Hearthpwn

Quote from Joker111 >>

I want to play enrage warrior but for me to that i need risky skipper and thats in chapter 3. Now for a somehat returning player saving this much amount of gold + saving enought for card packs is insane. I dont want to spend 20 euro for just 1 rare card.

 Well GOOD NEWS!  For that price you actually get a lot more then 1 rare card.

While I agree it's rough to be competitive or even just try new fun decks as they come along as a F2P player, that's just how it is.  If 99% of the adventure doesn't interest you, I can only assume the bulk of the expansion was equally useless.  So why bother spending hard saved gold on a bunch of packs at all?  Just craft as needed and save the gold for what can't be crafted.

Quote from Azdrubael_Vect >>

Zephrys somehow doesn't give u Assassinate btw when u have 5 mana and u need to remove something  big with 4 attack. Zephrys needs a patch and allow us to discover new basic and classic cards from DH with Outcast. For example Zeph usually offers u Earth Shock when u have 1 mana and you want to silence a minion, but he also should offer Consume Magic as an option or Twin Slice at 0 mana when u already got weapon (or not) and u lack of 1 damage (or 2) for lethal or trade. 

No Demon Hunter cards from the basic set have the Outcast mechanic.  Every other Demon Hunter card is not part of basic or classic and will never be offered.

I'm not going to say that anything you could do would guarantee zephyr offers the card you want, but understanding how it works goes a long way.  Bugs aside, if you want a silence effect, try to get to 1 or 0 mana for earth shock or silence, relying on a poly or hex leaves a ton of options for zeph to throw at you. 

Why doesn't he offer hex or poly against teron?  It's a small minion with a deathrattle, so not much of a threat.  Zephyr has no idea what teron's card text says or what his deathrattle will do.  He only knows it has a deathrattle.  Similar to Kalecgos, Zeph  has no idea that it makes your first spell free and as such is unlikely to offer a perfect spell for lethal.

You need to really spell it out for him, which sadly means sometimes settling for a slightly less perfect card is some situations, at least for the moment.

Quote from 3nnu1 >>

they would like to see. So there has to be some people in here from blizzard too.

You must be that kind of people who love to follow their heart instead of their mind in cases like this. Good for you, bro, but I'm not like that. If I am going to accuse someone of something like this, I have to be 100% certain of what I'm talking about, because those are the rules and I would never go against them, especially for my own good and those who I care about. We live in a society of human beings, not monkeys.

This is the language of evasion and supression. The community managers here hate to see conversations about how rigged this game is because it is bad for business. So they continue to engage in the same tactics to shut it down. Name calling and denial, same thing over and over. 

 

Imagine if you lived in a society where it was people's job to hide manipulative tactics that prey on children....what a life your living......

Denial of what though?  The only so called evidence presented so far are stories of losses and top decks.  OMG, he got the perfect card - when in reality there are often several cards that would have had a similar enough result.  You switched decks after facing your worst matchup 3 times in a row only to play your current decks worst matchup - well I have switched decks before and continued to play against what I saw before...so why did Blizzard cheat you and not me?

All your theories about how it's rigged can be disproved with very little time investment.  Why is it that you can't present better evidence and theories?

I'm not denying the possibility of blizzard rigging the system in some way.  They almost certainly could if they wanted to.

And this hardly counts as a conversation for rigged game play.  People post there stories while others try to use that story to justify their own bad beat.  If we took everything in just this thread as evidence of rigging, then Blizzard is rigging - Starting Hand, mulligans, every draw after that(got to make the game feel competitive after all), every single randomly generated effect, who wins, who has losing/winning streaks, who gets to progress through the ranks, who wins tournaments, who gets disconnected(lol at that one, fix your internet kid)...you get the point.

If this isn't ALL happening, why should I give your claims any more credit than the rest?

Been playing this card a decent amount lately between standard and the previous brawl.  My sample size is still quite small overall, but the number of times the same spell has been played twice in a single cast of this spell is quite high.  If this was it, I probably wouldn't linger on it much, but Puzzle Box has also played the same spell as many as 3 times in a cast on at least 3 occasions for me since the expansion went live.

Just curious if anyone else has noticed anything similar.  Prior to AoO release I don't think I ever used it.

Discussion is fine, but the people claiming that any part of system is without a doubt rigged are just salty.

The game has been around for a while now with no clear evidence.  Given how much of it the player base is able to track, it's a little odd that something hasn't been proven yet.

Quote from 3nnu1 >>

Quote from Geoff >>

Quote from Teuuun

Still not even close to a remotely significant sample size. Sorry, but you are just frustrated and therefore biased. Unless you have data from literally hundreds of thousands of games from thousands of players, you are very ignorant to say "something is up".

OP on the other hand might have a point simply due to it being a general one:

1) We know Blizzard/Hearthstone Team (and other companies) has a history of manipulating odds of some things happening in the game, when they were meant to be completely random (heck, even pity timer when opening packs, even though it's a generally good concept, is an example of such manipulation).

2) Thanks to Zephrys we know that Blizzard has ways to affect not only objective metrics (like the amount of Legendaries opened in the packs), but also the gamestate itself. Would it be impossible for Blizzard to implement an algorithm that would affect the cards drawn from the deck or given by a random effects? Zephrys pretty much shows that only if they wanted to - they could.

Now the question is - do they? 

P.S. Remember about tournaments - I know the thread was created in regards to the ranked play, but assuming Blizzard does use some gamestate-affecting algorithms, how does it make the biggest tournaments legit? For example if they wanted a certain person to win Blizzcon (a woman for political purposes or someone from China, because this is where $$$ fly to them or just someone they would consider a good ambassador for their Brand - good looking, charismatic etc.) - do you think it would be hard for them to simply "pick" a winner?

I am just dropping it here, not implying anything.

 As to the question of: Do they? 

1.We know that they can

2. We know that that many games that use microtransactions use all kinds of manipulations to inspire spending,

3, We know that Activision has patented some methods: https://www.kotaku.com.au/2017/10/activision-patents-matchmaking-that-encourages-players-to-buy-microtransactions/

4. We know that corporations exist to make money once they reach the size of blizzard/activision.

5. We know if the data shows that using such tactics increases revenues, Activision has a responsibility to their shareholders to use such tactics.

I could go on but you get the point. It is quite reasonable to assume all aspects of the game are manipulated in such ways. 

 

As to your question about would they fix a tournament? I dunno, a lot of pretty intelligent geeks play this and pay close attention. If something like that were to be proved it would invalidate hearthstone as an E sport and possibly set them up for fraud allegations. 

 

As for the implied question of tournament RNG. Personally, I think the game has at least 3 game states. 

1. Golden: you just crafted a new deck or bought packs and used the cards you opened, your mana and draws will line up perfectly, and if possible you will win. This is the system rewarding desired behavior. I think you can also trigger golden after coming back from a long layoff, the game is trying to draw you back in. 

2. Fun: this is blizzards ideal gamestate. The game itself will try to match you with close games and will give players outs if they exist in their decks and the games will feature as many wild swings as possible. This has been a stated goal of the blizzard design team in interview, they think it is more entertaining and engaging to the player and viewer. I think this is the gamestate where tournaments are played. Everyone remembers the Pavelling book as the prime example of this, but now i think players are quite used to the catch up mechanisms in hearthstone. You have a game on lock down, the opponent keeps topdecking/discovering an out. This is not by chance. I think top players and streamers inherently understand this and take it into account in their decision making.  One thing that held back my gameplay over the years was my years of experience of playing physical MTG where such mechanisms cannot exist and pressing an advantage with aggro was key. In hearthstone, if you press your advantage, you lose because blizzard does not think winning from an advantageous position is fun. 

Hate: this is the game telling you to stop playing or go spend some money. This is game after game of horrible matchups, horrible mulligans and horrible RNG. Anyone who has played this game for multiple long sessions has felt this. If you come on the forums and bitch. People will tell you that it is tilt and that you should stop playing, take a break etc. And there is truth in that, you do play worse when titled. But for years I have avoided tilt by understanding what the game is doing, being perfectly satisfied with the rank 5 floor. If I play for a long stretch (listening to music, tabbed out watching NBA stream etc.) I still observe the same thing. So yeah, it is not all tilt. Tilt does not que you into your worst matchup and give you horrible draws while he gets the nuts. Something else is doing that. 

 This 3 game state system would be easily proven.

Golden State.  Would obviously have to turned off on release day, can't have everyone winning on day 1 after all.  Plus all those people winning, who play the best deck from the previous season with no new cards(later in the year of course) would throw this off.

Fun state.  MTG is not hearthstone.  MTG is great, but it's not the same as Hearthstone.  If you played Hearthstone for years, never treating it as a different game, all those losses do not prove anything about the game being fun or not.  Many tournaments are Streamed with plenty of games being blowouts.  Top players and streamers almost certainly do take into account what cards the opponent would have access to that could turn around the game, that's why they are top players.  They don't ignore years of experience.

Hate state. Just no.  Multiple long sessions WITHOUT playing my worst matchups, WITHOUT having horrible draws and WITHOUT my opponent ever having the nuts would be far more suspicious IMO.  Are you suggesting that if you don't stop or spend money, you will never queue into a favorable matchup again?  Probably not, because that would be very easy to disprove.  Then what though?  Did the system give up on you and let true RNG takeover when you eventually get that good matchup again?  Does it just do you the 1 favor to throw us all off the scent?

People have win streaks and losing streaks, it happens.  Again, I think discussion is fine and the OP has a somewhat valid point that Blizzard could in fact rig it if they wanted to.  People claiming it absolutely is rigged after getting unlucky though does nothing for the argument.

Quote from 3nnu1 >>

Quote from user-24703847 >>

Quote from 3nnu1 >>

They got me for 3200, Kayn and Metamorphasis...ugh. 

This really bothers me because they moved max rewards to legend, so now I have to do that grind every month, if they are going to constantly nerf stuff and not do their own play testing, then I wont be able to keep up. 

 Well... maybe just dont craft whole decks?

 

When you climb to legend, it is a lot easier with an optomized list. 

It sure is.  I sincerely doubt though, the list anyone was playing on day 1(even the highest win rate) would have ended up being card for card the single best win rate DH list a month later.  No list was optimized.

I get it though, the response to legit complaints shouldn't just be 'live and learn'.  You must realize though that no matter what Blizzard does, they can never please everyone.  I don't doubt there were people at Blizzard who suspected DH was too good as is, but the amount of data they can collect in a single day after launch probably dwarfs the amount they could have gathered from their own testing.

The epics and legendary's people crafted are still very strong cards that will remain in standard for 2 years.  Even after 4 nerfs, the class is still performing quite well.

The most played list is currently at 65% win rate.

The 2nd most played is currently UNDER 47% win rate.

Given how many DH Vs DH games are probably going on, better lists are preying on weaker ones.  Give the expansion a couple days before crying at least.  The more games are played the lower their win % will drop.  We don't know where it will level off.

Until lists get a little refined in all classes, nerfs would be pointless.  Yea, the flashy cards that won them the game might seem unbeatable and impossibly OP(HOW DID THIS GET PAST TESTING OMG?!?!?), but after a week the data might point to seemingly less broken cards contributing far more to wins.

I won't be surprised if and when DH receives a nerf, but complaining it's unbeatable after losing a few games on day 1 is laughable.  Let people play with their shiny new toy a little.

Quote from Warnerve75 >>

Quote from FamousCookie >>

Quote from Lightsaga >>

I just played agaisn't a diamond player, I added them just to see what rank they were... why is bronze players playing agaisn't diamond players? jesus christ.

 Rank basically defines how much you played. You are pit up against people with similar skill as you.

 so in bronze rank, I'm paired against legend level players like me....sorry dude because if that was the case there would be win-loss win-loss win-loss win-win going on all day like it does in rank 5 legend. I blew through all the ranks and it was no more or less difficult than the old system was. Progression and ranks only drain the pool of players so at rank 5 you aren't playing against a pool of 20k people but a pool of 5k people. That is the whole idea of ranks. You don't sit in bronze rank and get matched against a player of your level within that rank. This is pretty absurd. If that were the case you would only play people within any rank who are as skilled as you are and this would make the ranks meaningless. This means it would in effect be harder for a good player to move out of any rank than say a player who just started playing. The game also matches up the decks regardless of skill. SO if you use a tier-one meta deck you will be matched up against a similar deck.

Don't believe me? Make a deck out of random bullshit cards with no particular synergies or theme and see what deck you get matched against..This deck you matched against will be some jank-ass deck just like the one you made. When new players just make a tier-one deck and jump in they are going to get matched against similar decks. If you can't play the deck and mulligan right and get the cards you are probably going to lose more than you win. I highly doubt you are playing some jank-ass meme deck and getting matched against all tier-one meta decks..it just doesn't happen that way buddy.

 This is so easy to disprove I don't know what to say...

The game doesn't care what deck you or your opponent is playing.  Just because you might be playing a meme deck at a low mmr/rank doesn't mean your opponents are required to as well. 

I doubt the game knows the difference between skill and luck either.  A fairly new player coasting to high rank with a face deck even though they misplayed almost every single turn, would likely be in the same boat now with players playing flawlessly that got unlucky a bunch and ended at the same rank.

Quote from Laysson >>

And now it's getting monetized, so you either pay with real money or you are forced to grind normal mode for 2k5 gold.

How exactly are you forced to do either of those options?  Any player who hasn't invested real money or gold shouldn't see much of a difference.  I suppose the amount of free packs they have given by now might have unlocked a perk but this is pretty damn close to being the same thing. 

Quote from Trevolock2 >>

I don’t hate the mode but I wish they would’ve put energy and creativity towards something else. A lot of cool mechanics, card designs, or even characters from Warcraft lore will probably get placed into Battlegrounds and not the constructed format. I would much rather see those go into the constructed format. 

 I can certainly understand how you feel, the lore keeps me a little invested.  However, cards being designed for 2 different modes would likely add to the amount of mechanics and card design options available to both modes.  Characters too would have extra value by releasing them both as heroes/legends in both modes like Illidan was.  Either way it's just speculation that any mechanics/card designs/characters that get put into battegrounds would have ever shown up in constructed to begin with.

Pre-Watcher nerf, demons were clearly the problem and so they nerfed the problem card.

Even if it was obvious(which It was) that Cobolt would be strong, I agree with their decision to not make changes to multiple strats at once.  A nerf to Cobolt may not have been needed at the time and especially after the introduction of dragons.

While Cobolt is still a very strong card and as OP mentioned, shows up outside mech strats a fair amount, I typically don't see it in winning comps at the end game unless they are full mech.  Its very powerful Midgame and can be kept for good amount of rounds before dropping it, but this can also be said about several other tier 3 cards as well.

I don't think Cobolt needs a nerf personally.  The counters exist, mech endgame isn't the best in the game, many mechs were recently removed and without an additional buff somewhere mechs could become very weak.

So does OP just want priest nerfed or does he also want future sets to never allow a slow control deck to exist/be relevant?

I liked Equality at 2 mana and at least 1 copy probably went into every Paladin deck I ever made since it's really strong.  The nerf to 4 mana certainly put a stop to that and is for the best.  While it sucks that odd and even mechanics had to be strongly considered while making this nerf, no basic/classic card should be so strong that's inclusion into a class deck is automatic.

I doubt buffing wild decks is ever a consideration when designing new cards either.  You'll just have to wait patiently for new cards that fit into w/e decks you like to play.  I personally don't see a problem with Paladin not having a strong control option in wild or with Shaman and Rogue having better aggro decks.  There are 9 different classes and if they are all capable of the exact same stuff then what's the point of having 9 to begin with?

While the mode itself doesn't currently generate any money for Blizzard, it does expand it's audience.  Auto chess is clearly a popular mode for games these days that allow fans to see the cards/heroes/items of that game used in a brand new way.  The hearthstone version obviously has it's faults, but as someone who can quickly becomes bored with any given meta I quite enjoy the change of pace.

I can understand your frustration though.  A mode you have no interest in being focused on seemingly has no benefit for you.  I personally wouldn't care about a tournament mode or a better casual mode(not sure what's wrong with the current one), but anything that keeps people logging on or attracts new players is a win.  Many top hearthstone streamers play battlegrounds consistently which says a lot.

I'm not sure what BG's have in common with the card game war.  While you have very little influence over your opponents side of the board, there are many choices you have to make almost every turn, any of which can be fatal if done wrong.

I would suggest giving it another chance, if only as an occasional break from regular Hearthstone.  Even in losses I often enjoy it since there are so many different heroes and play styles to try and learn.