Feedback: Personally i would like more commenting on the actual gameplay and how cards interact with each other, and less chit chat about beta giveaway theories.
Btw i was wondering, how come was druid banned for that tournament?
Maybe i didn't try the right druid deckbuild but they dont seem that strong compared to shamans atm.
From what i can tell after trying different decks the top deck atm seems to be sham, then in the top range there's druid mid-top range there's rogue and lock and hunter maybe mage too, and then there's priest warrior and paladin. Although obviously that list isnt absolute, it just seems that sham is super strong atm especially compared to priest and pal.
when the tournament banned druids lots of cockatrice players stoped playing shamans. I'll put it this way when a druid came as an opponent you knew you'd either die before turn 5 or if he got bad draws you had a small chance to win just barely. I'm sure if you'd seen some of the decks druid can make you'd be amazed as well.
edit: the above statement was exaggrating druids are powerful but only some decks are that powerful and only vs some decks. Please if you are new to this game don't assume being a druid is a 99% victory condition. If I had to give a number (preapeating: I as in just my opinion) on the power of every class they would all fall in a 40-60 range with shamans and druids slightly above 50 and some other classes just barely below 50.
You're the one to talk rea your druid was the example that came to my mind when I wrote that. you beat me at turn 5 with 30 life once. And you beat me something close to that at the tournament as well. But if you want lets say its because you are amazing and has nothing to with druid being op which is not entirely wrong or right tbh.
The statement of druids being op wasn't an exaggeration. If I were to exaggrate I would say all druid decks win before turn 5 all the time. To be fair though I will state facts instead and say I only won vs a druid twice and both times were really close. And the times I lost were usually while the druid had more than 20 life, had board advantage and card advantage. But I'm sure if you wanted to, you can say that I'm a bad player or that one person's experience doesn't make a general statistic which are both valid statements that arguably might be correct to some degree. But it's not just me saying this. I play druid decks from time to time and so far I never lost with a druid deck. You tell me thats exagerating and I can't prove it isn't so there is no point trying to say so. Though I can tell you this there were two occasions when I played and won with a druid than offered a rematch I heard my opponents say this twice "yes but only if you're not playing a druid, they are op.".
And please don't think this is a "omg druids op!!!! nerf them!!!" sort of baby cry. It's not, I do not want druids to be nerfed or changed. I would much rather have other classes brought up to a druids level if there is such level. To be honost I don't understand the reason why druids are op or at least considered op. They seem fine to me; but somehow me and others tend to lose more matches to druids then other classes and thats something I can't explain why it's just is but it's not exaggeration. Maybe this entire post explaining why it's not an exaggeration might be an exaggeration though :D
But yh that spesific the quote you have of mine was an exaggeration. Hopefully this covers that. I didn't want to write something this long to explain myself at the time it just seemed better to write that particular sentence. Though I should also say that particular sentence was not mine. I heard that as a quoto from either forsen or sar I'm not entirely sure it could have been someone else.
Their spells are not as good in killing single targets as the other classes ones but awesome when it comes to clean the board.
Yeah, I mean they dont have a 1 MC instant remove spell #sarcasm
I see their OP-ness in two things: 1. Gaining mana cristals even if only temporarly is just that good, since it enables you to use combos/high manacost minions earlyer than your opponent could properly react. You'll never be behind tempo-wise with druid. 2. Blizzard underestimates the strenght of the option. Every card, that offers options, has costing that mactches these individual options, but together on the same card they get imbalanced, because you can play them as it's the worst for your opponent. For example you can tackle your opponent with charge or stop him with taunt with one card that offers both of these effects.
I don't knnow how to properly balance the class, I'm sure increasing the manacosts on all cards would be dumb and I definitely dont want to nerf the class to the abyss, but so much versatility and tempo equals power.
starfall 5mana 5dmg or 2 aoe to all enemies - fireball 5 mana 6dmg - consecration 4mana 2dmg to all enemies This one is trrue
power of the wild 2mana +1/+1 for ur minions or 3/2 panther - removed priest spell gave +1/+1 to all minions for 1 mana - 2mana 3/2 + beast borderline, since priest spell has been removed, and the other half is the same
wrath 2mana 3dmg or 1dmg+draw1 - shiv 1mana 1dmg draw1 - lightning bolt 3dmg 1mana 1overload 1 mana + 1 overload is basicaly 2 mana, not that different, shiv part is right
keeper of the grove 4mana 2/4 silence or 2dmg - spellbreaker 4mana 4/3 silence The toal body is 1 less, hardly a difference for an option
druid of the claw 5mana 4/4 charge or 4/6 taunt - korkron elite 4mana 4/3 charge about the same as the previous one, 1 body and an option for 1 mana
You lose card advantage in both cases. I don't see Naturalize competing with cards like Polymorph, Hex or Deadly Shot. 3 Cards down for a kill is a major disadvantage. Pumping something out with Innervate might be good but you are also losing a card. I don't see the Imbalance there.
The rest has been answered by Rea. Each effect on it's own is at least 1 MC more expensive than the pure card so you are paying for your flexibility.
Deadly shot is random, and cost 3 mc, hex is 3 manacost as well and leaves a taunt minion, while wolymorph is 4 mc and leaves a 1/1 minion. I'm not saying Neutralise is way better, I'm saying, it's not that bad card, even if giving my enemy 2 cards is bad, for a finisher, or in exchange for let's say deathwing as for the card loss with the + mana - clearly you haven played against a druid who could summonswarms of enemies or strong legendaries by turn 4. The amount of cards it takes to take those down makes up for the druids loss.
I think choose one style of druid is very similar to atonement healing in wow. You healby dealing dmg. The heal is not as much as a healer and the dmg isn't as much as a dps but it's still fun and you get to do both heal and dmg pretty decently sometimes.
point is: almost no "choose" option is as good as the "pure" counterpart
I can completely agree with that.
What I wanted to point out is, that their drawbacks mostly come in mana cost, which isn't a problem for a Druid. In the end it comes down to this: option for increased manacost + mana generation = option that no one else has, and the non optional cards are as good as any other class card, but you have more mana for it.
Will these tourneys continue past launch? I tuned in for your last tourney and very much enjoyed it! I can see how this could be a good start for a "fan-made" e-sport base for Hearthstone. You guys seemed to enjoy yourselves while still being very knowledgeable! :)
Will these tourneys continue past launch? I tuned in for your last tourney and very much enjoyed it! I can see how this could be a good start for a "fan-made" e-sport base for Hearthstone. You guys seemed to enjoy yourselves while still being very knowledgeable! :)
Well first and far most thank you for the compliment we are in fact passionate about growing this aspect of hearthstone (the competitiveness).
We will in fact continue doing these tournaments in beta and post launch as long as there is a demand for it. As of now, people seem to be giving great feedback regarding the tournies/community and being that we are passionate about this game we are driven to make this as big as we can.
In the end our success will be determined by our community.
Noted and already working on it 8).
cheers!
http://www.hearthpwn.com/managrind
Btw i was wondering, how come was druid banned for that tournament?
Maybe i didn't try the right druid deckbuild but they dont seem that strong compared to shamans atm.
From what i can tell after trying different decks the top deck atm seems to be sham, then in the top range there's druid mid-top range there's rogue and lock and hunter maybe mage too, and then there's priest warrior and paladin. Although obviously that list isnt absolute, it just seems that sham is super strong atm especially compared to priest and pal.
when the tournament banned druids lots of cockatrice players stoped playing shamans. I'll put it this way when a druid came as an opponent you knew you'd either die before turn 5 or if he got bad draws you had a small chance to win just barely. I'm sure if you'd seen some of the decks druid can make you'd be amazed as well.
edit: the above statement was exaggrating druids are powerful but only some decks are that powerful and only vs some decks. Please if you are new to this game don't assume being a druid is a 99% victory condition. If I had to give a number (preapeating: I as in just my opinion) on the power of every class they would all fall in a 40-60 range with shamans and druids slightly above 50 and some other classes just barely below 50.
Let me change your mind
You're the one to talk rea your druid was the example that came to my mind when I wrote that. you beat me at turn 5 with 30 life once. And you beat me something close to that at the tournament as well. But if you want lets say its because you are amazing and has nothing to with druid being op which is not entirely wrong or right tbh.
The statement of druids being op wasn't an exaggeration. If I were to exaggrate I would say all druid decks win before turn 5 all the time. To be fair though I will state facts instead and say I only won vs a druid twice and both times were really close. And the times I lost were usually while the druid had more than 20 life, had board advantage and card advantage. But I'm sure if you wanted to, you can say that I'm a bad player or that one person's experience doesn't make a general statistic which are both valid statements that arguably might be correct to some degree. But it's not just me saying this. I play druid decks from time to time and so far I never lost with a druid deck. You tell me thats exagerating and I can't prove it isn't so there is no point trying to say so. Though I can tell you this there were two occasions when I played and won with a druid than offered a rematch I heard my opponents say this twice "yes but only if you're not playing a druid, they are op.".
And please don't think this is a "omg druids op!!!! nerf them!!!" sort of baby cry. It's not, I do not want druids to be nerfed or changed. I would much rather have other classes brought up to a druids level if there is such level. To be honost I don't understand the reason why druids are op or at least considered op. They seem fine to me; but somehow me and others tend to lose more matches to druids then other classes and thats something I can't explain why it's just is but it's not exaggeration. Maybe this entire post explaining why it's not an exaggeration might be an exaggeration though :D
But yh that spesific the quote you have of mine was an exaggeration. Hopefully this covers that. I didn't want to write something this long to explain myself at the time it just seemed better to write that particular sentence. Though I should also say that particular sentence was not mine. I heard that as a quoto from either forsen or sar I'm not entirely sure it could have been someone else.
Let me change your mind
I know I have some problems expressing myself sometimes thats why some of what I wrote contradicts other stuff that I wrote, I'm sorry about that.
Let me change your mind
Yeah, I mean they dont have a 1 MC instant remove spell #sarcasm
I see their OP-ness in two things:
1. Gaining mana cristals even if only temporarly is just that good, since it enables you to use combos/high manacost minions earlyer than your opponent could properly react. You'll never be behind tempo-wise with druid.
2. Blizzard underestimates the strenght of the option. Every card, that offers options, has costing that mactches these individual options, but together on the same card they get imbalanced, because you can play them as it's the worst for your opponent. For example you can tackle your opponent with charge or stop him with taunt with one card that offers both of these effects.
I don't knnow how to properly balance the class, I'm sure increasing the manacosts on all cards would be dumb and I definitely dont want to nerf the class to the abyss, but so much versatility and tempo equals power.
starfall 5mana 5dmg or 2 aoe to all enemies - fireball 5 mana 6dmg - consecration 4mana 2dmg to all enemies
This one is trrue
power of the wild 2mana +1/+1 for ur minions or 3/2 panther - removed priest spell gave +1/+1 to all minions for 1 mana - 2mana 3/2 + beast
borderline, since priest spell has been removed, and the other half is the same
wrath 2mana 3dmg or 1dmg+draw1 - shiv 1mana 1dmg draw1 - lightning bolt 3dmg 1mana 1overload
1 mana + 1 overload is basicaly 2 mana, not that different, shiv part is right
keeper of the grove 4mana 2/4 silence or 2dmg - spellbreaker 4mana 4/3 silence
The toal body is 1 less, hardly a difference for an option
druid of the claw 5mana 4/4 charge or 4/6 taunt - korkron elite 4mana 4/3 charge
about the same as the previous one, 1 body and an option for 1 mana
Hoiw about the ones that you "conviniently" missed:
Ancient of Lore vs. Guardian of Kings -1healt for an option to draw 2 , +2 healing and can target anything
Ancient of War no taunt minion gets even close to a 5/10 (maybe Earth Elemental, but he costs 5+3), nor there is a non legendary minion with 10/5 for 7 MC (maybe giants, but they need extras)
Nourish the draw part falls in line with http://www.hearthpwn.com/cards/90-sprint and Arcane Intellect, then there is an option for mana crystals
Mark of Nature is actually worse than Blessing of Kings or Blessing of Might as an attack buff, but the taunt and +4 healt part is still no joke
And let's not forget that even if these cards have drawbacks in manacost, we're talking about druid, he doesnt care about manacosts.
Deadly shot is random, and cost 3 mc, hex is 3 manacost as well and leaves a taunt minion, while wolymorph is 4 mc and leaves a 1/1 minion. I'm not saying Neutralise is way better, I'm saying, it's not that bad card, even if giving my enemy 2 cards is bad, for a finisher, or in exchange for let's say deathwing
as for the card loss with the + mana - clearly you haven played against a druid who could summonswarms of enemies or strong legendaries by turn 4. The amount of cards it takes to take those down makes up for the druids loss.
I think choose one style of druid is very similar to atonement healing in wow. You healby dealing dmg. The heal is not as much as a healer and the dmg isn't as much as a dps but it's still fun and you get to do both heal and dmg pretty decently sometimes.
Let me change your mind
I can completely agree with that.
What I wanted to point out is, that their drawbacks mostly come in mana cost, which isn't a problem for a Druid. In the end it comes down to this: option for increased manacost + mana generation = option that no one else has, and the non optional cards are as good as any other class card, but you have more mana for it.
Will these tourneys continue past launch? I tuned in for your last tourney and very much enjoyed it!
I can see how this could be a good start for a "fan-made" e-sport base for Hearthstone. You guys seemed to enjoy yourselves while still being very knowledgeable! :)
Well first and far most thank you for the compliment we are in fact passionate about growing this aspect of hearthstone (the competitiveness).
We will in fact continue doing these tournaments in beta and post launch as long as there is a demand for it. As of now, people seem to be giving great feedback regarding the tournies/community and being that we are passionate about this game we are driven to make this as big as we can.
In the end our success will be determined by our community.
Cheers!
http://www.hearthpwn.com/managrind