I get that but then how which time frame would you mods be confortable with ? I don't think you can get below one month without putting enourmous pressure on contestants. Being rushed to produce full sets in a few days by myself just to please some vocal audience members who aren't affected by the time pressure would make me quit the competition because I know there are gonna be some week or day on which I can't get anything done and that is going to crush my chances in the competition overall.
I think the big problem when trying to make the competition faster is not the amount of cards to make each phase but rather the fact that making a whole consistant set to restricts design opportunities which leads to "pack filler" design and creative burnout. Any contestant can probably make 7 or 8 interesting cards based on one concept, be it a class identity or a set mechanic, but then the last few cards are gonna be rushed, less interesting or out of place. I see two ways around this but there probably are other solutions.
My first idea is to ask for cards from different sets during each phase. I elaborated on this earlier but basically make 2 or 3 cards from 4 or 5 sets each phase if it's a class competition and for an expension make 10 to 15 cards around a mecanic each phase. Phases should be 7 to 10 days long.
If you want to go beyond a 15 cards/10 days, my solution would be to give the opportunity (if not the obligation) to compete as a group. I would do this with a twist tho : Phase 1 would be a "form a group" phase to let contenders pitch their ideas and find partners. If it's a class comp, everyone gets to post up to 3 hero powers, up to 3 keywords, up to 3 unique mecanics and up to 15 exemple cards. Flavor would be loose this round but it could be reworked latter. Then, people can contact each other to form a team of 2 or 3 for the rest of the competition. Teams can include people who posted or newcomers who liked the poster's concepts. On phase 2, teams would have to settle on a hero power and a keyword from one of the posts among the team (minor tweaks might be allowed), decide on a clear class identity and make to whole basic set. You could even go as far as including the classic set to but that might overwhelm those who didn't team up. After that, you can either do one, two or even three sets each phase. With this model, you can get the whole of standard done in 4 phases. If it's an expansion comp, you do pretty much the same except the first post will feature up to 3 keywords, up to 3 "one per class" cycles (i.e. spellstones, forbidden spells etc...), up to 3 unique legendary patern (i.e. legendary spells, legendary weapons, quests etc...) with up to 15 exemple cards. After the team-ups you can make 3 or 4 phases that will showcase one third/one fourth of the expension, maybe do a phase about single player content or maybe do a separate competition for that.
I know teaming up can seem like it will give certain contenders an unfair advantage but bringing several perpectives together is in my oppinion the only way to archieve a card/phase ratio that allows for a short yet complete competition.
Zany and I took some time to brainstorm a couple of ideas (this is in regards to a class competition, which is slightly more popular):
We have a few options and a some twists.
Everyone who enters will have one week to make their Basic set. Everyone moves on from this stage. The next stage is the Classic Set. We start culling here. We then can either do any one Wild set of your choice OR the earliest two Standard sets. (Therefore, either a total of either 3 or 4 sets) This would mark the end of the first half. Whoever wins this will receive a massive boost going into the second half.
After a few months, we go ahead with the second half. All who participated in the first half can re-join with their old concept. Here, we would either do three or four Standard expansions. Again, this boils down to either a choice of 3 or 4 sets.
As for twists, I plan to add "super-likes" and Jeopardy-style lifelines. They would be a 50/50 or Phone a Mod.
50/50 is when you PM a Mod two cards (either two versions of the same card or two entirely different ones) and you ask them to pick which one they like more.
Phone a Mod allows you to PM a Mod. They will give feedback on a single card.
Each can be used once across BOTH halves.
A super-like is when you vote and then comment in the voting thread who you give a super-like to. That will add two extra points. Again, you can only do this once across both halves.
Zany's ideas are:
Each phase, you are allowed a single "preview" card. During your Basic set, you may showcase a Classic card, during the Classic phase, a Wild card, etc.
Furthermore, at the Grand Final during the second half, three of your cards will not be made by you. Each of the other finalists (there are always four) will make 1 card for each of their competitor's classes.
Looks like you are looking to condense the big comps with 1 set/week. That will certainly keep the pace up and the audience focused but I fear it would be overwelming for inexperienced or busy creators. Basic set is 10 cards. If you want to get feedback on your first draft and itterate, you basicaly have to make them in 1 or 2 days which makes it hard to be creative for all of them and find appropriated names, flavor and artworks. And what about sets that are 15 cards ? It's just too much. I know I would get burned out really fast at that pace. Maybe it could work if you only asked for 5 to 7 cards each set.
As for the twists, I like all of them, especially the challenge of making cards for your opponent's classes. I'd like to know how you make sure people make good cards in this context but it's probably not that hard. Maybe add a "get out of jail" option that let's you ingnore one rule once in the contest.
I still think you should consider breaking up sets into weekly posts to keep frequent contributions while giving contestants time to work on their class. I get that you don't want a cpntest that lasts too long so here are some adjustments to this proposal that would make it go fast :
1. Contestants build several sets at the same time. Let's say each week, they have to post 2 cards from the Basic set, 3 cards from the Classic set and 2 cards from any (standard) expension. After 5 weeks, you can end the competition or finish up each expansion (maybe 1 expansion/week). Note that the finishing expansions part can take place right after the fist part or a few month later. I'd start the eliminations during this part. I'd also add a "week 0" for portrait, Hero Power and theming. The goal here is to increase the cards/week ratio while offering diversity in the design so that contestants don't get burned out. This is 6 weeks for the first part then 6 weeks for the second part.
2. Week 1 : Hero Power and 4 Basic cards. Week 2 : 6 Basic cards (rest of the set). Week 3, 4 and 5 : 5 Classic cards each. You can start eliminations right before, during or right after these 3 weeks. You can make a short break before the rest of the competition here. Week 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 and 11 : Standard sets (one by one). Start slow then, when contestants start getting a fell for their class, ramp up the pace. I also think Basic and Classic should go as slowly as possible since they require more precise design while also being less creativity-inducing.
I hope this is helpful. I'm happy to see mods thinking about big contests since I can't wait for the next one. If you have specific goals (i.e. a certain length) you want to meet, please disclose them, it would make sugesting solutions much easier.
I know many people hated them but I liked having challenges in the CCC. Sometimes it feels wrong to be bond to arbitrary limitations when making your own stuff but other times it really helped me getting a card right or even starting somewhere. Maybe give a bunch of challengers and let contestants choose 2 or 3 they will abide by. Also try to make them design challenges as much as possible, having to make a card based on a pun or with artwork restrictions isn't that fun and doesn't encourage you to find a clever solution on your own.
And for the time between phases, I don't think you want to put to much of a time pressure on contestants but for the audience, a month is a long time to wait for the next big poll. While many contestants will share their process in the discussion threads, I think for those who just want to enjoy the show it's hard to stay invested. Maybe each phase could be broken down into weekly releases of 2 or 3 cards, which would allow contestants to frontload their first ideas and then take some more time to think aboit the rest of their set. It would also make submissions shorter, allowing voters to go through more of them without it feeling like a chore.
Tying back both ideas together, let's say Phase II is about the basic set. Contestants would be given 6 to 8 challenges. Each week, they would have to submit 2 cards, fulfilling at least 1 of the challenges for the week (a different one each week), or maybe they would just get bonus points for fulfilling a challenge. Each week, contestants would get points for the phase based on the number of likes they get. Maybe the last submission can be a big one with all the set, including the 2 remaining cards. At the end of the phase, you see who gets to Phase III based on points accumulated through Phase II. This way you get weekly short submissions and mounthly phases that build up hype around classes. Hopefully this also reduce the impact of post timing which is a very frustrating thing to deal with as a contestant and make every like count, despite the fact that others already got many.
A small thing that I would also like to see is for contestants (and maybe mods) to get some kind of "super like" that they have to give to another designer that would give them something like 3 points for the phase. Contestants (and mods) are more invested in the competition and design in general so it seems fair. It also encourage them to pay attention to what their opponents are doing and gives them a way to save a class that was unpopular inspite of it's good design.
I hope this helps and I can't wait until the next big competion !
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I get that but then how which time frame would you mods be confortable with ? I don't think you can get below one month without putting enourmous pressure on contestants. Being rushed to produce full sets in a few days by myself just to please some vocal audience members who aren't affected by the time pressure would make me quit the competition because I know there are gonna be some week or day on which I can't get anything done and that is going to crush my chances in the competition overall.
I think the big problem when trying to make the competition faster is not the amount of cards to make each phase but rather the fact that making a whole consistant set to restricts design opportunities which leads to "pack filler" design and creative burnout. Any contestant can probably make 7 or 8 interesting cards based on one concept, be it a class identity or a set mechanic, but then the last few cards are gonna be rushed, less interesting or out of place. I see two ways around this but there probably are other solutions.
My first idea is to ask for cards from different sets during each phase. I elaborated on this earlier but basically make 2 or 3 cards from 4 or 5 sets each phase if it's a class competition and for an expension make 10 to 15 cards around a mecanic each phase. Phases should be 7 to 10 days long.
If you want to go beyond a 15 cards/10 days, my solution would be to give the opportunity (if not the obligation) to compete as a group. I would do this with a twist tho : Phase 1 would be a "form a group" phase to let contenders pitch their ideas and find partners. If it's a class comp, everyone gets to post up to 3 hero powers, up to 3 keywords, up to 3 unique mecanics and up to 15 exemple cards. Flavor would be loose this round but it could be reworked latter. Then, people can contact each other to form a team of 2 or 3 for the rest of the competition. Teams can include people who posted or newcomers who liked the poster's concepts. On phase 2, teams would have to settle on a hero power and a keyword from one of the posts among the team (minor tweaks might be allowed), decide on a clear class identity and make to whole basic set. You could even go as far as including the classic set to but that might overwhelm those who didn't team up. After that, you can either do one, two or even three sets each phase. With this model, you can get the whole of standard done in 4 phases. If it's an expansion comp, you do pretty much the same except the first post will feature up to 3 keywords, up to 3 "one per class" cycles (i.e. spellstones, forbidden spells etc...), up to 3 unique legendary patern (i.e. legendary spells, legendary weapons, quests etc...) with up to 15 exemple cards. After the team-ups you can make 3 or 4 phases that will showcase one third/one fourth of the expension, maybe do a phase about single player content or maybe do a separate competition for that.
I know teaming up can seem like it will give certain contenders an unfair advantage but bringing several perpectives together is in my oppinion the only way to archieve a card/phase ratio that allows for a short yet complete competition.
Looks like you are looking to condense the big comps with 1 set/week. That will certainly keep the pace up and the audience focused but I fear it would be overwelming for inexperienced or busy creators. Basic set is 10 cards. If you want to get feedback on your first draft and itterate, you basicaly have to make them in 1 or 2 days which makes it hard to be creative for all of them and find appropriated names, flavor and artworks. And what about sets that are 15 cards ? It's just too much. I know I would get burned out really fast at that pace. Maybe it could work if you only asked for 5 to 7 cards each set.
As for the twists, I like all of them, especially the challenge of making cards for your opponent's classes. I'd like to know how you make sure people make good cards in this context but it's probably not that hard. Maybe add a "get out of jail" option that let's you ingnore one rule once in the contest.
I still think you should consider breaking up sets into weekly posts to keep frequent contributions while giving contestants time to work on their class. I get that you don't want a cpntest that lasts too long so here are some adjustments to this proposal that would make it go fast :
1. Contestants build several sets at the same time. Let's say each week, they have to post 2 cards from the Basic set, 3 cards from the Classic set and 2 cards from any (standard) expension. After 5 weeks, you can end the competition or finish up each expansion (maybe 1 expansion/week). Note that the finishing expansions part can take place right after the fist part or a few month later. I'd start the eliminations during this part. I'd also add a "week 0" for portrait, Hero Power and theming. The goal here is to increase the cards/week ratio while offering diversity in the design so that contestants don't get burned out. This is 6 weeks for the first part then 6 weeks for the second part.
2. Week 1 : Hero Power and 4 Basic cards. Week 2 : 6 Basic cards (rest of the set). Week 3, 4 and 5 : 5 Classic cards each. You can start eliminations right before, during or right after these 3 weeks. You can make a short break before the rest of the competition here. Week 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 and 11 : Standard sets (one by one). Start slow then, when contestants start getting a fell for their class, ramp up the pace. I also think Basic and Classic should go as slowly as possible since they require more precise design while also being less creativity-inducing.
I hope this is helpful. I'm happy to see mods thinking about big contests since I can't wait for the next one. If you have specific goals (i.e. a certain length) you want to meet, please disclose them, it would make sugesting solutions much easier.
I know many people hated them but I liked having challenges in the CCC. Sometimes it feels wrong to be bond to arbitrary limitations when making your own stuff but other times it really helped me getting a card right or even starting somewhere. Maybe give a bunch of challengers and let contestants choose 2 or 3 they will abide by. Also try to make them design challenges as much as possible, having to make a card based on a pun or with artwork restrictions isn't that fun and doesn't encourage you to find a clever solution on your own.
And for the time between phases, I don't think you want to put to much of a time pressure on contestants but for the audience, a month is a long time to wait for the next big poll. While many contestants will share their process in the discussion threads, I think for those who just want to enjoy the show it's hard to stay invested. Maybe each phase could be broken down into weekly releases of 2 or 3 cards, which would allow contestants to frontload their first ideas and then take some more time to think aboit the rest of their set. It would also make submissions shorter, allowing voters to go through more of them without it feeling like a chore.
Tying back both ideas together, let's say Phase II is about the basic set. Contestants would be given 6 to 8 challenges. Each week, they would have to submit 2 cards, fulfilling at least 1 of the challenges for the week (a different one each week), or maybe they would just get bonus points for fulfilling a challenge. Each week, contestants would get points for the phase based on the number of likes they get. Maybe the last submission can be a big one with all the set, including the 2 remaining cards. At the end of the phase, you see who gets to Phase III based on points accumulated through Phase II. This way you get weekly short submissions and mounthly phases that build up hype around classes. Hopefully this also reduce the impact of post timing which is a very frustrating thing to deal with as a contestant and make every like count, despite the fact that others already got many.
A small thing that I would also like to see is for contestants (and maybe mods) to get some kind of "super like" that they have to give to another designer that would give them something like 3 points for the phase. Contestants (and mods) are more invested in the competition and design in general so it seems fair. It also encourage them to pay attention to what their opponents are doing and gives them a way to save a class that was unpopular inspite of it's good design.
I hope this helps and I can't wait until the next big competion !