Card advantage is literally the number of cards available to you vs. available to your opponent. It is not limited to cards in hand. Where did you get that from?
If I make 2 positive trades on the board, I have a +2 card advantage over my opponent.
"Card Cycle is a card that gives you 0 card advantage, card draw is a card that gives you at least 1 card advantage (so Arcane Intellect is card draw). Even if the card gives tempo (i.e. a body), the card is still card cycle, but it gives tempo at the same time. Though Warsong Wrangler is actually a tutor, since it draws a specific card from your deck. Which is typically something Hunter needs because it can't afford to just draw cards without tempo because it can't play from behind."
With this definition of cycle, Warsong Wrangler is, in fact, card draw, because the body being on the board is a +1 when it is played, so card advantage. It is strange how often card game players have different opinions on what terms such as these mean, when they are actually talking about the same thing.
You could nerf Tundra Rhino to a 5/4 and hunter as a class still wouldn't be dead in this meta. Sure, it wouldn't reduce the damage output, but you could also add more heal/armor gain and especially silence effects to standard for a control buff. Imo there is no problem with hunter having a good deck in the meta, but you have to ask yourself how any other hunter archtype will ever be viable if not only the hero power but also almost all the good cards in the class are either burn/tempo or card draw to get more burn/tempo. And I don't mean control, which seems very unlikely anyway, but what about midrange or combo decks? It's just an extremely one-dimensional class.
It's not. Card advantage refers to your hand, not what's on your board. Like it's kind of immaterial what the word refers to anyway, the bottom line is that the draw cards Hunter has gives it's deck plenty of velocity, and most of their cards are super efficient anyway.
Hunter is an aggro class. Even slower, more expensive decks in the past (like Deathrattle Hunter in Kobolds) have been aggro decks more or less. The quest from Uldum was an aggro quest. Uldum Brann was an aggro card. Their new attempt at Deathrattle Hunter is an aggro deck that wants to blast you in the face with huge deathrattles.
Their only attempt at "control Hunter" that even remotely worked was Deathstalker Rexxar. But even that just got shoved as a one off in tempo Hunter decks because it was so cheap.
I think there's lots of wiggle room in there. These decks don't play or run the same at all.
Troublemaker and Inquisitor are late game minions. Expensive, late game cards should be powerful, otherwise they'd see no play. Lots of 8-cost cards are similarly powerful. As for Rhino, hunters have little card draw, no mana cheating, no heal... if they're going to be competitive at all, their midgame cards need to be impactful, because they can typically only play 1 per turn.
Inquisitor probably doesn't need Rush when it can already pseudo-charge, Troublemaker is incredibly powerful and Tundra Rhino can be tutored out and handbuffed directly from the deck.
I agree that these cards being strong is sensible, and effectively slow Warrior decks aren't meta-relevant at the moment but that doesn't mean there isn't a conversation to have about how proactive and game ending these cards are. Especially when they aren't just powerful swing cards/game enders, but also have a lot of long-term power.
I mean I think there's a conversation to be had about counterspell, freezing trap and oh my yogg being too disruptive in a game that has barely any disruption in it, and at the moment *none* of those cards are relevant at all.
Barack Obama wants to have a talk with you. Have you checked face hunter decks in standard these days? Tracking, Barack, Warsong lady, Quick Shot...Hunters have enough card draw, the deck wouldn't work anyway if they didn't.
Tracking, Warsong and Quick Shot are tutor/cycle, not exactly draw. They'll run out out resources, fast, if they play more than one card a turn. Barak is draw, but it's not great unless the hunter has managed to play Mankrik, first. And then the cards drawn can be pretty low impact in the midgame; the nice thing being that you don't end up top-decking those cheap spells.
As for the "lots of 8-cost cards are similarly powerful" things, please go ahead and name 3 standard 8-cost cards that are Inquisitor level of powerful.
Guardian Animals, Cenarion Ward, Jewel of N'Zoth, Primordial Protector, Twisting Nether. There's five, pick your favorite three.
Warsong lady's buffs are too big (or nerf Rhino)
Hard disagree.
Warsong has a body, so it's not just classic cycling, Quick Shot is cycling + damage, so where do you draw the line between cycling and drawing? Cards that draw 1 card are also card draw if they have an impact themselves.
Twisting Nether is nowhere near as powerful as Inquisitor in standard, 3 of your 5 cards are only good standard cards because of druid ramp, so if anything, the problem is extra mana crystals. Cenarion Ward is not even a good card on its own. You have to copy it to make it a decent play or play the card on t4 or for 0 mana with Lady Mana Cheat because the 8-drop is usually not good enough for standard unless you get lucky af. Inquisitor can just deal 16 face when unchecked and does 8 face when it hits + removes a thing, which is sooooo much stronger than any of the cards you mentioned. I have not even seen a single Jewel of N'Zoth in standard in about 3 months. Where is that card even played?
I played some hunter to see what the problem cards are and it is very apparent that the deck needs Warsong and/or Rhino, so one of these cards is the power card, no doubt.
"Rhino and Troublemaker are more than fine. Are they powerful? yes, but they're beyond predictable (Rhino especially) and I feel can be played around. Sometimes they beat you, sometimes you beat them.
Inquisitor probably needs to be toned down a bit. I think either a mana increase to 9, dropping the 'demon' tribe or making the rush/attack face an outcast stipulation would be more than a fair adjustment to the card while still keeping it powerful in the late game."
It's pretty difficult for some decks to play around Rhino, but I get your point.
It would already be helpful if Blizzard changed Freeze in such a way that Inquisitor cannot attack while it's frozen. That never made much sense, even if you read the actual meaning of the Freeze keyword. I would probably nerf it to a 7/7 over a 9 mana card. Making it an outcast card could be an elegant nerf, but then again, that opens up Studies mana discounts.
Card Cycle is a card that gives you 0 card advantage, card draw is a card that gives you at least 1 card advantage (so Arcane Intellect is card draw). Even if the card gives tempo (i.e. a body), the card is still card cycle, but it gives tempo at the same time. Though Warsong Wrangler is actually a tutor, since it draws a specific card from your deck. Which is typically something Hunter needs because it can't afford to just draw cards without tempo because it can't play from behind.
Having said that, Tundra Rhino's ability to be overstated, and then both take the board *while* often dealing large amounts of face damage is intense and actually *does* let Hunter play from behind which is typically one of their weaknesses. I dunno if it's Tundra Rhino that needs nerfed (the card probably could have slightly less health if they do need to nerf it), though.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
⚙
Learn More
Cosmetics
Related Cards
Card Pools
✕
×
PopCard Settings
Click on the buttons to change the PopCard background.
Elements settings
Click on the button to hide or unhide popcard elements.
Seriously, an 8/8 for 8 that can attack the turn it's played is still a good card. It doesn't necessarily need Rush to be impactful.
Fine, "Hand advantage".
Jfc.
It's not. Card advantage refers to your hand, not what's on your board. Like it's kind of immaterial what the word refers to anyway, the bottom line is that the draw cards Hunter has gives it's deck plenty of velocity, and most of their cards are super efficient anyway.
Hunter is an aggro class. Even slower, more expensive decks in the past (like Deathrattle Hunter in Kobolds) have been aggro decks more or less. The quest from Uldum was an aggro quest. Uldum Brann was an aggro card. Their new attempt at Deathrattle Hunter is an aggro deck that wants to blast you in the face with huge deathrattles.
Their only attempt at "control Hunter" that even remotely worked was Deathstalker Rexxar. But even that just got shoved as a one off in tempo Hunter decks because it was so cheap.
I think there's lots of wiggle room in there. These decks don't play or run the same at all.
Inquisitor probably doesn't need Rush when it can already pseudo-charge, Troublemaker is incredibly powerful and Tundra Rhino can be tutored out and handbuffed directly from the deck.
I agree that these cards being strong is sensible, and effectively slow Warrior decks aren't meta-relevant at the moment but that doesn't mean there isn't a conversation to have about how proactive and game ending these cards are. Especially when they aren't just powerful swing cards/game enders, but also have a lot of long-term power.
I mean I think there's a conversation to be had about counterspell, freezing trap and oh my yogg being too disruptive in a game that has barely any disruption in it, and at the moment *none* of those cards are relevant at all.
Card Cycle is a card that gives you 0 card advantage, card draw is a card that gives you at least 1 card advantage (so Arcane Intellect is card draw). Even if the card gives tempo (i.e. a body), the card is still card cycle, but it gives tempo at the same time. Though Warsong Wrangler is actually a tutor, since it draws a specific card from your deck. Which is typically something Hunter needs because it can't afford to just draw cards without tempo because it can't play from behind.
Having said that, Tundra Rhino's ability to be overstated, and then both take the board *while* often dealing large amounts of face damage is intense and actually *does* let Hunter play from behind which is typically one of their weaknesses. I dunno if it's Tundra Rhino that needs nerfed (the card probably could have slightly less health if they do need to nerf it), though.