Hearthpwn

Quote from Disasterrific »

It's a bit of a trend that a lot of decks are tapping into 0 mana spells and gadgetzan. Spellpower + moonfire token druid looks quite powerful. Token shaman is another deck that is waiting to get made.

Yeah the success of Miracle Rogue makes people wonder if they can do similar things with other decks. I actually only threw 1 Gadgetzan in the token Shaman I am playing around with. That combo is nice but not really what the deck is about. In fact I find when I abuse Gadgetzan I end up over filling my hand and burning cards. 

IMO it is more about strong control (which the Shaman of course excels at), Violet Teacher for swarm whilst doing that control, Far Sight to force the deck to be faster/give interesting combo options later and strong legendaries to finish. Mine is running with Rag, Ysera, and Onyxia. I know Onyxia gets a bad rap but she can be super useful against Zoo when Ive been delaying them all game long but their pressure just doesnt quit or when I just want to flood the board to give them something to worry about. I dont run Bloodlust (maybe I should but I found that I never used it in the dozen or so games I tested with it in) but when you see Onyxia come out from a Shaman Bloodlust leaps to mind and people will focus on clearing the mess of 1/1s instead of the 8/8.

All in all it is an interesting deck but it runs pretty expensive. If anyone is interested I will throw together the decklist and start a new thread in the Shaman forums. Then I will link it from this one. Ive not yet run it in ranked, only a couple dozen times in unranked, and Im only rank 10. So who knows if this idea could actually work at high levels but it seems like once I settle the deck down it will be pretty solid.

So... I decided to try to build a deck with farsight and violet teacher and it is actually working pretty decently. A lot of the time farsight is just to make the deck artificially smaller and/or get 1 extra 1/1. It's not a fun and sexy use but it opens you up to getting to other combos. More importantly the dream combo is so insanely fun that I actually walked away from the game for a bit after pulling it off. Turn 3 farsight draws ragnaros. Playing against a Druid so I wasn't too afraid of hard removal so turn 4 I coined out my now 5 cost ragnaros. Then turn 5 I faceless manipulator for double rag. 

I take back my hate on for it. I'm convinced that it could be used very efficiently. I don't think that I am there yet but I'm gonna keep tweaking until I am.

Quote from Pilleri »

Quote from Dr_Smash »

Quote from Leaga »

 in the past I have written about How Farsight is actually good (search my old posts, if interested).  

- Lets you play with a 28 card deck instead of 30.

- Gadgetzan synergy.

- Has the potential of introducing costly cards into the table very early (e.g. Al-Akir, Ysera) vs a deck which is slow in applying pressure, or can allow a very powerful finish combo (e.g. Leeroy, Bloodlust) by setting up "extra mana" for the combo turn in advance.

 

I geuss these are some pretty decent points but I just dont see them as a benefit. I mean I've never built a deck to 28 and said, man I wish I could stop here. I generally get to 30 and then go oh shit there were 2-3 more I wanted to include. Then I have to spend a few minutes rebuilding. All though, I think its fair to say I'm not one of the best deck-builders. Maybe itll gain some prominence in some deck somewhere along the lines.

The Gadgetzan synergy is probably the best point and I would even add in that it might be interesting to try some kind of token Shaman with the Violet Teacher and FS. With either Gadget or VT it would be pretty situational but then I again I guess that puts it pretty close to on par with Preperation. But Prep has the benefit of letting you use it with anything that was already in your hand instead of just one luck of the draw.

The last part I just dont see how you can rely on that. If you get the right draw then yes, it gets something out way earlier than it normally would come out. But again, you have to give up tempo for a turn before you can use whatever awesome thing you drew. The bigger benefit in my eyes is the idea that you could have a one turn combo of any 8 cost Legendary like Ragnaros, Gruul, or Al Akir and Faceless Manipulator. Now that could end up being an amazing turn 10.

Quote from laza99»

TBH, after the enemy's turn 5 if you bounce back his T5 minion its OP, since you make him skip his T5. 4/4 is even more OP than 5/3 since it's a lot harder to remove.

Laza, I think you may be forgetting the combo part of Kidnapper. Even if it cost 5 mana it still wouldnt be played on turn 5 unless combod with backstab or prep and something else. Now tell me, in what situation would that be efficient? I mean if you have the cards to be able to afford that, do you really need a sap/shadowstep? 

The only justification for the cost of Kidnapper is that it can be used on any minion instead of just one person's but even that seems thin to me with what a terrible body it is that comes onto the field. There isnt another 5/3 in the game for a reason and it isnt to make Rogues feel special. It is because nobody wants that garbage. Think about this for a minute. It is an Epic, which IMO should decrease the cost or increase the stats a little. It's a subpar 4-cost body. It has a combo so it needs to be played after something else to be able to copy the ability of a 2 cost spell or half of the ability of a 0 cost spell(shadowstep minus the decrease in cost). Yet it costs 6? 

To use the original poster's comparison, Ancient Brewmaster (a common expert card) has 1 more health and 1 less cost. Let's use that as perspective. The value of giving Ancient Brewmaster the option of putting an enemy minion back in hand instead of just a friendly minion is -1 health, +1 mana cost, the requirement that a card be played before him, class-specific lock out, AND 2 levels of rarity. Thats one hell of a steep price to pay. It would most definitely NOT be OP by giving it one less mana cost and a body that might actually stick to the board for a little while.

Obviously, I dont like Kidnapper however, I think far sight is seriously the worst card in the game. I REALLY dont get the logic behind it. If used late game it is completely worthless. Whatever you draw from it could have been played for the exact same stats or less, all it did was shrink your decksize by 1. If used early/mid game it is going to either be the same situation as late game or basically a variant of innervate that gives up tempo for a turn before it gains tempo. It should definitely be reworked. One less mana would be the easy fix to make it playable (all though I still wouldnt like it) but I think it should be 2 mana draw 2 cards, they each cost one less to play and gain overload 1. 

Quote from Cagey75 »

Irritating when players do it. It wastes their time as much as yours. And it's mostly Priest, for some unknown reason. Like they need more time think about their terrible cards. 

As someone who recently started toying around with Priest... There tends to be much tougher decisions in that playstyle than with others. just because I take a while to make decision doesnt mean im trolling. Every other deck looks 1 turn into the future. Priest plays best when you can predict the opponents next 2-3 moves. Those "terrible" cards can actually be used for that exact purpose. So yeah it actually is important for priests to take a minute to think about thier cards

Quote from gator7870 »

And it doesn't have to get back to your turn. It dies at the end of the turn it is played, so before your opponent's turn. I wish it lasted until the next turn, then it would be amazing.

Oh right, I misremembered the card.

Good to know, thanks to the both of you.

I'm new to playing Mage but with the rise of the OTK Leeroy combos and control decks that focus on just laying out taunts to counter that, I have been loving my Mage deck. Mage can be built to compete in control battles pretty well and can finish even when your enemy has taunts on the field meanwhile Ice Block or Ice Shield combod with a well timed Mirror Entity will make Zoolock and Miracle rogue cry. 

I'm only rank 13 and have only played a handful of games with my new Mage deck so maybe I'm just not to that level of competition yet but I don't see a reason why a well built Mage deck couldnt kick the trash out of Miracle, Zoo, Priest or anything else I see on a daily basis.

I'm new to playing Mage but with the rise of the OTK Leeroy combos and control decks that focus on just laying out taunts to counter that, I have been loving my Mage deck. Mage can be built to compete in control battles pretty well and can finish even when your enemy has taunts on the field meanwhile Ice Block or Ice Shield combod with a well timed Mirror Entity will make Zoolock and Miracle rogue cry. 

I'm only rank 13 and have only played a handful of games with my new Mage deck so maybe I'm just not to that level of competition yet but I don't see a reason why a well built Mage deck couldnt kick the trash out of Miracle, Zoo, Priest or anything else I see on a daily basis.

So it wont matter a vast majority of the time as it used as a finisher but I was curious: If you pulled the Leeroy> Power Overwhelming > Faceless combo, would the faceless die as well if it got back to your turn? 

Quote from MarlernX »

Ice Block > Alexstrasza is very good atm, now that theres not a lot of hunters.

I got Alex the other day in a pack and havent found a great use for him but I love that idea. I just may try building a mage deck tonight because of this post. With the amount of all-in finishers that have been going on due to the rise of miracle rogue and warlock Leeroy combos, Ice Block > Alexstrasza may be an extremely strong start to a deck.

Edit: Thinking more about it. It also might be sweet since flamestrike can bring stealthed Auctioneers down. Ive been running Priest for the Auchenai/Circle and/or Mass Dispel counter to Auctioneer but Mage might work even better.

I really enjoy accepting rage requests. Being told I'm a poor n*****r who pays to win is hilarious. (especially because I've never paid.) It makes me happy that even when I rage at the game it still isn't important enough in my life to do that. Puts things into perspective.

Quote from OsC »

So I am obviously doing something wrong. Too many turns I just use my weapon because I don't have any other cards to use in my hand that are usable. What do you do in these situations?

I either die cause I lost health too early cause I keep clearing shit with my weapon

I die when I have no minions to play

I die when I have no spells to play

I die when I have gadget

I die when I have 2x shadowstep no leeroy

Won 5 games in a row as zoo last night before before in like 15 mins, wake up this morning lose 5 in a row with rogue. Real? Someone explain pls 

 

I am asking for help. What do you do in situations where you don't draw the cards you need and you are stuck at turn 5 and using only your hero power?

If it is pure spells like some of these miracle decks we see online seem to be then imo it becomes too easy to just draw the wrong cards. Certain spells are only good in certain situations. That actually is the same problem that I had with Miracle when I first started playing it and so I built it more to my style. I would suggest looking at your play style and the style of other miracle rogues and pondering what you need different in your deck. Here are some adjustments I made:

-I removed the spells that seemed too situational. I only run one blade flurry and no Fan of Knives or Betrayal for instance. (I currently have no +spell dmg so the potential of these spells clearing board is fairly low)

-I removed the more expensive weapons to keep my tempo up, reduce my deck cost, and to include more minions.

-I added some minions, beyond the stock Leeroy, SI:7 Agent, Van Cleef, etc, that I like for utility like the following:

2 Elven Archers - Nice clear against Zoo, Sets up combos nicely since it is 1 mana and can add to the dmg that a combo card could be doing (Archer/Eviscerate is a very satisfying way to deal with Yetis), decent early board presence if you feel the need to play aggressive based on matchup

2 Southsea Deckhands - Early game they apply nice pressure or minion clear against Zoo. Late game they can be used as mini-Leeroy in a pinch

2 Loot Hoarders - not really a thinking outside of the box addition but nonetheless nice utility and it should be pretty obvious why

With adjustments like this it quickly becomes a deck not so dependent on drawing the Auctioneer and that plays very differently. I play mine with a bit more of a tempo mindset. I try to keep board control even if it means I burn spells before I get the auctioneer out. Then when I do get the auctioneer out I continue applying pressure and keeping board control until I have some combo of cards that finish the game. And it isnt always Leeroy like most assume. Just this morning I ended a game with Southsea Deckhand, Cold Blood, Eviscerate x2 and then an SI:7 Agent hitting face. 9 mana to deal 16 dmg. 

Also no offense but if you got some hate on for conceal than you are using it way wrong. That card is about extending the shelf life of your Auctioneer. You mentioned only getting a few draws out of Auctioneer before he dies, that card is your solution. Obviously it is a VERY situational card. I dont suggest running more than 1. It does end up being a dead card in hand fairly regularly but eventually you will draw Gadget and love that it is in your hand. Even when you get in desperate situations and never draw Gadget it can be played on an empty board as a 1 drop to prime combos. I've burned it just to give Van Cleef +2/2 or to ensure that Eviscerate kills something, etc. 

Im still learning, playing around rank 14 but I dont know what youre talking about. My Miracle Rogue build works pretty well against Hunters, Paladin, Zoo, and everything in between except Druid, Warrior and Shaman. And Im pretty sure its only bad against Shaman because I see them so rarely that I misplay the hell outta those matchups.

Quick question, does it track automatically or do I need to input cards as I play them? It might be a dumb question but the screen grabs look like its just basically a DB program. I dont really have the focus or play seriously enough to keep track of those kinds of stats but I would love to have it handy if it isnt too hard to get going.

Ive been running something similar and I have to ask... Do you actually get good use out of Divine Favor? There are already VERY limited times that it is useful and then you add on to that the fact that the rest of the deck already draws very well and it feels like a weird pick.

Have you tried replacing that with an Argent Protector? I run a couple of those and it helps me stick to the board a lot better in the early rounds and in the later rounds can be even more useful.

And no Blessing of Kings? No offense but it looks like it would run into the same problem as Miracle Rogue where if you dont get a Gadgetzan Auctioneer (or it gets silenced) than you are kinda screwed. Does that tend to happen or does it work out pretty well?

My deck runs a few more minions and I focus on giving my opponent tough decisions. IE: I have Gadgetzan and Loot Hoarder w/Blessing of Wisdom and Blessing of Kings, which do you silence/kill. Unless someone can afford multiple crowd control at once I end up happy regardless what decision they make. Am I just thinking too aggressive?