Hearthpwn

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This is actually a solid card. 

People who are going negative on it don't seem to realize that the meta is shifting further and further to late-game.

 Since when?

 Not that I agree this card is really any good - but the meta is obviously going to become more control heavy given the style of cards we've seen out of Old Gods so far - the VAST majority of which are control focused - as well as the absence of Naxx/GvG when Standard drops.

 you could add 400 expensive control cards to the game, but unless they can deal wi th early swarms of minions from zoo decks or the onslaught from hunter, it wont matter. sure, aggro loses some tools an we havent seen any real aggro cards revealed - not yet anway - but we are ALSO losing control tools, mainly belcher and healbot, but there is plenty more. i seriously doubt meta will slow down enough for me to  enjoy ladder, let alone for common fatigue wars... an i would probably still want arcanite reaper over this junk...

Quote from maroon5five jump

I guess you didn't play back when Miracle Rogue was a deck, they could otk you with 35 damage without Emperor.  Emperor wouldn't help that deck at all, and I do mean at all. Even implying they would shows how little you know about the deck.

Please tell me how you can otk from an empty board with patron warrior without using Emperor and I will believe you, until then your point makes no sense. 

I never addressed your point about spreading a combo out to two turns because you would have to assume that your opponent could not remove it, and most of the time they can. That's pointless to even debate.

I'm not saying that OTKs would be impossible without it, I'm saying that OTKs would be inconsistent enough to be balanced without it.

 The cards used in Miracle were nerfed by raising mana costs. Emperor lowers mana costs. Simple arithmetic. That you cannot accept this fact shows how little you know.

You keep ranting on and on about how Thaurissan makes OTK possible, and how broken that is, and then you repeatedly make the claim that you consistently win against the OTK decks. So which is it? Is Thaurissan broken and OTK overpowered because of him, or are OTK decks easy to build against and counter?

You can't have both, no matter how much you might insist.

And again - yes, it does matter that you can do a combo over multiple turns. That's how Freeze Mage works, that's how Oil Rogue works, and so on. They don't burst you down from 30 to 0, not unless things have gone very strange. They set up a winning position. You can set up a board and protect it, you know. A lot of decks do it reliably. Patron is no different.

Quote from drbuum jump

You serious with that Sludge Belcher suggestion? So with Patrons: Inner raged Patron goes into the Belcher (-5 damage to face but +2 on Frothing so total of -3 damage), then normal patron goes into the Slime (-3 to your face but +2 on frothing and a new patron if there's room for it so actually you're taking 2 more to the face). So best case scenario the belcher saves you one damage to your face or four damage if the board is full of patrons already. That really doesn't mean much in the current situation. Yesterday I took like 38 damage from an empty enemy board when I had only Belcher and Healbot on board.  I played Priest and kept total control of the game all the time. I already wiped one wave of patrons with lightbomb and was at FULL HEALTH and hand full of cards. His emperor got only one activation, of course.

This stuff shouldn't be possible to pull off. It doesn't make sense that even full control through the whole game and full health can't save you. With Priest you can't burst them down either but he was at like 10 health because i got consistent damage to face because of board control.

I don't consider GPW a cancer deck because it isn't easy to play and it isn't the players fault it's overpowered. So GPW players don't get BM from me like those zoo idiots and huntards. I just hope they fix Frothing or Warsong so that Frothing can't charge you for those 20+ each. Emperor and Patron are okay as it is.

The thing is, Sludge Belcher is only one of many taunts, and you can have two - not one, but two - of them in your deck. You can also put other cards in your deck, depending on your class, like Mal'Ganis, or Tirion Fordring. Yes, worst case scenario, the Patron Warrior steamrolls all over your one and only Sludge Belcher, but by the same token, the worst case scenario against a face hunter or a zoolock has them utterly wrecking you just as easily.

A warlock can hit you for 36 damage in a single turn after one activation of Emperor - Arcane Golem, double Power Overwhelming, double Faceless Manipulator. That's just two damage off of your hypothetical 38 damage frothing!

People play Patron instead.

It's not Thaurissan that's the problem with Patron Warrior. It's the way Warrior's class cards synergize with Grim Patron. Warrior can control the board, removing taunts and threats with Execute and weapons, and has enough whirlwind-style effects to be able to cheaply and easily flood the board with Patrons and finish with a Frothing. No other class has that synergy going for them, and no other class has Warsong Commander to make it all happen at once.

Nerfing Thaurissan does nothing, ultimately. It kills a card for no reason other than misinformation, and causes decks that run him to readjust their strategies. You'll still see Patron Warriors, they'll just become more control-ish. At most it'll allow Blizzard to introduce more cards with a similar nerfed mechanic - "Battlecry: Reduce the mana cost of all other cards in your hand by 1," for example, might be shared text across multiple cards. Hope you like buying packs!

Quote from maroon5five jump

You're using a deck that wouldn't use emperor anyway to prove that emperor isn't a problem?  How does that logic work? If doctor boom is so overpowered then why don't we see more face warrior? Is that how that works?

Miracle Rogue has no use for Emperor so I don't get why you would bring it up, unless you just don't understand Miracle Rogue.

One proc of Emperor Thaurissan's buff, and you can easily do over 30 damage in a single turn. Leeroy Jenkins + double Shadowstep + double Cold Blood + double Preparation + Sap and Eviscerate. If you've already got a (buffed up) dagger ready, that's at least 31 damage. If you don't need the Sap, then it's 35 damage. Yes, that's 9 cards for one combo, but so what? We're assuming that the combo deck will somehow guaranteed have Emperor - and all the other cards they need like Whirlwind and Execute and whatnot - in your examples, so we can assume they can get the perfect combo as well.

Also you do know that most combo decks don't actually aim for OTK from 30 to 0, right? Usually they have specific target numbers, like 26 or 22 or 20, where if you're at that health or lower, they can kill you. There are exceptions - Malygos Mage and Inner Fire Priest for example - but those are exceptions and run as gimmicks.

Finally, you never addressed the other points, such as the fact that you can always just space an OTK combo across 2 turns and play as control until it's all ready. Can't put all the Patron combo cards out on the same turn? Play the Patron one turn early, then Warsong, Frothing, and the other combo cards follow the next turn. Again - Thaurissan not required.

You're placing all the blame for OTK combos onto a card that isn't at fault for them. The combos would still exist and still be reliable without Thaurissan. Don't like it? Run Sludge Belcher. Or play a face hunter deck and kill them before the combo can ever go off. Because somehow that deck isn't a problem, just Thaurissan.

Quote from maroon5five jump

21 damage is not an OTK.  I'm talking about 30+ damage in one turn. 5 cards for 21 damage is not even unbalanced.

I disagree completely, but okay, let's pretend you're right for a moment.

Why don't we see Miracle Rogue as a thing anymore?

Miracle Rogue could OTK you even more easily than the current crop of combo decks. Oil Rogue is similar, but lacks the OTK potential, needing several turns of setting up.

If Thaurissan was really broken and the main cause of the problems, Miracle Rogue would be all over the place all over again. The nerfs are undone! Praise the sun! LEEROY JENKINS!

That isn't happening. Instead people are coming out with new, different combo decks, and OTK is extremely rare and hard to pull off.

Clearly, something doesn't match your narrative.

Quote from maroon5five jump

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The problem is combo OTK decks typically draw most, if not all, of their deck before OTKing, and the chances that you draw Emperor when you draw your entire deck is 100%

Warsong + Patron + Inner Fire x 2 + Whirlwind. 21 damage from no board, 9 mana. Thaurissan can go take a nap, he's not needed here.

Patron Warrior's ridiculous combo potential has nothing to do with Thaurissan. He's there as an Innervate, that's all.

Like, seriously? People actually think Thaurissan is what makes Patron ridiculous?

What makes Patron ridiculous is the hilarious synergy between a minion that, whenever damaged (without dying), spawns a clone of itself... and another minion that gains attack every time any minion is damaged.

That's the real issue. Thaurissan makes it happen earlier/on the same turn, but he isn't what makes it possible. That two-card synergy is what makes it possible.

Think about it - if Thaurissan was really that hugely powerful and really made combo decks viable that otherwise weren't, we'd be seeing Miracle Rogues just as much as we see Patron Warriors. Remember those days?

Instead, he makes already powerful decks work a little earlier or faster (Freeze Mage, Malygos Shaman, Combo Druid, Patron Warrior, etc.) and outside of those he doesn't see play. He's not even a good Arena pick - certainly not terrible, but definitely not a top pick, since all he does is let you dump your hand faster - and with most Arena decks you'll know if you're going to be dumping your hand fast or playing a slow control game without him.

The real issue is the near-perfect synergy Patron and Frothing have together - and then you add Warsong on top of that so they gain Charge. Thaurissan makes it all happen on one turn, but so what? It's a Warrior deck. They can easily lock you out from influencing their combo if they want by preventing you from developing a board, and then they get to do it over two turns instead. And even without ever drawing Thaurissan, they can do a smaller combo with just Warsong and two Frothings, or Warsong and one Patron.

Nerf Patron, Frothing, and/or Warsong Commander. Trying to fix OTK by weakening Thaurissan misses the mark completely. Thaurissan accelerates your death, but he isn't the enabler. Those three cards working together are what kill you. Maybe Patron should be a 2/2, or maybe Warsong's buff should fail as soon as Frothing jumps above 3 attack, or something along those lines. Those would at the very least be better fixes than trying to make Thaurissan unplayable.