Hearthpwn

All right, spent some time iterating on the designs again, some major changes: https://imgur.com/gallery/wsYBe6N

Just google it, there have been some credible leaks and it makes sense. 

Seems we are getting a Death Knight class after all. So, what are your thoughts regarding it? Any predictions? What kind of class would you like to see them do; what mechanics etc.

Honestly, there are so many classes that focus on minion play, I'd love for them to pursue the fantasy of being an absolute killing machine that is highly sustainable, perhaps using less minions of their own and instead killing enemy minions, resummoning them.

On a side note, I made some updates to the original designs.

Would love to hear some feedback in regards to the hero power potential revamp, feel free to throw some ideas at me as well.

Also, what do you think about the new cards and the ones I tweaked?

Quote from rss8090 >>

Too complicated.

Make it simple

2 mana  cost hero power: freeze a minion

Then all the DK cards the lich king/arfus has right now but just modify the cost and effect

Done. Viola Dk class

 That sounds extremely boring tbh.

Anyhow, I've tweaked the class a bit, added more cards. Any feedback would be appreciated. 

Considering the HP revamp but I want to keep the following:

- Random swap each turn with a pool of X hero powers (3 seems like the most optimal number).

- Permanent (but slow) gain in power. 

Was thinking of tweaking the HP to look something like this: ”Deal 1 damage to your hero and give it +2 Attack until your next attack (stacks).”

Quote from McF4rtson >>

Quote from Devizz >>

All Will Serve is a deck thinner which might not always a good thing if playing against another control deck. Also, you trade 1 card for another which is nothing, for 1 mana - that is is a slight drawback. 

That is not quite right. 1 mana draw a card is not a drawback, as you are thinning your deck. If you pay 0 mana to draw, that is an insane advantage.

I  give you the example of the pre-nerfed Flare. It used to be 1 mana and every single Hunter deck ran it since it was just extremely powerful deck thinning. 

If you look at the old Power Word Shield, technically, it breaks this rule, but it requires a minion to play so therefore, not all Priest decks are able to play this card.

Furthermore, look at all the control decks in existence in Standard at the moment. Not a single one wins by grinding to fatigue. There is absolutely no reason not to play All Will Serve.

I am aware of all of what you're writing and I agree but paying 1 mana to potentially play a card that you could have otherwise drawn for 0 mana IS A DRAWBACK. It is a minor one and again, you are correct in your analysis for the most part.

Quote from ManThighs >>

Cool ideas but the rotating hero power would never fly. It's way to complicated, it's inconsistent in turns of mana cost, and it scales over time (something a base hero power shouldn't be able to do). That being said, the cards look great, and you have a lot of interesting mechanics and well-designed cards. 

Thanks for the input. I really wanted to experiment and I feel quite strongly about a more 'complex' default hero power, you could always make this class a hero one or something, much like it is in WoW which means that it would require more player actions/playtime to unlock. 

The current balance of the permanent upgrade might need tweaking but I would really want to playtest it and iterate it further - the player fantasy of slowly upgrading your hero to be more powerful, much like in deck builders such as Dream Quest/Slay the Spire is very intriguing to me and I really want to explore it further. 

Quote from sashashepto >>

nice to know that this is non-profit

In the context of posting it on these forums, this might seem like a silly disclaimer but I was reposting. No need to be snide. 

Quote from KEKW >>

U are awesome . Can u do a monk project also ?

 Thanks I guess?  :P As for another project, first I'd like to tweak this set more. This was very spontaneous and I doubt I'll do another Hearthstone design brainstorm like this but who knows. Haven't played the game in a long time, the recent Demon Hunter announcement inspired me to play around with some ideas. 

Quote from McF4rtson >>

Couple of "errors", though that is not quite the correct word:

• Twinspell is an expansion-exclusive keyword, you can't use it. It also does not exist in the Basic set.
• No basic set uses a class-specific keyword. Therefore, you cannot use Syphon in your Basic set.
• Same thing with Silence, it does not appear in the Basic set.

As for balance (I skimmed quickly though, probably didn't catch everything):

• I think your Hero Power is way too complicated. If anything, DH has shown us simplistic Hero Powers are the way to go.
• All Will Serve is a 1 mana draw a card, no drawbacks whatsoever. These are typically not printed in Hearthstone, as they turn a deck from a 30-card deck into a 28-card one. (That is, they are auto-includes)
• Sapphiron is awful. Very low impact, and you have no control over what it freezes.
• Succor is a very strange card from a design standpoint. You have absolutely no cards that activate on discard, nor benefit from it. Discard should probably be left as a warlock thing.

Thanks for the feedback. As for the Hero Power being too complicated, even though in theory the DH Hero Power is simple but has a lot of interaction and fun dynamics with other class mechanics and cards (which is in line with Hearthstone's fundamental design principles), I am not a huge fan of it. It seems too simple to me, even though it fits Hearthstone and I might be completely wrong after I actually get to play with the Demon Hunter. In theory, If something is deceptively simple and can be used in many ways, it is a good design. Anyhow, I wanted to experiment with something different, potentially fun and more interesting (don't mind if its slightly more complex, I still think it is not overly complex).

All Will Serve is a deck thinner which might not always a good thing if playing against another control deck. Also, you trade 1 card for another which is nothing, for 1 mana - that is is a slight drawback. 

Quote from Klipce >>

Love the concept ! It's great that Demon Hunter inspires people to design their own class. Death Kight is a safe pick as it is well established both in WoW and Hearthstone and I think you did a good job representing it.

That being said, I have a few points I'd like to discuss.

First your keyword "Syphon". While I like the mechanic, I think it's not very on brand for Hearthstone. Only one keyword in the game works with a number (Overload) and I think it's for the sake of simplicity. It's fine if you want to keep it that way but I think something like "If a minion died this turn" or "If a friendly minion died this turn" would be better.

Then your Hero Power. I must say, I don't like it. Having 3 different effects make it confusing. Which one do you start with ? Do they change in a predetermined patern or at random ? Does Unholy Presence grant permanent Attack ? Also each effect is very distinct and the fact that they have different costs make it very hard to plan your turns ahead. I like Frost Presence so I think you should either keep that one only or find something completly new. I made a thread about Hero Powers where you can find inspiration, borrow ideas or pitch new concepts : https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/fan-creations/237382-custom-hero-powers

I'll read all the cards eventualy and maybe review them one by one if I find the courage but I wanted to start with basic elements.

Hope to see more of this !

Thanks for the input! Now, as far as the keyword is concerned - initially I wanted to do something along the lines of what you wrote, as in have a trigger when something dies. Having a parameter attached opens up so much design space though and allows for some truly unique/interesting/meaningful cards while at the same time making the balancing much easier. I don't think the parameter makes the things more complex but this could be tweaked relatively easily if playtesting feedback was such as yours.

The rotating hero power mechanic is the fundamental core of this design and I really wanted to pursue that - it was the very starting foundation for this class/set of cards. I like the gameplay dynamic of having to constantly predict possible outcomes based on probability and alter the plays based on the result. 

As for the clarity of the mechanic, it works just like Dr. Boom, so yeah it is random. Might be ambiguous initially, true but the same can be said about many mechanics in Hearthstone (some truly wacky cards out there), including Dr. Boom. You have to play the card at least once to understand how it works, there are no tooltips that explain how creating a beast for the DK Hunter works, etc.

I don't want the hero power to fundamentally always swap to the same one, by design it is supposed to be random. Then again, I wanted to have a card that allows one to manipulate that randomness if they so wish - one of the cards in the set swaps the hero power (it is a spell with the twinspell keyword). This somewhat manipulates the randomness. There is also a card that changes the random order to a persistent one that can be predicted, allowing for player actions that can be planned accordingly.

And yes, the Unholy Presence effect is indeed permanent. I assumed the bracket clarification is not needed since all Attack bonuses on other cards in Hearthstone contain the 'this turn' restriction. No restriction implies the effect is permanent. Perhaps I was wrong. 

Keep the feedback coming. ;)

Disclaimer: This is a fan project that is completely non-profit, all the art assets belong to Blizzard.

https://imgur.com/gallery/QrbLeMC