You seem to be confusing fairness with randomness.
Arena is 100% fair; each player entering the arena draft has precisely the same probability of drawing a particular card as every other.
The draft is fair, the matchups aren't. I've gone 0-3 and lost 3 due to legendary's in their decks, whereas I've gone 12-1 and never seen a legendary played against me (but had one of my own that was the MVP of the run).
Arena is not fair. It's RNG piled on top of RNG piled on top of RNG (RNG of which classes you get, which cards you get to choose from [not just the quality], which classes your opponents are, what your card draw during the game is like and finally RNG of certain cards [E.G. Mad bomber only hitting you for an entire arena run]).
Sadly Blizzard is going to do nothing about it because they have a price tag of $1.50 attached to it. THEY WANT ARENA TO BE UNFAIR.
If blizz really wanted arena to be fair (or more fair), they would have some sort of algorithm that chooses cards randomly based on certain values and gives the possibility of getting a deck with similar values to other decks (assuming you pick the right cards). I've also heard suggestions about broadening the amount of cards you can choose from or giving you all 90 at once, ect..).
IMO, Getting a certain amount of fixed quality cards would be more FUN. Most players don't have all the cards in the game and being able to choose from some of the more rare epics/legendaries would be fun. I literally have no epics/legendary for Paladin in constructed and would love to be able to play a bit more with some of the class expert cards, but because of the RNG factor I rarely get to (even though I pick paladin every time I can).
So do you think they should also modify the shuffler so that you draw the cards in a fairer manner. Because it's like totally unfair if the opponent topdecks what they need, and you don't...
Complaining about this being "unfair" is the same as complaining about it being unfair in a game of D&D if the monster rolls a 20 and you roll a 1.
Everyone has the same probability of drawing the various cards. It's fair in that respect. If you think it's not fair if someone else rolls better than you, then you need to get a grip.
The best arena decks have no epics or legendaries at all..
The cards you need are the value class specifics like: Flamestrike, Fireball, Poly, Hex, Lightning bolt, Fire elemental, Water elemental, Weapons. And best is to have 3 or 4 of all those value cards.
Once as a Shaman I wasn't presented with Hex once. Where is your god now?
Complaining about this being "unfair" is the same as complaining about it being unfair in a game of D&D if the monster rolls a 20 and you roll a 1.
Everyone has the same probability of drawing the various cards. It's fair in that respect. If you think it's not fair if someone else rolls better than you, then you need to get a grip.
In D&D, you only roll once, rather than countless times (your draft/theirs, your class/theirs, your flop/theirs, your in-game RNG/theirs). Yes everyone has the same chance to roll better, but not everyone has to play against the same decks and in that, the issue of fairness in arena Arises. Is having the NFC Probowl team face down the Oakland raiders a fair game? Neither is having a hand with all the best drafts facing off against a hand with terrible drafts.
Honestly, if you can't accept that other people have a different opinion than yours, maybe you should get a grip :P
If Blizzard has messed up your account so that you are unable to get any legendaries or epics, ever, yes, that is not fair.
But most of us have a draft with random cards to choose from, some times I get legends, sometimes epics, sometimes good basic cards, sometimes utter crap. Are you saying everyone should be dealt an equal deck to play with?
2 epics and 1 legendary each is not going to cut it as both legendaries and epics have wildly variable value in arena - whoever gets the good ones will rule.
Or perhaps everyone should just be awarded 3 wins and 3 losses when they click arena button? That would be balanced for everyone.
Accept that each draft is an adventure, sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you fail. If your anger after getting a bad break >> joy when getting a good run then that is your problem, no need to suggest making the game bland for everyone (and still as unbalanced, as long as people get a random draft there will random variance)
@Kroen: Pilleri busted *ss to post all those links. A word of thanks may be in order.
Re: fairness - It's not fair in the sense that every draft is equal. Imagine if you played roulette, and every time you put in $37, you got $36 back. That's not the game. Now yeah, Hearthstone isn't roulette, but the concept of fairness is much the same, except the house cut doesn't necessarily come straight out of your pocket, and player skill can greatly change outcomes.
@Oraculum: "fixed deck" comment earlier in thread - I understand decks will be fixed in Naxxaramas. So hey, eh? Also, there were those Champion Edition MtG thingies a while back - gold border non-tournament-playable decks that were fixed deck lists of what was used in MtG Worlds (I think it was), I dunno, maybe I'll pop in a comment about that in General Discussion. (Now yeah that MtG (Magic: The Gathering) thing isn't Hearthstone, but maybe you'd have some fun with that sort of thing eh?)
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If you see a post that you find objectionable, report it, it helps keep the forum clean. But be aware people are allowed a lot of latitude.
If you find my posts to be rude, objectionable, or whatever, well, I got tired of writing polite TL; DR (Too Long, Didn't Read) posts at crybaby whiners. So now I just make it short and nasty.
If you find that funny, well and good. If you find that sad, that's even better.
From what I hear, there are certain challenges in Naxxaramas you need to beat to unlock cards. (yes, yes, you nod, you know).
Apparently you won't be able to build your own deck to beat those challenges though - you'll have to use different classes to beat various challenges, each time using decks Blizzard built that you can't change.
On the plus side, that means you won't get stuck in those challenges because you don't have X uber library of cards, which is nice.
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If you see a post that you find objectionable, report it, it helps keep the forum clean. But be aware people are allowed a lot of latitude.
If you find my posts to be rude, objectionable, or whatever, well, I got tired of writing polite TL; DR (Too Long, Didn't Read) posts at crybaby whiners. So now I just make it short and nasty.
If you find that funny, well and good. If you find that sad, that's even better.
If you see a post that you find objectionable, report it, it helps keep the forum clean. But be aware people are allowed a lot of latitude.
If you find my posts to be rude, objectionable, or whatever, well, I got tired of writing polite TL; DR (Too Long, Didn't Read) posts at crybaby whiners. So now I just make it short and nasty.
If you find that funny, well and good. If you find that sad, that's even better.
Actually, a lot of the epics and even the legendaries are very bad. I'd rather have just a solid deck with multiple good commons and rares than a bunch of epics or legendaries.
EDIT: Some additional information on the luck vs skill and useful guides for arena for anyone interested
I'm so glad there is prejudice against playing hunter/zoo/[insert FotM deck here]. People like that make the life so much easier for those of us who play to win.
I'd rather have just a solid deck with multiple good commons and rares than a bunch of epics or legendaries.
I've played Shaman and wasn't given Hex as a choice. Same for Mage and Polymorph and another time even Fireball. Also Paladin without Consecration. Also no Blessing of Kings either. Also, I kid you not, I once had a deck of 27 commons and 3 rares. Where is your god now?
I don't know why I even bother though. It's obvious most of you have been drinking Blizzard's kool-aid.
Complaining about this being "unfair" is the same as complaining about it being unfair in a game of D&D if the monster rolls a 20 and you roll a 1.
Everyone has the same probability of drawing the various cards. It's fair in that respect. If you think it's not fair if someone else rolls better than you, then you need to get a grip.
In D&D, you only roll once, rather than countless times (your draft/theirs, your class/theirs, your flop/theirs, your in-game RNG/theirs). Yes everyone has the same chance to roll better, but not everyone has to play against the same decks and in that, the issue of fairness in arena Arises. Is having the NFC Probowl team face down the Oakland raiders a fair game? Neither is having a hand with all the best drafts facing off against a hand with terrible drafts.
Honestly, if you can't accept that other people have a different opinion than yours, maybe you should get a grip :P
When I played D&D I rolled dice all the time... Roll to hit, roll to succeed, roll to make a saving throw... Not sure what game you were playing, but it sure wasn't D&D.
I'd rather have just a solid deck with multiple good commons and rares than a bunch of epics or legendaries.
I've played Shaman and wasn't given Hex as a choice. Same for Mage and Polymorph and another time even Fireball. Also Paladin without Consecration. Also no Blessing of Kings either. Also, I kid you not, I once had a deck of 27 commons and 3 rares. Where is your god now?
I don't know why I even bother though. It's obvious most of you have been drinking Blizzard's kool-aid.
I couldn't care less if I was playing mage and didn't get a polymorph. Not getting any fireballs is more annoying, but you can compensate if you get other good cards. And you don't need to get 12 wins with every deck, getting to 7 is achievable even with a very mediocre deck.
Also, I think every 5 picks you get a guaranteed rare+, so I'm not sure you can get 27 commons and 3 rares (and btw, some of the rare choices are so terrible I'd rather have a solid common over them)
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I'm so glad there is prejudice against playing hunter/zoo/[insert FotM deck here]. People like that make the life so much easier for those of us who play to win.
I'd rather have just a solid deck with multiple good commons and rares than a bunch of epics or legendaries.
I've played Shaman and wasn't given Hex as a choice. Same for Mage and Polymorph and another time even Fireball. Also Paladin without Consecration. Also no Blessing of Kings either. Also, I kid you not, I once had a deck of 27 commons and 3 rares. Where is your god now?
I don't know why I even bother though. It's obvious most of you have been drinking Blizzard's kool-aid.
I could get 8wins consistantly with a deck of 27 commons and 3 rares. You're bad, which is a hard problem to overcome.
The cards you mention "not getting" aren't cards those classes need to succeed.
I'd suggest just buying packs for you. That way its always fair.
Explain to OP how buying decks is fair - "I heard another player got an epic and a legendary in same pack, and I haven't gotten more than 2 epics ever, and just a crap legendary. NO FAIR!!!
I have played a lot of arena and I understand all the frustrations. I have gone many 10+ runs, but some times I face decks that have a better cards than a constructed deck, I have faced a druid deck with Ysera, Ragnaros, cairne and Cenarius, both of the ancients and 3 Swipe...that's not random anymore.
But I have had such madness myself as well, so I can't really complain about it, but I have noticed though, that when you get a legendary for example, that the other cards you can pick are very high quality as well. Just the same as when you get a card pack with a legendary in it, it mostly has epics and/or other goldens as well...
Wow. I almost never get legendaries, although I did got one in a few arenas, but never ever more than 1.
I wish I got 3 legendaries... even if I lose, at least I have fun. Better to lose with fun cards that I can't afford outside the arena than with commons..
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The draft is fair, the matchups aren't. I've gone 0-3 and lost 3 due to legendary's in their decks, whereas I've gone 12-1 and never seen a legendary played against me (but had one of my own that was the MVP of the run).
So do you think they should also modify the shuffler so that you draw the cards in a fairer manner. Because it's like totally unfair if the opponent topdecks what they need, and you don't...
Complaining about this being "unfair" is the same as complaining about it being unfair in a game of D&D if the monster rolls a 20 and you roll a 1.
Everyone has the same probability of drawing the various cards. It's fair in that respect. If you think it's not fair if someone else rolls better than you, then you need to get a grip.
Once as a Shaman I wasn't presented with Hex once. Where is your god now?
In D&D, you only roll once, rather than countless times (your draft/theirs, your class/theirs, your flop/theirs, your in-game RNG/theirs). Yes everyone has the same chance to roll better, but not everyone has to play against the same decks and in that, the issue of fairness in arena Arises. Is having the NFC Probowl team face down the Oakland raiders a fair game? Neither is having a hand with all the best drafts facing off against a hand with terrible drafts.
Honestly, if you can't accept that other people have a different opinion than yours, maybe you should get a grip :P
Its more likely you're just a bad player. Actually you stating that legendaries,etc. are what you need to win more or less proves this to be true.
Physika #1165
If Blizzard has messed up your account so that you are unable to get any legendaries or epics, ever, yes, that is not fair.
But most of us have a draft with random cards to choose from, some times I get legends, sometimes epics, sometimes good basic cards, sometimes utter crap. Are you saying everyone should be dealt an equal deck to play with?
2 epics and 1 legendary each is not going to cut it as both legendaries and epics have wildly variable value in arena - whoever gets the good ones will rule.
Or perhaps everyone should just be awarded 3 wins and 3 losses when they click arena button? That would be balanced for everyone.
Accept that each draft is an adventure, sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you fail. If your anger after getting a bad break >> joy when getting a good run then that is your problem, no need to suggest making the game bland for everyone (and still as unbalanced, as long as people get a random draft there will random variance)
How is it unfair? It's as random for everyone.
@Kroen: Pilleri busted *ss to post all those links. A word of thanks may be in order.
Re: fairness - It's not fair in the sense that every draft is equal. Imagine if you played roulette, and every time you put in $37, you got $36 back. That's not the game. Now yeah, Hearthstone isn't roulette, but the concept of fairness is much the same, except the house cut doesn't necessarily come straight out of your pocket, and player skill can greatly change outcomes.
@Oraculum: "fixed deck" comment earlier in thread - I understand decks will be fixed in Naxxaramas. So hey, eh? Also, there were those Champion Edition MtG thingies a while back - gold border non-tournament-playable decks that were fixed deck lists of what was used in MtG Worlds (I think it was), I dunno, maybe I'll pop in a comment about that in General Discussion. (Now yeah that MtG (Magic: The Gathering) thing isn't Hearthstone, but maybe you'd have some fun with that sort of thing eh?)
If you see a post that you find objectionable, report it, it helps keep the forum clean. But be aware people are allowed a lot of latitude.
If you find my posts to be rude, objectionable, or whatever, well, I got tired of writing polite TL; DR (Too Long, Didn't Read) posts at crybaby whiners. So now I just make it short and nasty.
If you find that funny, well and good. If you find that sad, that's even better.
What do you mean "decks will be fixed in Naxxaramas"?
Also yeah, tnx Pilleri.
From what I hear, there are certain challenges in Naxxaramas you need to beat to unlock cards. (yes, yes, you nod, you know).
Apparently you won't be able to build your own deck to beat those challenges though - you'll have to use different classes to beat various challenges, each time using decks Blizzard built that you can't change.
On the plus side, that means you won't get stuck in those challenges because you don't have X uber library of cards, which is nice.
If you see a post that you find objectionable, report it, it helps keep the forum clean. But be aware people are allowed a lot of latitude.
If you find my posts to be rude, objectionable, or whatever, well, I got tired of writing polite TL; DR (Too Long, Didn't Read) posts at crybaby whiners. So now I just make it short and nasty.
If you find that funny, well and good. If you find that sad, that's even better.
Unlock cards? you mean like extra basic cards?
Naxxaramas event to unlock Naxxaramas cards.
If you see a post that you find objectionable, report it, it helps keep the forum clean. But be aware people are allowed a lot of latitude.
If you find my posts to be rude, objectionable, or whatever, well, I got tired of writing polite TL; DR (Too Long, Didn't Read) posts at crybaby whiners. So now I just make it short and nasty.
If you find that funny, well and good. If you find that sad, that's even better.
Actually, a lot of the epics and even the legendaries are very bad. I'd rather have just a solid deck with multiple good commons and rares than a bunch of epics or legendaries.
EDIT: Some additional information on the luck vs skill and useful guides for arena for anyone interested
http://ihearthu.com/vivafringes-guide-to-arena/ (some of the card rankings are a bit outdated, but there is some excellent general advice)
http://www.liquidhearth.com/forum/arena-strategy/2345-massans-midrange-arena-rogue
http://www.liquidhearth.com/guides/arena-tier-list
I'm so glad there is prejudice against playing hunter/zoo/[insert FotM deck here]. People like that make the life so much easier for those of us who play to win.
I've played Shaman and wasn't given Hex as a choice.
Same for Mage and Polymorph and another time even Fireball.
Also Paladin without Consecration. Also no Blessing of Kings either.
Also, I kid you not, I once had a deck of 27 commons and 3 rares.
Where is your god now?
I don't know why I even bother though. It's obvious most of you have been drinking Blizzard's kool-aid.
When I played D&D I rolled dice all the time... Roll to hit, roll to succeed, roll to make a saving throw... Not sure what game you were playing, but it sure wasn't D&D.
I couldn't care less if I was playing mage and didn't get a polymorph. Not getting any fireballs is more annoying, but you can compensate if you get other good cards. And you don't need to get 12 wins with every deck, getting to 7 is achievable even with a very mediocre deck.
Also, I think every 5 picks you get a guaranteed rare+, so I'm not sure you can get 27 commons and 3 rares (and btw, some of the rare choices are so terrible I'd rather have a solid common over them)
I'm so glad there is prejudice against playing hunter/zoo/[insert FotM deck here]. People like that make the life so much easier for those of us who play to win.
I could get 8wins consistantly with a deck of 27 commons and 3 rares. You're bad, which is a hard problem to overcome.
The cards you mention "not getting" aren't cards those classes need to succeed.
I'd suggest just buying packs for you. That way its always fair.
Physika #1165
Explain to OP how buying decks is fair - "I heard another player got an epic and a legendary in same pack, and I haven't gotten more than 2 epics ever, and just a crap legendary. NO FAIR!!!
Wow. I almost never get legendaries, although I did got one in a few arenas, but never ever more than 1.
I wish I got 3 legendaries... even if I lose, at least I have fun. Better to lose with fun cards that I can't afford outside the arena than with commons..