can't play their homebrew control\value decks is not beacause of warlock but mostly beacause of face decks that SMORC the opponent to death by turn 5. If a control deck is meta it won't be destroyed by one really shitty matchup. The card itself fits in decks that are already limited by their own big cards, its not like every warlock is playing it. Its surely frustrating but its not this boogeyman that people are talking about here. Also remeber that the game is going to change a lot in a few weeks so we can't be sure if it is going to be in a tier 1, 2 or 3 deck, if it is going to shape the meta or disappear for some time. A nerf now will kill the card. For the " i miss Rin" it's true that it was slower and less frustrating, but hearthstone changed a lot from that time. Most classes now can produce value and cards out of thin air, and decks contain more random than ever. So if the It'S RaNdOm your issue at this point you'll be better off playing another game cause hearthstone seems to have taken the random direction and i doubt our whining will change it
If you're playing a control deck, that's what you kinda sign up for. Resource and fatigue management should be the whole point of control v control, not "well they have this card so I lose10 cards and the matchup before the game even starts".
Yes but you're assuming that every control player signed up for that. I mean it's fun going to fatigue and managing your resources well, but it's one card from one class. It means that control decks will have to have win condition that are not only fatigue, and the ones that can't will lose to warlock but not necessarily to other control decks. Also don't forget that otk decks exist and control need at least a chance against them
Well yes but no, it has to be a win condition that is also not vulnerable to losing 10 cards in your deck on turn 10.
Well yes but no, it only means that X control deck will lose against tickatuslock and still can still win against aggro,mirrors and against other control decks that are not warlock.It's called a bad matchup.Don't forget that aggro exists and SMORC will still destroy controlock in most cases
If you're playing a control deck, that's what you kinda sign up for. Resource and fatigue management should be the whole point of control v control, not "well they have this card so I lose10 cards and the matchup before the game even starts".
Yes but you're assuming that every control player signed up for that. I mean it's fun going to fatigue and managing your resources well, but it's one card from one class. It means that control decks will have to have win condition that are not only fatigue, and the ones that can't will lose to warlock but not necessarily to other control decks. Also don't forget that otk decks exist and control need at least a chance against them
It's a necessary evil. It's a class card that can be played in basically only big\control warlock decks that may or may not be there depending on how aggro the meta gets and destroys slow control decks (mostly priest) that have the wincon of clearing the board until the opponent ends his deck. This card alone is what can keep the meta from becoming the control vs control "loses whoever gets to fatigue first"meta that we had when Archivist Elysiana was added
Yeah, the meta would be so sad if control decks were allowed to exist, instead let's have any control vs control warlock be ruined by tickatus
Yeah, the meta would be so sad if control decks had a win condition that doesn't revolve around let's go to fatigue for 40 min and actually had to do something atleast in control vs control matchups
It's a necessary evil. It's a class card that can be played in basically only big\control warlock decks that may or may not be there depending on how aggro the meta gets and destroys slow control decks (mostly priest) that have the wincon of clearing the board until the opponent ends his deck. This card alone is what can keep the meta from becoming the control vs control "loses whoever gets to fatigue first"meta that we had when Archivist Elysiana was added
Nerfing Ticktatus is something unecessary. While i can guess that in standard it is somewhat of an issue especially in control vs control matchup, it's at the same time the card players on this forum were crying to have for years. It is the best card that can challenge otk decks successfully both in standard and wild. Especially in wild where with every new expansion there is somewhat of a risk that new cards bring back old broken combos\otk decks that in a week are everywere in the ladder. Also it keeps infinite value and slow autochess control decks in check. And it's really useless in any aggro matchup and against most midrange decks
Ok so let's make some clear arguments here:
To be clear i said that is limited to that kind of deck. Its not like every single warlock out there plays it and is capable of reusing it multiple times. In most cases it will be played once and 5 cards are gone, worst common case scenario 10 cards (mostly wild here where is easier with brann). i remember back in this thread a guy that posted a pic of a ticktatus with a Sathrovarr on it whining that he lost 20 cards. I mean if you play a deck that sits still for ten turns without playing any threat it's no wonder that you lost, you've lost basically to any deck on the ladder or are on the point of losing. A nerf would be needed if this card was played in midrange decks where it screws with control matchups or cheated out before turn 7 with the mana tricks that warlock did for years. It's a tool against control. If you want to win against controlock put pressure on him so he needs to clear or atleast to waste his mana on something that is not a Ticktatus. Control decks can do something after turn 5 i think
I mean this is a bit subjective i'd say. There are many cancer decks out there but in Hearthstone history i'd say that not even half of them got nerfed. Why? beacause nerfs are aimed to decks that have a high winrate and almost no counter. Everyone here can say some deck is cancer but those cancer decks are some player's favourites, and he in turn hates another deck. Also this poll is about a card that may or may not need balancing so yes it is about balance and that balance comes from the matchups and winrate of deck where it's played. We can have a list with tons of cards that goes for the title of stupidest ever printed
So the card is broken but it doesn't carry its archetype to tier 1? it's strong against control but it's what is meant to be. You confirmed that the meta is punishing already control decks. There were metas in the past where midrange was outmatched, aggro existed only as face and no token decks but it was never one card that did the damage and it's the same this time, control has its turn of being meh now. Also control is alive and well in wild especially after diamond 10. It doesn't leave room for counterplay after the damage is done but you can minimize that by doing good mulligans and putting pressure in order to delay ticktatus
I never said that greedy means opponent alive at turn 10. Greedy means that by turn ten you have full hand and you can't pose any threat whatsoever in 10 turns. It's not about winning by turn 10 but it's about trying to do the best you can with your deck based on what your opponent is playing. Sometimes you lose anyway sometimes it works that's how bad matchups works. Control decks play the game posing threats while clearing the board, or atleast have some cards that push them to winning. Ticktaus alone can avoid the old control warrior vs control warrior we all die beacause of fatigue to be dominant, and if i am not wrong people were crying about that too maybe more than this card
Look controlock right now is in a bad spot in standard, as stated by a lot of people in this thread, while in wild is only played regurarly in renolocks that also get wrecked by mill rogues and a good chunk of aggro decks, with favorable matchups only against priests (and we are talking about a 55% winrate at best especially in razakus priest case) and otk\slow value decks. It's not devastating the meta its only keeping excessively greedy or slow control decks in check. If people can't play their homebrew control\value decks is not beacause of warlock but mostly beacause of face decks that SMORC the opponent to death by turn 5. If a control deck is meta it won't be destroyed by one really shitty matchup. The card itself fits in decks that are already limited by their own big cards, its not like every warlock is playing it. Its surely frustrating but its not this boogeyman that people are talking about here. Also remeber that the game is going to change a lot in a few weeks so we can't be sure if it is going to be in a tier 1, 2 or 3 deck, if it is going to shape the meta or disappear for some time. A nerf now will kill the card. For the " i miss Rin" it's true that it was slower and less frustrating, but hearthstone changed a lot from that time. Most classes now can produce value and cards out of thin air, and decks contain more random than ever. So if the It'S RaNdOm your issue at this point you'll be better off playing another game cause hearthstone seems to have taken the random direction and i doubt our whining will change it
Well yes but no, it only means that X control deck will lose against tickatuslock and still can still win against aggro,mirrors and against other control decks that are not warlock.It's called a bad matchup.Don't forget that aggro exists and SMORC will still destroy controlock in most cases
Yes but you're assuming that every control player signed up for that. I mean it's fun going to fatigue and managing your resources well, but it's one card from one class. It means that control decks will have to have win condition that are not only fatigue, and the ones that can't will lose to warlock but not necessarily to other control decks. Also don't forget that otk decks exist and control need at least a chance against them
Yeah, the meta would be so sad if control decks had a win condition that doesn't revolve around let's go to fatigue for 40 min and actually had to do something atleast in control vs control matchups
It's a necessary evil. It's a class card that can be played in basically only big\control warlock decks that may or may not be there depending on how aggro the meta gets and destroys slow control decks (mostly priest) that have the wincon of clearing the board until the opponent ends his deck. This card alone is what can keep the meta from becoming the control vs control "loses whoever gets to fatigue first"meta that we had when Archivist Elysiana was added
Nerfing Ticktatus is something unecessary. While i can guess that in standard it is somewhat of an issue especially in control vs control matchup, it's at the same time the card players on this forum were crying to have for years. It is the best card that can challenge otk decks successfully both in standard and wild. Especially in wild where with every new expansion there is somewhat of a risk that new cards bring back old broken combos\otk decks that in a week are everywere in the ladder. Also it keeps infinite value and slow autochess control decks in check. And it's really useless in any aggro matchup and against most midrange decks