Let's see… aggro takes no thought. Control warrior takes not thought. ____ (insert deck you can't beat) takes no thought.
But the deck YOU play takes skill and planning.
I'm detecting a trend here.
Was this directed at me? Because I've never said aggro takes no thought.
Control Warrior (the current version, with Dr. Boom, Mad Genius) is the only archetype I consider to be truly braindead.
Directed at anyone and everyone who claims a certain deck requires no thought to play. It's been said many times in these forums about aggro. It comes up just about any time a deck emerges as exceptionally strong. The fact that Control Warrior is very strong DOES NOT mean that it takes no thinking to play it. If that were true, every player who owns Dr. Boom would be legend right now.
No one ever said that all strong decks are low-skill decks. We are saying that this particular strong deck requires no skill.
Every player with the time and desire to reach legend who owns Dr. Boom probably has reached legend with it.
If you own all the cards in the deck and were unable to reach legend last month no matter how much time you spent playing, you will never reach legend with any deck and should probably give up that dream.
This month is a different story, as there are more decks that can counter CW. So yes, it is less strong in the meta than it used to be, but that doesn't mean we should put up with a card that creates a terrible experience every time it's played. Most of us hate it because it's boring and polarizing, not because of the power level alone.
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"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
I cant play around cards if 50% of them is "created by"
Playing around your opponent's hand is not the only skill a good player needs.
No matter how random any meta becomes, the best players continue to be the best. Do you think that's because they are just magically luckier than everyone else? No. It's because they can anticipate possibilities, choose their plays according to the best odds, and deal with the unlucky breaks.
I do agree with you about mana cheating, though. Every time it shows up in the game, it creates problems. The mana economy exists for a reason, and Team 5 needs to learn how unhealthy it is when they allow players to ignore it.
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"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Damn you warriors, I am not willing to play a 40 minutes game and I am not going to read a 40 minute wall of text either.
This is actually what I love. I'd much rather play the long game where i have to think strategic and consider the amount of recources I have and when to use them. If I want to play a 5 minute game I'd consider a less dynamic game (Pong) or games that have a certain time limit (like sports games)
The long games is are exactly what I'm looking for in a game like this :D
If you think a long game is the same as a strategic game, you have a lot to learn.
The only thought that goes into playing Control Warrior is matching the amount of removal to the minions on the board. That's not strategy. That's a kindergarten intro to numbers.
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"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
I would never say Dr. Boom is perfectly fine, but he is not as toxic to the game as mage, or even Hagatha, or Zul'jin
So much wrong packed into one sentence:
1. Your estimation of Hagatha is shockingly overblown. Her value is limited to the number of minions remaining in your deck, and random Shaman spells are usually much, much worse than discovered Mechs.
2. Zul'jin does not create the grindy, unfun endgame that is the whole reason people hate Dr. Boom. Zul'jin is an undeniably strong card, but at least it ends the game quickly, without infinite value.
3. "I agree that this card I'm using probably needs to go, but only if they nerf these decks I hate" is not a healthy way to approach balance. If something is bad for the game, it needs to go, period. Feel free to have separate discussions about other cards you feel are problematic.
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"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
For those who gripe that warrior is the only control game in town: I wholeheartedly agree!
Shaman and mage rely so heavily on RNG tools for control, and warrior at it's base is best geared for consistent control of the game. Priest could be incredible, but every time priest gets tools for control, they somehow end up as completely toxic decks and non-interactive OTK's instead (wild still has a big priest problem, and Frozen Throne had machine gun Anduin, wall priest was an atrocity, etc.).
Blizzard needs to figure out how to let other classes play control without making a joke of it or breaking the meta.
You complain about RNG, yet you defend Dr. Boom and his wacky hero power?
Whatever, dude.
Anyone who actually understands Hearthstone knows that its most powerful random effects -- including Conjurer's Calling and most Shaman tools -- work because they are not actually all that random. CC on a 12-mana card is a coin toss, but both sides of the coin are heads. Dr. Boom is the same way -- several different random possibilities, all of which are OP. And when you discover a Mech, you pick from three random Mech cards, but whichever one you choose is going to be given Rush, so there's literally no way you'll fail to find something useful.
Dr. Boom is consistent not because he avoids using RNG -- on the contrary, he very clearly revels in it -- but because for him, every roll is a bonkers-OP high roll. Even if you don't get the exact result you wanted, all you have to do is wait a turn, and you'll get something better.
There are ways of designing a good control game, but truly infinite value isn't one of them.
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"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
As I've noted in other threads, it's not about power level. It's about a single card creating a boring, repetitive experience.
Every single CW game that isn't a bad match-up for it comes down to the exact same drawn-out endgame that is simply not fun to play. This is not how other control games work. The goals of other control decks may be similar, but it's usually not this long, excruciating war of attrition against massive infinite value.
I fully agree that there are several strong decks that can beat Control Warrior, and I have no problem with a Control Warrior archetype existing in theory. But Dr. Boom, Mad Genius still needs to go.
No one ever said that all strong decks are low-skill decks. We are saying that this particular strong deck requires no skill.
Every player with the time and desire to reach legend who owns Dr. Boom probably has reached legend with it.
If you own all the cards in the deck and were unable to reach legend last month no matter how much time you spent playing, you will never reach legend with any deck and should probably give up that dream.
This month is a different story, as there are more decks that can counter CW. So yes, it is less strong in the meta than it used to be, but that doesn't mean we should put up with a card that creates a terrible experience every time it's played. Most of us hate it because it's boring and polarizing, not because of the power level alone.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Playing around your opponent's hand is not the only skill a good player needs.
No matter how random any meta becomes, the best players continue to be the best. Do you think that's because they are just magically luckier than everyone else? No. It's because they can anticipate possibilities, choose their plays according to the best odds, and deal with the unlucky breaks.
I do agree with you about mana cheating, though. Every time it shows up in the game, it creates problems. The mana economy exists for a reason, and Team 5 needs to learn how unhealthy it is when they allow players to ignore it.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
Was this directed at me? Because I've never said aggro takes no thought.
Control Warrior (the current version, with Dr. Boom, Mad Genius) is the only archetype I consider to be truly braindead.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
If you think a long game is the same as a strategic game, you have a lot to learn.
The only thought that goes into playing Control Warrior is matching the amount of removal to the minions on the board. That's not strategy. That's a kindergarten intro to numbers.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
So much wrong packed into one sentence:
1. Your estimation of Hagatha is shockingly overblown. Her value is limited to the number of minions remaining in your deck, and random Shaman spells are usually much, much worse than discovered Mechs.
2. Zul'jin does not create the grindy, unfun endgame that is the whole reason people hate Dr. Boom. Zul'jin is an undeniably strong card, but at least it ends the game quickly, without infinite value.
3. "I agree that this card I'm using probably needs to go, but only if they nerf these decks I hate" is not a healthy way to approach balance. If something is bad for the game, it needs to go, period. Feel free to have separate discussions about other cards you feel are problematic.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
You complain about RNG, yet you defend Dr. Boom and his wacky hero power?
Whatever, dude.
Anyone who actually understands Hearthstone knows that its most powerful random effects -- including Conjurer's Calling and most Shaman tools -- work because they are not actually all that random. CC on a 12-mana card is a coin toss, but both sides of the coin are heads. Dr. Boom is the same way -- several different random possibilities, all of which are OP. And when you discover a Mech, you pick from three random Mech cards, but whichever one you choose is going to be given Rush, so there's literally no way you'll fail to find something useful.
Dr. Boom is consistent not because he avoids using RNG -- on the contrary, he very clearly revels in it -- but because for him, every roll is a bonkers-OP high roll. Even if you don't get the exact result you wanted, all you have to do is wait a turn, and you'll get something better.
There are ways of designing a good control game, but truly infinite value isn't one of them.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland
As I've noted in other threads, it's not about power level. It's about a single card creating a boring, repetitive experience.
Every single CW game that isn't a bad match-up for it comes down to the exact same drawn-out endgame that is simply not fun to play. This is not how other control games work. The goals of other control decks may be similar, but it's usually not this long, excruciating war of attrition against massive infinite value.
I fully agree that there are several strong decks that can beat Control Warrior, and I have no problem with a Control Warrior archetype existing in theory. But Dr. Boom, Mad Genius still needs to go.
"Why, you never expected justice from a company, did you? They have neither a soul to lose nor a body to kick." -- Lady Saba Holland