I did some summary graphic of my ranked plays (only rankeds, no casual/arenas/friends) since 21 October to 21 November (today):
(click right mouse button and select "show image" to inscrease size)
I was playing when i could (when i just had some time). I know theres a low amount of games (only about 125 games in month) but i hope you can get me some advices - what can i improve with my decks? I reached only rank 8 (i was switching between decks depend to opponents and depend to my actual wishes "which deck to play"). I was meeting Hunters and Warlocks mostly , Mages and Rogues were rarely. More specific you can see on graphic in section "Opponent heroes".
So what you think i can change in my decks? What cards i need? (I will tell you if i have them, or should i craft).
roughly. ramp too slow play double combo one, dont play mage in this meta, control priest with ysera too slow and bad for meta atm play deathrattle one, your miracle list is messed up for example you play assasins blade but only one blade fury and senjins are bad, also no charge finisher with coldbloods, zoo looks somewhat fine.
Those are some pretty cool stats. Seems like over all you had more wins than losses which is cool.
Only observation I would make is perhaps you were playing too many decks? I remember reading somewhere that it's better to master a single deck and have a second one as backup for when you get put against a lot of counters to your deck.
But your win rate is good and rank 8 is pretty high. So congratulations :)
roughly. ramp too slow play double combo one, dont play mage in this meta, control priest with ysera too slow and bad for meta atm play deathrattle one, your miracle list is messed up for example you play assasins blade but only one blade fury and senjins are bad, also no charge finisher with coldbloods, zoo looks somewhat fine.
You comments are pretty ill-informed really and do no consider different metas at varying ranks. Ramp druid is fine, with or without a single copy of the combo. Don't play mage is a pretty useless comment - secrets mage and hand mage can do pretty well; just because you can't play it doesn't mean others can't. Ysera is totally standard in deathrattle priest, not a must-have but definitely isn't bad. Control priest is just as viable and in fact more common at higher ranks. Lastly, you should not play two blade flurrys in Miracle Rogue, since its so situational, even with assassins blade. Miracle can also win just by controlling the board. Senjin isn't bad - many players still play them at high ranks.
Not to say there are not criticisms for the OP, but you are making them for all the wrong reasons.
Actually Sen'Jin is pretty bad in Miracles, in the sense that even tho' it's a good card if you top deck him when you're in the red zone Violet Teacher is strictly better because the opponent will be forced to remove it or give you value any way and he's even playing 2xConceal and losing clear synergy there.
Actually Sen'Jin is pretty bad in Miracles, in the sense that even tho' it's a good card if you top deck him when you're in the red zone Violet Teacher is strictly better because the opponent will be forced to remove it or give you value any way and he's even playing 2xConceal and losing clear synergy there.
I wouldn't play Senjin in Miracle Rogue myself, but I can see the point of people playing it (and have seen it played at rank 1) or Sludge Belchers (which is relatively common). I agree that Violet Teacher is a common play, but again I don't consider it to be that good. The point is there are merits to having these cards, and it is not straightforward wrong to have them.
For example, Danielctin's Miracle Rogue deck in the Dreamhack grand finals earlier in the year contained two Senjins. Clearly he must have done something right to get that far.
By the way, I don't like 2 conceals, but again some good players like Firebat use that, and I can't just say it's wrong.
roughly. ramp too slow play double combo one, dont play mage in this meta, control priest with ysera too slow and bad for meta atm play deathrattle one, your miracle list is messed up for example you play assasins blade but only one blade fury and senjins are bad, also no charge finisher with coldbloods, zoo looks somewhat fine.
You comments are pretty ill-informed really and do no consider different metas at varying ranks. Ramp druid is fine, with or without a single copy of the combo. Don't play mage is a pretty useless comment - secrets mage and hand mage can do pretty well; just because you can't play it doesn't mean others can't. Ysera is totally standard in deathrattle priest, not a must-have but definitely isn't bad. Control priest is just as viable and in fact more common at higher ranks. Lastly, you should not play two blade flurrys in Miracle Rogue, since its so situational, even with assassins blade. Miracle can also win just by controlling the board. Senjin isn't bad - many players still play them at high ranks.
Not to say there are not criticisms for the OP, but you are making them for all the wrong reasons.
first off let me start with ramp. for this meta, and for laddering it is too slow. not bad, abit worse then double combo and alot slower.
second, control priest is actualy good, ysera is too slow for this meta for sure but if its any class that can run it its priest i agree. but again, too slow. as for the mage comment (you mentioned i cant play mage, please dont go personal on me and make a valid point, i am legend player and i play alot of hearthstone)
mage is solid, in a tournament format. maybe. for ladder at this moment its just pain. hunters dominate the ladder.
as far as miracle goes people build it in so many ways but i just dont see any finisher in this guys deck. i mean what is he gonna do, try to get few minions on board to stick and conceal them praying theres no aoe *(since there is so few minions in his deck allready). what are your winning options? grinding your opponent down? this meta is aggro all the way. you just cant afford to play this somewhat defensive cards, not to mention that almost evry other deck now runs black knight. you have to go with more agressive option. southsea+faceless , leeroy even.
Overall your decks look pretty standard with a couple changes, not bad in all. I would suggest making the Druid a little faster, more Tempo then Ramp, and the same with the Priest, either adding in an extra SW:P, Smite, or Shadow Madness. I'm not a fan of Mage in its current condition, I like it a little more control/freeze than secret when I play it, but it's just doesn't quite preform as well as it could. What your running is fine, just think it could be tuned a little better for this aggro heavy meta.
On a side note...
An interesting fact by looking at your games, around the ranks of 10+/-... You had 51 games vs Warlock/Hunter and 69 vs other classes. That's only 42.5% of all games. And I'm sure not all of the Warlock/Hunters were aggro/rush. Sure they are annoying, but not nearly as bad as most are making it out to be.
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All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible. - T. E. Lawrence
roughly. ramp too slow play double combo one, dont play mage in this meta, control priest with ysera too slow and bad for meta atm play deathrattle one, your miracle list is messed up for example you play assasins blade but only one blade fury and senjins are bad, also no charge finisher with coldbloods, zoo looks somewhat fine.
You comments are pretty ill-informed really and do no consider different metas at varying ranks. Ramp druid is fine, with or without a single copy of the combo. Don't play mage is a pretty useless comment - secrets mage and hand mage can do pretty well; just because you can't play it doesn't mean others can't. Ysera is totally standard in deathrattle priest, not a must-have but definitely isn't bad. Control priest is just as viable and in fact more common at higher ranks. Lastly, you should not play two blade flurrys in Miracle Rogue, since its so situational, even with assassins blade. Miracle can also win just by controlling the board. Senjin isn't bad - many players still play them at high ranks.
Not to say there are not criticisms for the OP, but you are making them for all the wrong reasons.
first off let me start with ramp. for this meta, and for laddering it is too slow. not bad, abit worse then double combo and alot slower.
second, control priest is actualy good, ysera is too slow for this meta for sure but if its any class that can run it its priest i agree. but again, too slow. as for the mage comment (you mentioned i cant play mage, please dont go personal on me and make a valid point, i am legend player and i play alot of hearthstone)
mage is solid, in a tournament format. maybe. for ladder at this moment its just pain. hunters dominate the ladder.
as far as miracle goes people build it in so many ways but i just dont see any finisher in this guys deck. i mean what is he gonna do, try to get few minions on board to stick and conceal them praying theres no aoe *(since there is so few minions in his deck allready). what are your winning options? grinding your opponent down? this meta is aggro all the way. you just cant afford to play this somewhat defensive cards, not to mention that almost evry other deck now runs black knight. you have to go with more agressive option. southsea+faceless , leeroy even.
Hi, thanks for the response. I guess I was just a bit unsatisfied that the assertions were made without much reasoning to back them up. It's good to see your reasons outlined.
Let's talk about ramp. It's very slow without your ramp cards, and even with the ramp cards it can still be too slow against aggressive decks. It is also less effective against decks like warrior which druids are meant to be favoured against. Still, the fact is that people have laddered successfully with it to legend ranks in pretty much every meta, even if at a slower pace. The deck is better against some hunter builds and shaman, so it has its place. I am persuming that this is not about how to reach rank 100+ on legend the fastest, but about what is viable to do so. Players like Dog and Reckful have shown that it is, and to me a better advice would be how to improve the OP's ramp deck, not to tell him to play a completely different deck.
On priest, I still feel a single late-game threat is needed, but perhaps Ysera is too slow. I run KT in my deathrattle priest and it works well as it comes much faster. But then again, successful players still run it on ladder, with due consideration over the meta.
On Mage, first I apologize for assuming you don't know how to play Mage. I said it because you made a lot of sweeping statements which need some backing up, otherwise they appeared a little arrogant. If I am a Mage player asking for advice, I would not find "don't play mage" per se to be a particularly useful advice, and it would actually be somewhat disrespectful. On the other hand, the OP does play 4 different classes, so maybe you are approaching it from a different angle, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. On actual Mage gameplay, I actually find the Secrets Mage to be reasonable against Hunter - Flare doesn't really counter Counterspell, which allows you to keep multiple secrets on board. Meanwhile, Secrets Mage demolishes any midrange decks and is also solid against control, so there is an upside. The decisive downside is actually the Zoolock matchup rather than Hunter, as Zoo just crushes you with tempo, which the Mage deck absolutely needs. The other variant of Mage, the Giants Mage, is piloted to legend by Duckwingface and Hyped every season, so it will take more than a sweeping statement to dismiss it. To take a balanced view, I will freely say that I don't believe Freeze Mage is a viable ladder deck with all the Hunters and Warriors around, although in tournaments it still can be good. The point here is that some Mage builds actually have a reasonable Hunter matchup, even if the overall winrate shows a terrible one-sided matchup between the two classes (from hearthstat data).
On the Miracle Rogue, yeah you are right that there are no finishers. I would personally run a finisher myself (I prefer the Deckhand + Faceless version), so I guess stylistically we are in agreement. However, I also believe the lack of finishers in some versions of Miracle is more a stylistic choice after Leeroy Jenkins got nerfed. On Liquidhearth and ihearthU, there are articles of Miracle Rogue decks without any finishers but which are still run in tournaments by the top players. The power of the Rogue deck comes from the Gadgetzan Auctioneer, and with card and board advantage you can definitely piece together the damage easily. Between two Cold Bloods and the Assassin's Blade, not to mention two Conceals, lethal is not difficult to set-up once the draw mechanic gets going. I would still run a finisher and as would you, but what I'm saying is that not running is a stylistic choice and not necessarily a mistake.
You can see my preferred version of Miracle in my deck lists I have in my profile.
Look, I apologise for my comments and any offense it caused. I guess I would just like to see some good reasoning on the decks the OP would like to play (like you posted just then) than just saying that X class shouldn't be played.
Thank you guys for your comments - i read them all and i think i will make some changes - i did changed sen'jins for violet teachers and its much better - since leeroy is 5 mana i don't like "finisher" miracle, i prefer more control play, don't know maybe this is bad :P.
I don't know what changes about druid - i think like every card is important here, i heard spectral knights/double combo version sucks in ladder and is good only in tournaments is it truth?
I like my priest as it is - of course sometimes Ysera can be painful vs Hunter/Zoo but overall is fine - maybe i will try Deathreattle this month will see (especially when new cards comes - this will change meta drastically).
As Mage - it's my "main" class, i have almost 500 wins in rankeds by her, i know hunters can counter me easily but... to be honest i have not bad win/lose ratio vs them: 40/60% vs Hunter, 44/56% vs Zoo - so overall when i meet more control decks is fine i guess :P
Hello guys,
I did some summary graphic of my ranked plays (only rankeds, no casual/arenas/friends) since 21 October to 21 November (today):
(click right mouse button and select "show image" to inscrease size)
I was playing when i could (when i just had some time). I know theres a low amount of games (only about 125 games in month) but i hope you can get me some advices - what can i improve with my decks? I reached only rank 8 (i was switching between decks depend to opponents and depend to my actual wishes "which deck to play").
I was meeting Hunters and Warlocks mostly , Mages and Rogues were rarely. More specific you can see on graphic in section "Opponent heroes".
So what you think i can change in my decks? What cards i need? (I will tell you if i have them, or should i craft).
Best regards,
Arcadia
Legends:
- Season 14 [May 2015] - Mech Mage
- Season 17 [August 2015] - Combo Druid
roughly. ramp too slow play double combo one, dont play mage in this meta, control priest with ysera too slow and bad for meta atm play deathrattle one, your miracle list is messed up for example you play assasins blade but only one blade fury and senjins are bad, also no charge finisher with coldbloods, zoo looks somewhat fine.
Control priest is absolutely fine I would probably just switch Ysera for another smite if you face a lot of aggro.
Those are some pretty cool stats. Seems like over all you had more wins than losses which is cool.
Only observation I would make is perhaps you were playing too many decks? I remember reading somewhere that it's better to master a single deck and have a second one as backup for when you get put against a lot of counters to your deck.
But your win rate is good and rank 8 is pretty high. So congratulations :)
Personal website: http://thatcodecorner.com
You comments are pretty ill-informed really and do no consider different metas at varying ranks. Ramp druid is fine, with or without a single copy of the combo. Don't play mage is a pretty useless comment - secrets mage and hand mage can do pretty well; just because you can't play it doesn't mean others can't. Ysera is totally standard in deathrattle priest, not a must-have but definitely isn't bad. Control priest is just as viable and in fact more common at higher ranks. Lastly, you should not play two blade flurrys in Miracle Rogue, since its so situational, even with assassins blade. Miracle can also win just by controlling the board. Senjin isn't bad - many players still play them at high ranks.
Not to say there are not criticisms for the OP, but you are making them for all the wrong reasons.
Actually Sen'Jin is pretty bad in Miracles, in the sense that even tho' it's a good card if you top deck him when you're in the red zone Violet Teacher is strictly better because the opponent will be forced to remove it or give you value any way and he's even playing 2xConceal and losing clear synergy there.
I wouldn't play Senjin in Miracle Rogue myself, but I can see the point of people playing it (and have seen it played at rank 1) or Sludge Belchers (which is relatively common). I agree that Violet Teacher is a common play, but again I don't consider it to be that good. The point is there are merits to having these cards, and it is not straightforward wrong to have them.
For example, Danielctin's Miracle Rogue deck in the Dreamhack grand finals earlier in the year contained two Senjins. Clearly he must have done something right to get that far.
By the way, I don't like 2 conceals, but again some good players like Firebat use that, and I can't just say it's wrong.
first off let me start with ramp. for this meta, and for laddering it is too slow. not bad, abit worse then double combo and alot slower.
second, control priest is actualy good, ysera is too slow for this meta for sure but if its any class that can run it its priest i agree. but again, too slow. as for the mage comment (you mentioned i cant play mage, please dont go personal on me and make a valid point, i am legend player and i play alot of hearthstone)
mage is solid, in a tournament format. maybe. for ladder at this moment its just pain. hunters dominate the ladder.
as far as miracle goes people build it in so many ways but i just dont see any finisher in this guys deck. i mean what is he gonna do, try to get few minions on board to stick and conceal them praying theres no aoe *(since there is so few minions in his deck allready). what are your winning options? grinding your opponent down? this meta is aggro all the way. you just cant afford to play this somewhat defensive cards, not to mention that almost evry other deck now runs black knight. you have to go with more agressive option. southsea+faceless , leeroy even.
Overall your decks look pretty standard with a couple changes, not bad in all. I would suggest making the Druid a little faster, more Tempo then Ramp, and the same with the Priest, either adding in an extra SW:P, Smite, or Shadow Madness. I'm not a fan of Mage in its current condition, I like it a little more control/freeze than secret when I play it, but it's just doesn't quite preform as well as it could. What your running is fine, just think it could be tuned a little better for this aggro heavy meta.
On a side note...
An interesting fact by looking at your games, around the ranks of 10+/-... You had 51 games vs Warlock/Hunter and 69 vs other classes. That's only 42.5% of all games. And I'm sure not all of the Warlock/Hunters were aggro/rush. Sure they are annoying, but not nearly as bad as most are making it out to be.
All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible. - T. E. Lawrence
Hi, thanks for the response. I guess I was just a bit unsatisfied that the assertions were made without much reasoning to back them up. It's good to see your reasons outlined.
Let's talk about ramp. It's very slow without your ramp cards, and even with the ramp cards it can still be too slow against aggressive decks. It is also less effective against decks like warrior which druids are meant to be favoured against. Still, the fact is that people have laddered successfully with it to legend ranks in pretty much every meta, even if at a slower pace. The deck is better against some hunter builds and shaman, so it has its place. I am persuming that this is not about how to reach rank 100+ on legend the fastest, but about what is viable to do so. Players like Dog and Reckful have shown that it is, and to me a better advice would be how to improve the OP's ramp deck, not to tell him to play a completely different deck.
On priest, I still feel a single late-game threat is needed, but perhaps Ysera is too slow. I run KT in my deathrattle priest and it works well as it comes much faster. But then again, successful players still run it on ladder, with due consideration over the meta.
On Mage, first I apologize for assuming you don't know how to play Mage. I said it because you made a lot of sweeping statements which need some backing up, otherwise they appeared a little arrogant. If I am a Mage player asking for advice, I would not find "don't play mage" per se to be a particularly useful advice, and it would actually be somewhat disrespectful. On the other hand, the OP does play 4 different classes, so maybe you are approaching it from a different angle, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. On actual Mage gameplay, I actually find the Secrets Mage to be reasonable against Hunter - Flare doesn't really counter Counterspell, which allows you to keep multiple secrets on board. Meanwhile, Secrets Mage demolishes any midrange decks and is also solid against control, so there is an upside. The decisive downside is actually the Zoolock matchup rather than Hunter, as Zoo just crushes you with tempo, which the Mage deck absolutely needs. The other variant of Mage, the Giants Mage, is piloted to legend by Duckwingface and Hyped every season, so it will take more than a sweeping statement to dismiss it. To take a balanced view, I will freely say that I don't believe Freeze Mage is a viable ladder deck with all the Hunters and Warriors around, although in tournaments it still can be good. The point here is that some Mage builds actually have a reasonable Hunter matchup, even if the overall winrate shows a terrible one-sided matchup between the two classes (from hearthstat data).
On the Miracle Rogue, yeah you are right that there are no finishers. I would personally run a finisher myself (I prefer the Deckhand + Faceless version), so I guess stylistically we are in agreement. However, I also believe the lack of finishers in some versions of Miracle is more a stylistic choice after Leeroy Jenkins got nerfed. On Liquidhearth and ihearthU, there are articles of Miracle Rogue decks without any finishers but which are still run in tournaments by the top players. The power of the Rogue deck comes from the Gadgetzan Auctioneer, and with card and board advantage you can definitely piece together the damage easily. Between two Cold Bloods and the Assassin's Blade, not to mention two Conceals, lethal is not difficult to set-up once the draw mechanic gets going. I would still run a finisher and as would you, but what I'm saying is that not running is a stylistic choice and not necessarily a mistake.
You can see my preferred version of Miracle in my deck lists I have in my profile.
Look, I apologise for my comments and any offense it caused. I guess I would just like to see some good reasoning on the decks the OP would like to play (like you posted just then) than just saying that X class shouldn't be played.
Peace.
Thank you guys for your comments - i read them all and i think i will make some changes - i did changed sen'jins for violet teachers and its much better - since leeroy is 5 mana i don't like "finisher" miracle, i prefer more control play, don't know maybe this is bad :P.
I don't know what changes about druid - i think like every card is important here, i heard spectral knights/double combo version sucks in ladder and is good only in tournaments is it truth?
I like my priest as it is - of course sometimes Ysera can be painful vs Hunter/Zoo but overall is fine - maybe i will try Deathreattle this month will see (especially when new cards comes - this will change meta drastically).
As Mage - it's my "main" class, i have almost 500 wins in rankeds by her, i know hunters can counter me easily but... to be honest i have not bad win/lose ratio vs them: 40/60% vs Hunter, 44/56% vs Zoo - so overall when i meet more control decks is fine i guess :P
Legends:
- Season 14 [May 2015] - Mech Mage
- Season 17 [August 2015] - Combo Druid
You absolutely need a Bloodmage Thalnos in your Rogue. I would remove a Cold Blood / Conceal / Earthen Ring Farseer / Sen'jin Shieldmasta for it.