Hello, I´ve been building and testing shaman decks for a while now and Far Sight caught my eye. Shamans have few ways to get more draws out and this card seemed underwheling to me at first but Ive been thinking about it and it could be rather strong.
My question is, is the mana cost drop permanent or for the turn. Meaning, if I use it on turn 3 and get a 4 mana card, can I cast that card on tunr 8 for 1 mana? By the wording I could say that is how it works but want to make sure.
yes it's perminant you can get a 9 cost minion on turn 3 and then be able to play it turn 4 if you have a pint sized summoner already on the board (if not you can play it on turn 6 for 6 cost.)
Thanks for the answers. It seems the cost reduction, as far as I can tell, will remain on the card at least until played. This is just based on tooltip reading though so I might be wrong. As far (sight XD) as the car keeping the cost reduction after being played... I don´t know.
The card itself isn`t so amazing but testing shaman decks around I noticed that they have few ways to draw more cards. Far Sight can be a really strong card if your lucky. I think that if you build a deck with lots of 3-4 mana cost cards you have a big chance of getting a free spell. Also, if you are Overload heavy, drawing something like Bloodlust with it can let you cast that spell as well.
Its not an "omg fotm op" card but its better than I thought it was when I first saw it. If I had a say on the matter I would make it 2 mana instead of 3.
Imho, the card is pretty weak. The permanent reduction enables some lucky draws early game "I'll play that huge card on turn 4", but any other situation simply thins your deck (you don't actually gain any card).
A way to make the card better / more interesting could be to have it cost 3 less, or 5 less if you play it this turn. Basically in the right situation (the card on top of your deck costs 5 or more, but you also have the extra mana to pay for the difference), it could be a free 2 mana this turn, at no card-cost. In other situations it could enable to essentially "pay" for a chunk of your card one turn, and play it the next when you pay the remaining mana.
In its current state, I don't think it really brings anything to a deck apart from thinning it by 2 cards.
First of all, deck thinning is never to be underestimated. The fact that you can get your key cards in your hand makes it really useful, and with the added effect, that it pays for itself on another card. Unless you draw a 1 or 2 MC card, it's worth it, and even then, it's not completely wasted.I'm not saying its mandatory, but when my decks main combo is complete, drawing and deck thinning is the way to go for me, because putting in cards that "might be good" just to fill up my deck results in dead draws.
Think of it as a reverse overload. You pay in one turn, so you dont have to pay in the next. And talking about overlad: if you manage to draw an overload card, that makes it borderline imbalanced. Doomhammer for only 2 mana is no joke.
@Frodobolson: why is it the best card to draw in top deck mode? I mean let's say you're being swarmed and you need a Lightning storm. What is better about drawing Far Sight into Lightning storm, instead of Lightning Storm directly? What about if you need Lava burst, and you get Far Sight into Lava Burst instead? You've lost one mana in the process.
@Ferrarista: I'm ok with the deck thinning value, but I wouldn't overvalue it either. It's 2 cards over 30, which means it's the same as 4 over 60 (which is a typical M:tG ratio). It's there, it's an argument. It's just not a massive one. I hope we can reconcile our views on that. :)
Second, you say Doomhammer for 2 mana is no joke. But it's not 2 mana. It's 5. 3 from Far Sight, 2 from the cheaper DH. And that's only if you've top-decked DH. If the hammer sits in your hand, and you get something not useful at that precise moment, you've essentially used 3 mana up for a cheaper spell some time later in the game. Doesn't seem that great to me. Let me give an example: I think we can all agree that Lightning Storm is a potentially fantastic spell that can turn the game around. And so is Ancestral Spirit in combo with a great minion. So, you're going to put cards like this in your deck, because they're awesome. And if you don't like either of those, then please, humour me and think of another example of a fantastic card that needs circumstances to be effective. If those circumstances are not there at the moment of your Far Sight... you draw Ancestral Spirit, and you only have a 2/2 spellpower... You draw Storm and the opponent has only got a 4/4 on the board, etc. You'll have wasted a turn to give yourself a cheaper spell later. Imho? Not good enough to justify the small advantage of deck thinning.
I really dont want to be rude, but this reasoning is fucked up as hell. With the same logic every time I draw a card and it's not good at the moment it should be thrown out and it's a bad card. And Novice engineer shouldn't be played in any deck, because if it doesnt draw an instantly useful card, then it's worthless and it's body is worse than other 2 drops. Or you have a great solution, where every time you draw a card, you get perfect draws?
If I play Aracane intellect on turn 3, get a 5 MC and a 7 MC card, it's unlucky, but at least for the next 2 turns I get to draw something else, and in future turns I have more options. This game isn't decided in 1 turn
No "rudeness" here. I must have mis-communicated. In essence, what FS gives you is:
- you use up 3 mana.
- you replace your card with a random one that costs 3 mana less.
My point is not that every card should be useful every time. My point is that if, on turn 3, you have Farsight, and, say, a 2 mana minion (say the 3/2 Raptor), then I would argue that Far sight is a risky play. Why?
Scenario 1: you play the raptor. You have a 3/2, which makes sense at this time. Far sight is in your hand.
Scenario 2: you play Far Sight. You get something useful to cast next turn, like a 6 or 7 mana minion. Great stuff. Awesome.
Scenario 3: you play Far Sight. You get something that is not useful now, and not useful next turn to accelerate tempo. Say, you get a Lightning Storm. Yes, you'll be able to play it for free in a few turns, when it's the right moment. But on turn 3, you have replaced your card with another one, used up all your mana, and produced no threat. I think we can both agree that's a pretty bad turn 3, hence the "risky" move.
So, does that mean you want to save FS for later stages in the game then? Why not, but then you can't really benefit from the tempo acceleration (the reverse overload effect you successfully described earlier).
I can completely agree, that it's quite risky for early game, but mid-late game it shines. Just because it's a 3 drop doesnt mean it has to be played on turn 3. And late game it can be good as well, you reduce the cost of a a card, and play let's say an 8MC card and a 5 MC card in the same turn. A very hypotethical scenario, you have Drawn a Lava surge with far Sight, but didnt use it yet, because you were waiting for Malygos, you draw it, play it, then bam Lava Surge for 10 damage. Normally you couldn't do that in the same turn, now you can.
Overall, it's situational, like a coinflip, but not hard to combo, and if played in the right time it can do wonders.
Far sight is just complex to theorycrafting, since it impact a duel in very different ways. It allows great tempo manipulation, so i tend to love it, but the tempo could be with or against you depend on what you draw and how's the board at that time.
I'll try it for sure in my shaman aggro deck, i think many many duels are necessary to found if it's worth or not.
@Frodobolson: why is it the best card to draw in top deck mode? I mean let's say you're being swarmed and you need a Lightning storm. What is better about drawing Far Sight into Lightning storm, instead of Lightning Storm directly? What about if you need Lava burst, and you get Far Sight into Lava Burst instead? You've lost one mana in the process.
Because your chances to draw Lighting Storm are higher when Far Sight is in the deck. Or to draw the card you need. Is exactly like playing with your 28 best cards when on top decking mode. Also if you draw a card you don't need and also can't play that turn, produces the potential of better combos on the next turns while also being closer in the deck to the cards you really need.
Fair enough. :)
I guess the question is whether or not the 28-card deck benefit outweighs the potentially unfortunate situations it can put you in.
i would agree, should an aggro shaman come into the meta, this card will gain value, as it will allow to draw into the cards you need, this is of course past turn 5 or 6, where you should be either winning or losing the game at that point. much like other class cards, if you are winning it will most likely push you that much closer, if you are losing this card really does almost nothing, as it does not conserve mana, any card you draw would have been playable on the turn you used far sight, in a losing situation, this card simply limits the options your deck has to come back and win. in a hyper aggro deck this would be a very powerful card, as you are looking to win early in the game, and having 30 cards is usually not necessary, so far sight thins your deck, getting you better access to the cards you need and possibly gives a big creature to play early, though this is the lesser of two situations, more likely is it will let you play something like argent commander and reckless rocketeer ( leeroy) on the same turn. in the case of leeroy you will have enough mana left to double rockbiter or windfury.
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Hello, I´ve been building and testing shaman decks for a while now and Far Sight caught my eye. Shamans have few ways to get more draws out and this card seemed underwheling to me at first but Ive been thinking about it and it could be rather strong.
My question is, is the mana cost drop permanent or for the turn. Meaning, if I use it on turn 3 and get a 4 mana card, can I cast that card on tunr 8 for 1 mana? By the wording I could say that is how it works but want to make sure.
yes it's perminant you can get a 9 cost minion on turn 3 and then be able to play it turn 4 if you have a pint sized summoner already on the board (if not you can play it on turn 6 for 6 cost.)
Let me change your mind
Thanks for the answers. It seems the cost reduction, as far as I can tell, will remain on the card at least until played. This is just based on tooltip reading though so I might be wrong. As far (sight XD) as the car keeping the cost reduction after being played... I don´t know.
The card itself isn`t so amazing but testing shaman decks around I noticed that they have few ways to draw more cards. Far Sight can be a really strong card if your lucky. I think that if you build a deck with lots of 3-4 mana cost cards you have a big chance of getting a free spell. Also, if you are Overload heavy, drawing something like Bloodlust with it can let you cast that spell as well.
Its not an "omg fotm op" card but its better than I thought it was when I first saw it. If I had a say on the matter I would make it 2 mana instead of 3.
Imho, the card is pretty weak. The permanent reduction enables some lucky draws early game "I'll play that huge card on turn 4", but any other situation simply thins your deck (you don't actually gain any card).
A way to make the card better / more interesting could be to have it cost 3 less, or 5 less if you play it this turn. Basically in the right situation (the card on top of your deck costs 5 or more, but you also have the extra mana to pay for the difference), it could be a free 2 mana this turn, at no card-cost. In other situations it could enable to essentially "pay" for a chunk of your card one turn, and play it the next when you pay the remaining mana.
In its current state, I don't think it really brings anything to a deck apart from thinning it by 2 cards.
First of all, deck thinning is never to be underestimated. The fact that you can get your key cards in your hand makes it really useful, and with the added effect, that it pays for itself on another card. Unless you draw a 1 or 2 MC card, it's worth it, and even then, it's not completely wasted. I'm not saying its mandatory, but when my decks main combo is complete, drawing and deck thinning is the way to go for me, because putting in cards that "might be good" just to fill up my deck results in dead draws.
Think of it as a reverse overload. You pay in one turn, so you dont have to pay in the next. And talking about overlad: if you manage to draw an overload card, that makes it borderline imbalanced. Doomhammer for only 2 mana is no joke.
@Frodobolson: why is it the best card to draw in top deck mode? I mean let's say you're being swarmed and you need a Lightning storm. What is better about drawing Far Sight into Lightning storm, instead of Lightning Storm directly? What about if you need Lava burst, and you get Far Sight into Lava Burst instead? You've lost one mana in the process.
@Ferrarista: I'm ok with the deck thinning value, but I wouldn't overvalue it either. It's 2 cards over 30, which means it's the same as 4 over 60 (which is a typical M:tG ratio). It's there, it's an argument. It's just not a massive one. I hope we can reconcile our views on that. :)
Second, you say Doomhammer for 2 mana is no joke. But it's not 2 mana. It's 5. 3 from Far Sight, 2 from the cheaper DH. And that's only if you've top-decked DH. If the hammer sits in your hand, and you get something not useful at that precise moment, you've essentially used 3 mana up for a cheaper spell some time later in the game. Doesn't seem that great to me. Let me give an example: I think we can all agree that Lightning Storm is a potentially fantastic spell that can turn the game around. And so is Ancestral Spirit in combo with a great minion. So, you're going to put cards like this in your deck, because they're awesome. And if you don't like either of those, then please, humour me and think of another example of a fantastic card that needs circumstances to be effective. If those circumstances are not there at the moment of your Far Sight... you draw Ancestral Spirit, and you only have a 2/2 spellpower... You draw Storm and the opponent has only got a 4/4 on the board, etc. You'll have wasted a turn to give yourself a cheaper spell later. Imho? Not good enough to justify the small advantage of deck thinning.
I really dont want to be rude, but this reasoning is fucked up as hell. With the same logic every time I draw a card and it's not good at the moment it should be thrown out and it's a bad card. And Novice engineer shouldn't be played in any deck, because if it doesnt draw an instantly useful card, then it's worthless and it's body is worse than other 2 drops. Or you have a great solution, where every time you draw a card, you get perfect draws?
If I play Aracane intellect on turn 3, get a 5 MC and a 7 MC card, it's unlucky, but at least for the next 2 turns I get to draw something else, and in future turns I have more options. This game isn't decided in 1 turn
No "rudeness" here. I must have mis-communicated. In essence, what FS gives you is:
- you use up 3 mana.
- you replace your card with a random one that costs 3 mana less.
My point is not that every card should be useful every time. My point is that if, on turn 3, you have Farsight, and, say, a 2 mana minion (say the 3/2 Raptor), then I would argue that Far sight is a risky play. Why?
Scenario 1: you play the raptor. You have a 3/2, which makes sense at this time. Far sight is in your hand.
Scenario 2: you play Far Sight. You get something useful to cast next turn, like a 6 or 7 mana minion. Great stuff. Awesome.
Scenario 3: you play Far Sight. You get something that is not useful now, and not useful next turn to accelerate tempo. Say, you get a Lightning Storm. Yes, you'll be able to play it for free in a few turns, when it's the right moment. But on turn 3, you have replaced your card with another one, used up all your mana, and produced no threat. I think we can both agree that's a pretty bad turn 3, hence the "risky" move.
So, does that mean you want to save FS for later stages in the game then? Why not, but then you can't really benefit from the tempo acceleration (the reverse overload effect you successfully described earlier).
What do you think?
I can completely agree, that it's quite risky for early game, but mid-late game it shines. Just because it's a 3 drop doesnt mean it has to be played on turn 3. And late game it can be good as well, you reduce the cost of a a card, and play let's say an 8MC card and a 5 MC card in the same turn. A very hypotethical scenario, you have Drawn a Lava surge with far Sight, but didnt use it yet, because you were waiting for Malygos, you draw it, play it, then bam Lava Surge for 10 damage. Normally you couldn't do that in the same turn, now you can.
Overall, it's situational, like a coinflip, but not hard to combo, and if played in the right time it can do wonders.
Far sight is just complex to theorycrafting, since it impact a duel in very different ways. It allows great tempo manipulation, so i tend to love it, but the tempo could be with or against you depend on what you draw and how's the board at that time.
I'll try it for sure in my shaman aggro deck, i think many many duels are necessary to found if it's worth or not.
Fair enough. :)
I guess the question is whether or not the 28-card deck benefit outweighs the potentially unfortunate situations it can put you in.
i would agree, should an aggro shaman come into the meta, this card will gain value, as it will allow to draw into the cards you need, this is of course past turn 5 or 6, where you should be either winning or losing the game at that point. much like other class cards, if you are winning it will most likely push you that much closer, if you are losing this card really does almost nothing, as it does not conserve mana, any card you draw would have been playable on the turn you used far sight, in a losing situation, this card simply limits the options your deck has to come back and win. in a hyper aggro deck this would be a very powerful card, as you are looking to win early in the game, and having 30 cards is usually not necessary, so far sight thins your deck, getting you better access to the cards you need and possibly gives a big creature to play early, though this is the lesser of two situations, more likely is it will let you play something like argent commander and reckless rocketeer ( leeroy) on the same turn. in the case of leeroy you will have enough mana left to double rockbiter or windfury.