I've gotten to rank 6 which isn't amazing by any means but I've pretty much gotten to the stage where the game is completely pay to win.
Now I have no problem paying a little money now and then (in fact I've probably spent about £30 on arenas) and have a few decent cards. However I think £30 is plenty. I'm very annoyed that the matchmaking system (even on casual) locks you into playing people of your skill level, because it has the unwanted effect of making alt decks almost pointless. Basically, I hit the pay to win wall and think it's retarded.
I think that in order to sort out this obvious problem with the game that they need to stop the silly card crafting system and bring in a trading/RMAH function. If I'm paying so much money for cards in a game, I want to at least feel as though I own them. If I open a pack of cards, I can't to be excited about what's in it, which I'm not, because it could be any old shit and I could just dis it and make what I needed. Which makes opening packs a bit bla.
That said Blizzard has my money now and if everyone who played Hearthstone spent nearly as much as I have (many people have spent much more) then they probably don't care if their game is flawed having already make an insane return on investment.
The game isn't released yet so it is too soon to judge how this game will turn out but for the moment I am getting quite bored myself. When the game releases there will be a significant boost of players and hopefully a lot of new features upon release.
Right now I feel that if you spend a measly $50-$100 on this game then you are set with very strong decks that can compete with pretty much any other deck out there. It is too easy to have a deck better than the player that owns it.
I played ranked for like 1 day over the past weekend (6 or so hours) and was ridiculously bored playing it. It really just feels like a grind. I only got to rank 10, but all that's required to progress is grinding games at over 50% win rate. I played in the earlier system as well, and hit 3s masters in like 25 wins (around 4 hours). So new ranked just feels like more grinding, which means I probably won't bother with it.
Arena, while often fun, still has no real achievements. I already hit 12-0 and have enough gold to play 20+ more sets, but it's also getting less fun the more i play it. One of the things i dislike is that ranked just doesn't seem fun, and arena doesn't have a real ranking system.
can you name any card game ever that isnt pay to win? no
Formats like drafting in MTG felt more like get paid to play. Definitely not P2W. Felt a lot like HearthStone arena, except you can actually cash out instead of building a mountain of worthless gold.
Personally, I like that casual matches me against people of similar win rate (and thus assumed skill level). When I want to test a new deck I want to play against similar players to see how my new deck fares, not to play against anyone ever and get destroyed by legendaries or against people who have no clue what they're doing.
I've been playing for 11 days, so far my arena "glass ceiling" is 9, but I typically get 6-7. I'm rank 14, with my main deck being a warrior deck with no rares, epics, or legendaries in it. I've only opened packs I've gotten from arena rewards, to save gold in case I have a bad streak. I've yet to spend anything on this game; but more importantly, I'm still having fun.
At the level I'm at I don't feel like I need to spent $50 to catch up to everyone else who already has all sorts of fancy cards. My win/loss rate has started to level off. If I was to spend money, I'd go up several ranks, and then hit the same point of 50/50 wins. With a matchmaking system like this everyone "should" end up at about even win/loss, expecting to maintain 80% wins is naive.
I am getting really annoyed at losing to decks that have more legendaries than me, and no other reason. It would be less of a pain if they weren't so impossible to get a hold of. Each time I open a new pack, I just get 4 commons I already have (or don't want, either way it's 20 dust) and MAYBE a rare or epic that I won't DE anyway. Either way, it'd take me about 20 arena runs to get ONE legendary, or a few epics I want. I've opened about 120 or so packs thusfar, and I only have 2 legendaries. Two of those legendaries are useful, and two are spell bound. I have only spent about 3 dollars on this game, but I have sunk a TON of time.
As a league player, it feels like the difference between paying and investing your time is astronomical. In league, I have everything I want and I haven't bought a single champion with real money. I got the point where I had a solid champion pool that could compete with anyone by the time I hit level 30 (after about a week). In hearthstone, I have played a ton over 3 weeks and I still am only halfway to having ONE finished deck. I understand this is a TCG, but you can't use that excuse when there isn't any TRADING in this trading card game. The cost for legendaries is too high, and the DE value of commons is too low. That, or you don't make nearly enough gold.
That on top of constructed being an endless stream of "guess which class is rushing you down, probably warlock" is growing to be a pain in the ass. However, I do still enjoy playing arena itself, so I wouldn't say that I'm on the verge of quitting. Yes, it's beta, but pointing that out should strengthen our point, rather than diminish it. Because it IS beta, these things should still be open to change. Blizzard needs to make money, but this game will have a really short lifespan if you need to invest this much time/money to compete.
Serious question, what is the incentive to play constructed? You get a pack of cards and plenty gold for playing arena, but what do you get for playing constructed other than 10 gold for every 3 wins? I assume I am missing something as there must be more prizes than that if everyone keeps playing it right?
Serious question, what is the incentive to play constructed?
Why do people always think there have to incentives to play something? If you need rewards to enjoy playing maybe you are playing the wrong games... I mean c'mon don't you just play to have fun?
Well the people who are fortunate enough to stream and earn money or people who just can out right afford it are lucky. I think in casual its nice playing people of your rank instead of noobs. I'd hate starting out playing this game and playing against a level 6 who is working on a new deck... I learn nothing
if you care about p2w play arena or quit, thats how card games work sorry
Which is precisely what most people will consider once they hit the pay wall and that's kinda the point here. Blizz are doing the same mistake they've done with WoW services, or D3 Exp - they are pricing for the hardcore crowd and are alienating any new prospective players. Granted, there are some hardcore folks which may be willing to shed out a few hundred bucks for cards, but that's hardly the way to popularize a game that's just starting.
They are prioritizing short term profit from their existing hardcore customers over the longevity of the game and it will bite them in the ass. If you want to expand, you gotta price accordingly - the WoW demographic is in severe decline and it's barely bringing in any new subscribers due to fees and ridiculous service taxes, SC2 failed hard at being played in a social environment because of the huge purchase price, they've just recently priced an expansion for as much as a full-blown blockbuster goes this day and everyone predicts a sales fiasco.
It appears their business model is based mostly on stagnation and milking their existing customers as much as they can. Blizzard is in a hiatus as far as playerbase goes - they're selling services in 2013 at the prices you could've charged in 1998 - and if they don't adjust to 2013 (soon 14) realities they're gonna be on a direct reentry trajectory and the end of the company with its current size may be at hand.
Uhhh, what pay wall? The game is completely free to play. Completely FREE to play. I felt I needed to repeat that cause some people seem to have missed it. Like any of the better free to play games you have either the choice of investing time or investing real money. There is no pay wall. You can play this game perfectly fine without paying. Ranked play, casual play, whatever, all there is to it is to accept that you can get those legendaries you face too. All it takes is time.
And you might lose more games against well constructed, well played decks at higher MMR that DO include legendaries then you do against well played, well constructed decks that do NOT have legendaries, but that's what the game is about. You strive for good, powerful cards you can build a deck with, and legendaries are some of the biggest hitters and some of the most unique mechanics in the game, that's why they are so freaking rare to see, and why people covet them.
Simple truth is though that if you want those legendaries too that you will have to simply play the game and you WILL eventually get them. I don't have a full collection by far, I miss legendaries in my collection that others have, but I don't moan and complain I don't have them, I simply replace them with other good cards and play the game anyway. And I win (and lose!) and I get my gold from completing dailies, and I play my arena for packs/gold/dust, and every so often I open a pack that contains awesome stuff, and even if it doesn't I get dust, and every so often I get to turn that into a card I need (like the Jaraxxus I just crafted tonight). It's not hard, it's how the game is meant to be played.
So that's the solution to everybody's problem. Play the game. You'll win some, lose some, but all the while you should be making babysteps towards getting a complete collection and more of those legendaries that people covet.
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I have never quit a game for anything the developers have done with it. That seems like a very childish thing to do. I stop playing games when I grow bored, end up getting into other games and not having enough time, or even real life activities.
can you name any card game ever that isnt pay to win? no
I disagree that card games are pay to win, With the exception of Hearthstone most of them are pay to play. In hearthstone though you can win just fine by not investing a single dime in this game.
can you name any card game ever that isnt pay to win? no
I disagree that card games are pay to win, With the exception of Hearthstone most of them are pay to play. In hearthstone though you can win just fine by not investing a single dime in this game.
I'm pretty sure he meant CCGs or TCGs... But yes, in any case according to official stats given out during Blizzcon, 44% of people in the masters 3 rank had not spent any money at all!
Yea game is shit pay to win, u dont have legendaries u cant do anything below rank 15. Looking forward to wildstar.
Like I said in my post above, official stats show that you can do extremely well without paying. You need to build better decks yourself with the cards you have rather than trying to copy netdecks and then poorly substituting the legendaries you don't have.
Sure, you need to spend a few hours getting gold to get a few packs to get at least some of the epics, but you really don't need a load of legendaries.
Also, here's an example of a cheap deck which will do very well (as long as you are a good player, of course!)
I've gotten to rank 6 which isn't amazing by any means but I've pretty much gotten to the stage where the game is completely pay to win.
Now I have no problem paying a little money now and then (in fact I've probably spent about £30 on arenas) and have a few decent cards. However I think £30 is plenty. I'm very annoyed that the matchmaking system (even on casual) locks you into playing people of your skill level, because it has the unwanted effect of making alt decks almost pointless. Basically, I hit the pay to win wall and think it's retarded.
I think that in order to sort out this obvious problem with the game that they need to stop the silly card crafting system and bring in a trading/RMAH function. If I'm paying so much money for cards in a game, I want to at least feel as though I own them. If I open a pack of cards, I can't to be excited about what's in it, which I'm not, because it could be any old shit and I could just dis it and make what I needed. Which makes opening packs a bit bla.
That said Blizzard has my money now and if everyone who played Hearthstone spent nearly as much as I have (many people have spent much more) then they probably don't care if their game is flawed having already make an insane return on investment.
Welcome to CCGs you have to pay to get your cards, don't be surprised...
無敵のゲルマン魂#2276
The game isn't released yet so it is too soon to judge how this game will turn out but for the moment I am getting quite bored myself. When the game releases there will be a significant boost of players and hopefully a lot of new features upon release.
Right now I feel that if you spend a measly $50-$100 on this game then you are set with very strong decks that can compete with pretty much any other deck out there. It is too easy to have a deck better than the player that owns it.
I played ranked for like 1 day over the past weekend (6 or so hours) and was ridiculously bored playing it. It really just feels like a grind. I only got to rank 10, but all that's required to progress is grinding games at over 50% win rate. I played in the earlier system as well, and hit 3s masters in like 25 wins (around 4 hours). So new ranked just feels like more grinding, which means I probably won't bother with it.
Arena, while often fun, still has no real achievements. I already hit 12-0 and have enough gold to play 20+ more sets, but it's also getting less fun the more i play it. One of the things i dislike is that ranked just doesn't seem fun, and arena doesn't have a real ranking system.
can you name any card game ever that isnt pay to win? no
Formats like drafting in MTG felt more like get paid to play. Definitely not P2W. Felt a lot like HearthStone arena, except you can actually cash out instead of building a mountain of worthless gold.
Personally, I like that casual matches me against people of similar win rate (and thus assumed skill level). When I want to test a new deck I want to play against similar players to see how my new deck fares, not to play against anyone ever and get destroyed by legendaries or against people who have no clue what they're doing.
I've been playing for 11 days, so far my arena "glass ceiling" is 9, but I typically get 6-7. I'm rank 14, with my main deck being a warrior deck with no rares, epics, or legendaries in it. I've only opened packs I've gotten from arena rewards, to save gold in case I have a bad streak. I've yet to spend anything on this game; but more importantly, I'm still having fun.
At the level I'm at I don't feel like I need to spent $50 to catch up to everyone else who already has all sorts of fancy cards. My win/loss rate has started to level off. If I was to spend money, I'd go up several ranks, and then hit the same point of 50/50 wins. With a matchmaking system like this everyone "should" end up at about even win/loss, expecting to maintain 80% wins is naive.
Fabulous Drag Queen Gaymer <3
I am getting really annoyed at losing to decks that have more legendaries than me, and no other reason. It would be less of a pain if they weren't so impossible to get a hold of. Each time I open a new pack, I just get 4 commons I already have (or don't want, either way it's 20 dust) and MAYBE a rare or epic that I won't DE anyway. Either way, it'd take me about 20 arena runs to get ONE legendary, or a few epics I want. I've opened about 120 or so packs thusfar, and I only have 2 legendaries. Two of those legendaries are useful, and two are spell bound. I have only spent about 3 dollars on this game, but I have sunk a TON of time.
As a league player, it feels like the difference between paying and investing your time is astronomical. In league, I have everything I want and I haven't bought a single champion with real money. I got the point where I had a solid champion pool that could compete with anyone by the time I hit level 30 (after about a week). In hearthstone, I have played a ton over 3 weeks and I still am only halfway to having ONE finished deck. I understand this is a TCG, but you can't use that excuse when there isn't any TRADING in this trading card game. The cost for legendaries is too high, and the DE value of commons is too low. That, or you don't make nearly enough gold.
That on top of constructed being an endless stream of "guess which class is rushing you down, probably warlock" is growing to be a pain in the ass. However, I do still enjoy playing arena itself, so I wouldn't say that I'm on the verge of quitting. Yes, it's beta, but pointing that out should strengthen our point, rather than diminish it. Because it IS beta, these things should still be open to change. Blizzard needs to make money, but this game will have a really short lifespan if you need to invest this much time/money to compete.
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if you care about p2w play arena or quit, thats how card games work sorry
Serious question, what is the incentive to play constructed? You get a pack of cards and plenty gold for playing arena, but what do you get for playing constructed other than 10 gold for every 3 wins? I assume I am missing something as there must be more prizes than that if everyone keeps playing it right?
Why do people always think there have to incentives to play something? If you need rewards to enjoy playing maybe you are playing the wrong games... I mean c'mon don't you just play to have fun?
無敵のゲルマン魂#2276
There really aren't any. Eventually there should be ranked rewards.
Fabulous Drag Queen Gaymer <3
Well the people who are fortunate enough to stream and earn money or people who just can out right afford it are lucky. I think in casual its nice playing people of your rank instead of noobs. I'd hate starting out playing this game and playing against a level 6 who is working on a new deck... I learn nothing
Uhhh, what pay wall? The game is completely free to play. Completely FREE to play. I felt I needed to repeat that cause some people seem to have missed it. Like any of the better free to play games you have either the choice of investing time or investing real money. There is no pay wall. You can play this game perfectly fine without paying. Ranked play, casual play, whatever, all there is to it is to accept that you can get those legendaries you face too. All it takes is time.
And you might lose more games against well constructed, well played decks at higher MMR that DO include legendaries then you do against well played, well constructed decks that do NOT have legendaries, but that's what the game is about. You strive for good, powerful cards you can build a deck with, and legendaries are some of the biggest hitters and some of the most unique mechanics in the game, that's why they are so freaking rare to see, and why people covet them.
Simple truth is though that if you want those legendaries too that you will have to simply play the game and you WILL eventually get them. I don't have a full collection by far, I miss legendaries in my collection that others have, but I don't moan and complain I don't have them, I simply replace them with other good cards and play the game anyway. And I win (and lose!) and I get my gold from completing dailies, and I play my arena for packs/gold/dust, and every so often I open a pack that contains awesome stuff, and even if it doesn't I get dust, and every so often I get to turn that into a card I need (like the Jaraxxus I just crafted tonight). It's not hard, it's how the game is meant to be played.
So that's the solution to everybody's problem. Play the game. You'll win some, lose some, but all the while you should be making babysteps towards getting a complete collection and more of those legendaries that people covet.
If you see a bad post on the forum use the report function under it, so I or someone else of the moderation team can take care of it!
I have never quit a game for anything the developers have done with it. That seems like a very childish thing to do. I stop playing games when I grow bored, end up getting into other games and not having enough time, or even real life activities.
Uno
Nozdormu wins you every game where you opponent has to go to the bathroom on turn 9.
Thats true ;)
Anyway, its better to w8 until release, then judge. Take a little time-off and play some sc2\d3\wow\lol\ etc ;)
I disagree that card games are pay to win, With the exception of Hearthstone most of them are pay to play. In hearthstone though you can win just fine by not investing a single dime in this game.
I'm pretty sure he meant CCGs or TCGs... But yes, in any case according to official stats given out during Blizzcon, 44% of people in the masters 3 rank had not spent any money at all!
Like I said in my post above, official stats show that you can do extremely well without paying. You need to build better decks yourself with the cards you have rather than trying to copy netdecks and then poorly substituting the legendaries you don't have.
Sure, you need to spend a few hours getting gold to get a few packs to get at least some of the epics, but you really don't need a load of legendaries.
Also, here's an example of a cheap deck which will do very well (as long as you are a good player, of course!)
http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/17202-80-win-deck-by-ek0p-low-budget
And what has Wildstar got to do with card games?