Hearthpwn

Alright guys, thank you for your flaming hot discussion hope I won't need to add anymore of Zeph plays here.

I still do stand by my point that even with guiding, for a card with pre requisition is far from "perfect plays". I will just try to accept his offers as it comes. I have dropped most of my Highlander decks because with Wilds rapid plays his offers are not enough. But I still do tinker about singleton decks (I have never played Mage, Warlock or Priest singleton) I always try to mash it in different classes.

Quote from grisu >>

people told you why he offered these options. your complain about holy smite is not really doing anything about it. zeph can only offer 3 choices, at this boardstate there are a lot of options. zeph by himself has a 3/2 body, so he can kill the 2/3 by simply attacking, so he offered you an option to deal with the other threat on board, which is a 1/1...

like zeph you also have 3 options: accept your mistakes and learn from them, don't accept you did somethign wrong and complain or simply don't play zeph anymore.

 But he do offered double removal for the 1/1, why not offer one option for the 2/3 as well? That way I keep Zeph alive which can trade 1/1 by itself and stay alive. This is way better option than he offered.

The problem I have with Zeph is look at my lich king post and darkglare pic.

I guided him for 4 mana but in what way Windspeaker and Van Cleef was useful... even good ol' Dazdingo would be better to protect my face.

With Darkglare he offered two removal options for one minion from which one damages my own board too and one useless play. Where was Holy Smite? it would offer an option to kill 2/3 which rivals Zeph.

I have said, I have had times where Zeph even guided offers bad picks. Don't tell me you never been offered options you just rolled your eyes, even some youtube vids showed bad offers.

I get what you guys say but come on he is far from being perfect options.

Quote from Kedalin >>

Seriously. There are a lot of articles available on how Zephrys is coded, and you don't seem to have done your research. If you want a certain result, you sometimes have to "coach" Zephrys into it, either by manipulating your mana or making/holding some attacks for before/after you play him.

In your Scrapyard Colossus example, he offered Faceless Manipulator, Natalie Seline & Temple Enforcer. The first thing you need to know is that Zephrys tries to offer a variety of types of solutions, because he doesn't "know" what outcome you want. The Manipulator is a good pick if the opponent's 7/7 deathrattle is one you might like too -- it gives you a copy of that card, and you can afford it. Natalie is a good pick if you want to get rid of the opponent's minion -- Zephrys doesn't know what the Deathrattle is, but he knows you'll end up with an 8/8 for 8, and the opponent will end up with a dead minion. That's a great outcome, by Zephrys's standards. The Temple Enforcer is there because it's just a pile of stats, and sometimes that's what you want. Three very different outcomes, based on the board state: "Copy a minion," "Removal + big minion," "Big stats and buff your existing minions."

Zephrys doesn't tend to prioritize transforms, because they're not efficient. Whenever possible, Zephrys tries to get rid of stuff using his "removal slot," to the extent that he has one. Leaving a minion on the board (as Polymorph and Hex do) isn't as good as taking a minion off the board, so if you have the mana to kill it, Zephrys will help you kill it. He doesn't know if the Deathrattle will spawn another minion; he just knows that there's a big minion, and it's generally good to get rid of those.

If you wanted Hex, as others pointed out, you should have spent some mana so that Zephrys would only have 4 to work with. In that case, he definitely wouldn't offer Natalie, because that's a next-turn play, and Zephrys prefers this-turn plays when he can give them. He still would probably only offer one "removal" type card, and that may very well have been Hex. But if you'd had Spell Damage, for example, it would probably be Fireball, because again, death > transform, from Zephrys's perspective.

Learn how your tools work before you complain about them. You've got the Classic set and Basic set to work from, not the Core set. I don't know why you thought it would change to include the Core set, but it didn't and won't.

 Lol, again the saaaame answer. I know how Zeph works, he just doesn't offer what I need! Even guided he is a total derp.

Your similiar posters above stated that Zeph might offer transform for high mana deathrattle minions. The only thing I agree with is Faceless here, getting 10 mana 7/7 deathrattle minion is awesome for 5 mana. But Why Seline? The minion is deathrattle and 10 mana, why would I want to destroy it and give my opponent deathrattle? If he would offer variety, he would offer the damned transform effect. getting rid of 10/7/7 deathrattle for 4 mana is not efficient? WOW! It is better to kill it so opponent gets deathrattle (I'm not stating that Zeph knows what deathrattle) or maybe put 5/6 to board? Don't be silly, those offers before are total whack too. For a "perfect card" he is pretty lackluster. I had often Zephrys offer me total bullshit card guiding him to 4 mana with Blood of Ghuun and 5/5 obsidian statue on board to only give me minions that no one plays and kill spell. Transform should be ALWAYS offered with enemy deathrattle minion on board. Thats the meaning of perfect card.

In short Zeph sucks. No argument will help to make him look good. He actually offered better options when he was released. 

Quote from Banur >>

Sorry, but are you doing that on purpose?

Why do you complain about Zephrys not offering a 4 mana poly card when you play him with 8 mana remaining? (You even had cards to dump mana.)

Why do you complain about Zephrys not offering a card from an expansion?

I mean come on, at this point it just looks silly.

 Why wouldn't Zeph offer Hex or Polymorhp when he offers 5 mana do nothing? This is silly man. 10 mana 7/7 with deathrattle is not worth of transforming? And I had 4 mana at my OP and he did nothing offered 4/3/3 windfury! WOW!

Shooting Star is in Core Set, I don't know from what pool they plan for Zephrys to get cards but apparently they won't program him to offer from Core Set. I know that he doesn't offer expansion cards. Also look at sooner posts he just can't offer good cards anymore.

The point is, Zeph is getting less of a help then he was before. Which is understandable as he is going to Wild and more expansion hit and Core Set enters etc. But still it is card they released with an effect and they should fix him every time they do big change.

I already dropped most of my Highlander decks because of it. I'm not playing HL deck to be offered lackluster answers.

Quote from Mixnmatch >>

Zephrys is a card based on gimmicky and very limited AI that decide what card from very limited pool give you basing it's logic on very limited amount of information. It will make mistakes more often than not and will give you usually only second to best tool for particular moment. I don't see what's complicated in it and why you need entire thread showing us what everybody with at least 2 working brain cells understands.

 

 The fact that I sacrifice duplicates in a deck and expect Zephrys to be a wild card. Negate your weaknesses and offer perfect card for my play. I have been screwed by him many times. He was good but he became redundant to have in a deck. Most of the time when I play him he offers total derp cards. Most of the time I expect to get transform, board clear or lethal. Which most of the time he fails to comprehend and loses me the game.

He was good but he literally loses you the game most of the time. I have dropped most of my HL decks because of it.

Why it did not offer Shooting Star? Of course! Because Zephrys isn't that great.

Just adding to annual Zephrys retarded coding memory, "transform only for HiGH maNa TargeTS" yes 10 7/7 with deathrattle is not suitable for transform but Temple Enforcer is perfect card for this!

Quote from Tykaine_J >>

Unfortunately Zephrys cannot comprehend deck archetypes. 

 

The sad thing is that my situation wasn't about deck archetype but about board state and Zephrys failed to comprehend it. Offered two similiar choices and one useless one. The thing is, evaluation and offer of options like this cost games... and that pushes certain decks to the bin because of bad coding. 

Zephrys will get probably only worse, because he needs constant updating or tweaking thru course of expansions. But seriously, for a card I need to restrict my deck offering such lackluster options and in other situations too he doesn't seem that magical anymore...

Apparently Zephrys will offer similar type of effects which does nothing to the board. Why he does not offer bolt or that priest spell to deal 3? But two cards that does the same and useless voidwalker. He offers to deal with only one threat. Whirlwind also damages mine board lol. He does not offered any option for 2/3.

Hey guys, do you still think Zephrys offers good cards? Always offering removals, so why this was Sap better than SW: Death? This is literally opposing problem I had with OP.

Quote from Geoff >>

Quote from Gray_Fox >>

Quote from Geoff >>

Quote from Gray_Fox >>

Quote from TheFFsage >>

But theres Shadow Word: Death offered?

Zephrys will offer you 3 different choices, he will not give 2 similar type of effects. Dunno why would you even want Hex or Polymorph in that situation

 I know Zeph can't read intentions of your opponents, card texts but it is rez priest, of course I would like to get hex or poly 100% than just SW:D because it will get resurrected the next turn. I also left 4 mana open to guide him.

 You would get Hex or Poly against a Deathrattle. Against just a big minion it offers removal. What did you expect? That Zeph would read opponents Deck and know you are playing against Rez Priest? Death is cheaper than both Poly and Hex and doesn't leave a minion on board. Based on what Zeph sees - the field - he offered the best possible option.

Honestly, what do you want it to do? In 99/100 situations Death is better than Hex or Poly. Deathrattles don't account for these 100, because Zeph already considers them and offers Hex. So you are complaining just because you happened to be in the 1/100 situation, where Hex is better and ONLY, because opponent plays a specific Deck, what Zeph can't possibly know?

Don't be ridiculous.

 Have I somewhere said that I expected Zeph to read my opponents deck? I said exactly the opposite, you even read what I wrote? I know that it is more mana efficient and deals with the current situation but cards like sap, hex would be miles better than Edwin or Windspeaker. Like what is even windspeaker doing in these options? Even shieldmasta would be better option to protect my face. I really just got tilted with Edwin and windspeaker options like come on, this is what I get for restricting my deck against 8/8 on board?

 Zeph doesn't overlap options. He offered you a removal - the best one possible - and two options different to develop the board. Edwin is pretty much the best minion there is to offer to contest the board, considering you were at low mana. Since he already gave you a removal and a board development, Windspeaker is there simply because it is often oferred, if other options are covered.

It will never give you both Death and Hex, simply because it is programmed to offer a variety of options. 

Should Zeph give different tools, which accomplish the same thing, I can already see people like you with the same stupid screen, just against a different opponent, making threads "Zeph is stupid, it offered me two cards, which do the same thing!".

 Fair point. Zeph is programmed  to remove minions unless specific condition makes it unable to him (4attack, high health, lethal) so sap is out of options too. But it would lock LK out for 2 turns we were at 6 mana. But I want cloud castles with this lol.

Quote from Geoff >>

Quote from Gray_Fox >>

Quote from TheFFsage >>

But theres Shadow Word: Death offered?

Zephrys will offer you 3 different choices, he will not give 2 similar type of effects. Dunno why would you even want Hex or Polymorph in that situation

 I know Zeph can't read intentions of your opponents, card texts but it is rez priest, of course I would like to get hex or poly 100% than just SW:D because it will get resurrected the next turn. I also left 4 mana open to guide him.

 You would get Hex or Poly against a Deathrattle. Against just a big minion it offers removal. What did you expect? That Zeph would read opponents Deck and know you are playing against Rez Priest? Death is cheaper than both Poly and Hex and doesn't leave a minion on board. Based on what Zeph sees - the field - he offered the best possible option.

Honestly, what do you want it to do? In 99/100 situations Death is better than Hex or Poly. Deathrattles don't account for these 100, because Zeph already considers them and offers Hex. So you are complaining just because you happened to be in the 1/100 situation, where Hex is better and ONLY, because opponent plays a specific Deck, what Zeph can't possibly know?

Don't be ridiculous.

 Have I somewhere said that I expected Zeph to read my opponents deck? I said exactly the opposite, you even read what I wrote? I know that it is more mana efficient and deals with the current situation but cards like sap, hex would be miles better than Edwin or Windspeaker. Like what is even windspeaker doing in these options? Even shieldmasta would be better option to protect my face. I really just got tilted with Edwin and windspeaker options like come on, this is what I get for restricting my deck against 8/8 on board?

Quote from TheFFsage >>

But theres Shadow Word: Death offered?

Zephrys will offer you 3 different choices, he will not give 2 similar type of effects. Dunno why would you even want Hex or Polymorph in that situation

 I know Zeph can't read intentions of your opponents, card texts but it is rez priest, of course I would like to get hex or poly 100% than just SW:D because it will get resurrected the next turn. I also left 4 mana open to guide him.