If you don't think there is skill in the game of Hearthstone, then I feel sorry for you.
You will probably go through life without the ability to think critically and understand true personal improvement. Blaming failure on randomness and accepting mediocrity instead of improving, evaluating, and gaining.
Aw did someone hurt your wittle feelings to the point you have to compare Hearthstone (which is MTG for ADD kids) to actual life? I’m doing very well for myself in life and I think a retarded monkey on crack could play this game. Take your sanctimonious post and choke on it.
I don't know if it's the ESL problem or just deliberate trolling. Either way, at some point it just becomes futile to try with this guy. The constant assertions about violations of ethics based on completely moral neutral design decisions have been going on for months now.
It's always shitty to have to wonder whether folks actually feel the way they profess to or if it's just troll culture, but I try to give people the benefit of the doubt. There's so much misplaced anger, though.
The statement was made earlier that the fact that the same people win consistently in the game is NOT an indicator that skill is a factor. Since it obviously disproves the notion that who wins and loses over time is totally random, the only other explanation is some multi-dimensional conspiracy theory in which Blizzard has arbitrarily picked a bunch of folks, many of whom do not stream or contribute to the publicity of the game in any way, and hold those names up as professionals. He's sort of hinted at some sort of belief like that, but never come right out and said it.
Again, if you acknowledge reality and admit that a small group of players enjoy far more success than can be explained by random chance, there are ONLY two explanations. Either that group of people is better at the game than most and that difference in level of play translates into success, or there is some artificial manipulation of win rates over a long period of time for the benefit of a few players, many of whom have no ties to the company or particularly large public followings that translate into aiding the game's sales.
No matter how many syllables you use to couch your arguments; no matter how many lofty ethical quandaries you try to create out of a card game, you simply can't get away from the fact that believing in the latter explanation flies in the face of all evidence available to us. If you are willing to do that, then there is no arguing with you.
In any case, I've been away from the forums for a bit because I've actually been playing and enjoying the game. The announcement of 1000 win portraits has me grinding away, and I have to admit I enjoy the hell out of this standard meta. Just fought a 25 minute battle as Control Warrior vs Highlander Hunter in which the hunter cast 4 Hunter's Pack (2 of which got him Savannah Highmane) and 8 Unleash the Beasts. Furthermore, he elected to take Twisting Nether off his Zephrys, and I instantly thought to myself, "well, that's going to suck for him when he plays Zul'jin". Except it didn't, because the Twisting Nether was the 1st spell Zul'jin elected to cast, meaning it didn't kill any of his board. Now, all of what I described is fodder for the folks who believe that RNG in the game is manipulated, these things couldn't possibly happen with truly random gameplay, etc. And of course, that is all nonsense. It could happen, it does happen, and it can (and in this case was) beaten. I can't help but wonder how many of these folks would have pressed the concede button as soon as they saw the Zul'jin result. Oh, by the way, my Dr. Boom was the bottom card of my deck.
I love games like that, and the experience would neither have been ruined, nor have changed the reality about RNG of the game if I had lost in the end. If you can't derive enjoyment from the gameplay in situations like that, this game might just not be for you. You don't have to poor poison out all over the forums; you can just go elsewhere for entertainment. But acting as if there are factual statements to make that the game is not only flawed, but somehow malicious or evil, is far beyond absurd at this point. Just decide if you want to listen to evidence and reason or not, and if not, be honest about it so we can move on.
In other news, someone else in this thread claimed that it was proven that RNG was manipulated because of things like the Quest card mechanic where the quests are drawn in the opening hand every game. You do understand, that piece of programming doesn't even touch the random number generation algorithms, right? That's a trait of the card itself which triggers at start of game, just like Genn or Baku did last year. There's nothing going on there related to this issue.
That was just a very weird way to come at this, especially from a programming standpoint.
TL;DR Work on your attention span
Except the game is rigged. Just because a handful of people are “pros” doesn’t mean they have discovered this great skill, it just means they made this game their full time job and got through the grind. They are not better at playing the game, just more patient. You’re fighting the 50/50 winrate no matter the meta.
Too many people are focused on if you win or loose. Yes, its important, but it hides the skill involved in playing the game.
You can loose and play like a pro, and you can loose while playing like a chump. These are not the same thing. The win or loss wil be the same, but how bad you were beat might not be.
Hearthstone is like a series of puzzles. Some are pretty easy to solve, some are pretty tricky to solve. Solving them well doesn't always mean you win becasue the random elements of the game can confound you. But what you do control is how well you react to what is happening at anygiven moment. That takes skill, it just doesn't always win you games.
So saying hearthstone takes no skill flies in the face of what we all do each time we play. What you really mean is that it is not a game where skill ensures victory, and that is true. But that is not at all the same as saying there is no skill in playing it.
Yeah those cancerous Murloc Shamans are really proving skill by vomiting their hand on each turn. Just like those Mages that sit back and play secret after secret. Yeah the skill...
Weird then, people like to see themselves as skillful and part of the elite reaching legend. But do you really think you have skill, or just more cunningly utilize mindlessness as a concept to do so?
...
Weird, a player with absolutely no accomplishments his given it's thoughts (and I use that word very lightly) on the game.
Why are you attacking the guy and saying he has no accomplishments? He has a right to voice is opinion on the game. Jeez.
Which RNG is manipulated and how? Can you link to that proof please?
Link what? The card alone proves it. It scans the board and looks for the “perfect” solution. That’s manipulation of the RNG right there.
Ah, I thought you meant something hidden happening behind the scenes.
So, a card works as designed and publicized. Where is the problem?
I mean, you either misunderstand what manipulation means, or what RNG means. Calling this "RNG manipulation" is the same as calling a "discover a 4-cost card" "manipulation" because it limits the discover pool to only a certain subset of cards, or calling Arcane Missiles "manipulated" because their targets depend on the board state.
ZtG is not RNG, it generates the cards based on an algorithm, not randomly. Zephrys proves that it is possible to manipulate discover options/topdecks etc. to suit the situation, but it does not on any level prove that it is actually happening outside of the instance of itself (which is exactly how it is supposed to work).
Exactly. “It’s possible to manipulate”.
There are literally infinite things that sit within the realms of "It's possible". But without any evidence to prove that it is happening, logic and common sense dictates that you go with that which is more likely.
And yet most people believe JFK wasn’t assassinated by Oswald, that there is crazy shit in Area 51 and that a bunch of idiots who couldn’t fly a single propeller plane used box cutters to hijack four airlines. Has any of that been disproved? It can’t be because the government is not going to just hand over their secrets, are they?
Same thing with Blizzard. I understand these are ridiculous comparisons and I’m not a conspiracy theorist but when something doesn’t add up, there are reasons why. Are you going to ignore all of the complaints from players who swear once they tech a deck to counter another, the matchmaking completely alters to compensate?
Its crazy to think luck and RNG doesn’t play a role in a game full of luck and RNG. Then again, ZtG has proven RNG is manipulated to begin with so...
Which RNG is manipulated and how? Can you link to that proof please?
Link what? The card alone proves it. It scans the board and looks for the “perfect” solution. That’s manipulation of the RNG right there.
ZtG is not RNG, it generates the cards based on an algorithm, not randomly. Zephrys proves that it is possible to manipulate discover options/topdecks etc. to suit the situation, but it does not on any level prove that it is actually happening outside of the instance of itself (which is exactly how it is supposed to work).
There is plenty of skill. Don't be fooled. If you think that luck and RNG play the biggest role in determining your rank then you are sadly mistaken.
Think for a minute about the hours and hours spent learning the different meta decks and what cards to play and when. And what cards to expect your opponent to play. And determining the percentage of winning by what is in your hand and what your opponent has played.
Or you just get lucky and wait for RNG to move you up the ladder? I think not.
Its crazy to think luck and RNG doesn’t play a role in a game full of luck and RNG. Then again, ZtG has proven RNG is manipulated to begin with so...
Aw did someone hurt your wittle feelings to the point you have to compare Hearthstone (which is MTG for ADD kids) to actual life? I’m doing very well for myself in life and I think a retarded monkey on crack could play this game. Take your sanctimonious post and choke on it.
Except the game is rigged. Just because a handful of people are “pros” doesn’t mean they have discovered this great skill, it just means they made this game their full time job and got through the grind. They are not better at playing the game, just more patient. You’re fighting the 50/50 winrate no matter the meta.
Yeah those cancerous Murloc Shamans are really proving skill by vomiting their hand on each turn. Just like those Mages that sit back and play secret after secret. Yeah the skill...
I hope people talking about how much skill you need don’t play secret mage. You would be a total douchebag liar.
Why are you attacking the guy and saying he has no accomplishments? He has a right to voice is opinion on the game. Jeez.
I should have worded it better. My bad.
And yet most people believe JFK wasn’t assassinated by Oswald, that there is crazy shit in Area 51 and that a bunch of idiots who couldn’t fly a single propeller plane used box cutters to hijack four airlines. Has any of that been disproved? It can’t be because the government is not going to just hand over their secrets, are they?
Same thing with Blizzard. I understand these are ridiculous comparisons and I’m not a conspiracy theorist but when something doesn’t add up, there are reasons why. Are you going to ignore all of the complaints from players who swear once they tech a deck to counter another, the matchmaking completely alters to compensate?
Come up with something original.
Exactly. “It’s possible to manipulate”.
Link what? The card alone proves it. It scans the board and looks for the “perfect” solution. That’s manipulation of the RNG right there.
Its crazy to think luck and RNG doesn’t play a role in a game full of luck and RNG. Then again, ZtG has proven RNG is manipulated to begin with so...
Lol skill in a rigged matchmaking system. Talk about an oxymoron.