Hearthpwn

Quote from TardisGreen >>

Quote from Incredible07 >>

Quote from C_A_W >>

Quote from Incredible07 >>

Quote from kitox_me >>

saying HS is pure luck is always the excuse of the looser

if you play enough games you will realize this game has a lot of skill involved

us good players recognize this every month when we go back to rank4, when terrible players are all over the place, you can notice their poor plays and decisions every game. Actually is not until top200 legend when you can see flawless play.

 “Loser”

Anyway, the only skill involved is basic math and reading. So please pat yourself on the back for having such things. 

By your logic only skill in chess is reading (the rules), that's why no one, not even supercomputer and top AIs can play chess perfectly every time even when there are only 8 pieces left on the board. 

 By my logic I don’t compare a pile of RNG bullshit to chess because Im not stupid. 

No, just full of venom.  You poor frustrated loser.

 It is not at chess levels, however it is like chess puzzles when in-game,n you are given your position and oponents and gotta play around it. 

Honestly skills in hearthstone are planning ahead, adding tech cards ahead of time, making trades thinking ahead, and decision making whether to attack face, kill minnions or trade 1 of your own. 

Are these skills hard? Not exactly but for a person to remember most decks and possible enemy plays he has to have memorized most of the game too.

Baiting enemy into your own plays is a skill too. 

These are all individually easy skills, however combining them all, it is not as easy as it seems.

Otherwise Pro players would not exist. It is just that maximum potential in hearthstone could be reached after a few months, rather than years in chess.

Quote from Shadowrisen >>

@Stingeris

I don't know if it's the ESL problem or just deliberate trolling.  Either way, at some point it just becomes futile to try with this guy.  The constant assertions about violations of ethics based on completely moral neutral design decisions have been going on for months now.

It's always shitty to have to wonder whether folks actually feel the way they profess to or if it's just troll culture, but I try to give people the benefit of the doubt.  There's so much misplaced anger, though.

The statement was made earlier that the fact that the same people win consistently in the game is NOT an indicator that skill is a factor.  Since it obviously disproves the notion that who wins and loses over time is totally random, the only other explanation is some multi-dimensional conspiracy theory in which Blizzard has arbitrarily picked a bunch of folks, many of whom do not stream or contribute to the publicity of the game in any way, and hold those names up as professionals.  He's sort of hinted at some sort of belief like that, but never come right out and said it.

Again, if you acknowledge reality and admit that a small group of players enjoy far more success than can be explained by random chance, there are ONLY two explanations.  Either that group of people is better at the game than most and that difference in level of play translates into success, or there is some artificial manipulation of win rates over a long period of time for the benefit of a few players, many of whom have no ties to the company or particularly large public followings that translate into aiding the game's sales.

No matter how many syllables you use to couch your arguments; no matter how many lofty ethical quandaries you try to create out of a card game, you simply can't get away from the fact that believing in the latter explanation flies in the face of all evidence available to us.  If you are willing to do that, then there is no arguing with you.

In any case, I've been away from the forums for a bit because I've actually been playing and enjoying the game.  The announcement of 1000 win portraits has me grinding away, and I have to admit I enjoy the hell out of this standard meta.  Just fought a 25 minute battle as Control Warrior vs Highlander Hunter in which the hunter cast 4 Hunter's Pack (2 of which got him Savannah Highmane) and 8 Unleash the Beasts.  Furthermore, he elected to take Twisting Nether off his Zephrys, and I instantly thought to myself, "well, that's going to suck for him when he plays Zul'jin".  Except it didn't, because the Twisting Nether was the 1st spell Zul'jin elected to cast, meaning it didn't kill any of his board.  Now, all of what I described is fodder for the folks who believe that RNG in the game is manipulated, these things couldn't possibly happen with truly random gameplay, etc.  And of course, that is all nonsense.  It could happen, it does happen, and it can (and in this case was) beaten.  I can't help but wonder how many of these folks would have pressed the concede button as soon as they saw the Zul'jin result.  Oh, by the way, my Dr. Boom was the bottom card of my deck.

I love games like that, and the experience would neither have been ruined, nor have changed the reality about RNG of the game if I had lost in the end.  If you can't derive enjoyment from the gameplay in situations like that, this game might just not be for you.  You don't have to poor poison out all over the forums; you can just go elsewhere for entertainment.  But acting as if there are factual statements to make that the game is not only flawed, but somehow malicious or evil, is far beyond absurd at this point.  Just decide if you want to listen to evidence and reason or not, and if not, be honest about it so we can move on.

 

 

In other news, someone else in this thread claimed that it was proven that RNG was manipulated because of things like the Quest card mechanic where the quests are drawn in the opening hand every game.  You do understand, that piece of programming doesn't even touch the random number generation algorithms, right?  That's a trait of the card itself which triggers at start of game, just like Genn or Baku did last year.  There's nothing going on there related to this issue.

That was just a very weird way to come at this, especially from a programming standpoint.

 

TL;DR  Work on your attention span

 Now it is correct but you aimed your comment at the wrong person.

Quote from DrWhoIsBadTV >>

Quote from sigtrent >>

Too many people are focused on if you win or loose. Yes, its important, but it hides the skill involved in playing the game.

You can loose and play like a pro, and you can loose while playing like a chump. These are not the same thing. The win or loss wil be the same, but how bad you were beat might not be.

Hearthstone is like a series of puzzles. Some are pretty easy to solve, some are pretty tricky to solve. Solving them well doesn't always mean you win becasue the random elements of the game can confound you. But what you do control is how well you react to what is happening at anygiven moment. That takes skill, it just doesn't always win you games.

So saying hearthstone takes no skill flies in the face of what we all do each time we play. What you really mean is that it is not a game where skill ensures victory, and that is true. But that is not at all the same as saying there is no skill in playing it. 

 Yeah those cancerous Murloc Shamans are really proving skill by vomiting their hand on each turn. Just like those Mages that sit back and play secret after secret. Yeah the skill...

 You seem to be rather salty about it, but that is another can of worms I guess.

Secret mage does take some skill, applying right secrets at right time etc, it is considerably less than say shaman or priest right now , but choosing a less skill intensive deck does not mean it is less valid. Btw secret mage in standard is just meh, and it takes some skill to win with it good amount of time as your early just does not cut it by itself. Wild secret mage is too easy yes, but cmon in wild there is 101 problem and secret mage is just 1 of them.

Quote from Hooghout >>

Quote from Stingeris >>

Skill is necessary in hearthstone but not in a way that it is used in other games. 

In my opinion skill is assuming most likely scenario and playing around it. 

Say priest combo Vs priest combo deck. You drew just 1 drop and 4 drop early, enemy got coin. Do you play northshire and when, is enemy likely to benefit of it. Is he likely to coin his pyromancer, T1 into your northshire losing you your early game and letting enemy snowball during turn 2 and 3 or do you use 1 of you combo cards to fight for early board etc. 

Skill in hearthstone is judging RNG and playing around it. 

It is skill to include tech cards which win you more games than they lose you etc. 

Say dropping out 1 lightwarden for a crab to kill murlock decks or adding 1 stormwind knight for charge minnion, to combo out of hand with low board presence instead of adding 1 more minnion to fight for actual board itself early. 

Skill in hearthstone is not outplaying our opponent as it would in shooters, it is out planning our enemy.

 Very well said and I tend to agree with you. But how do you out plan your enemy if they overwhelm you with murlocs (Shaman, Paladin) as a  say control archetype? My point, skill is curbed as RPS is too steep. Skill is curbed as AI intervenes. 

 you don't. You plan your matchups in deck maker. That is where planning begins. Occasionally you get into a match you can't possibly win,  and you take it like a champ, knowing odds of that happening are rather low, and well if 10% of your matches are unwinnable you should have over 10% auto win matches. 

If you do not over a long run, your planning failed and you need to change deck or part of it at least.

Skill is necessary in hearthstone but not in a way that it is used in other games. 

In my opinion skill is assuming most likely scenario and playing around it. 

Say priest combo Vs priest combo deck. You drew just 1 drop and 4 drop early, enemy got coin. Do you play northshire and when, is enemy likely to benefit of it. Is he likely to coin his pyromancer, T1 into your northshire losing you your early game and letting enemy snowball during turn 2 and 3 or do you use 1 of you combo cards to fight for early board etc. 

Skill in hearthstone is judging RNG and playing around it. 

It is skill to include tech cards which win you more games than they lose you etc. 

Say dropping out 1 lightwarden for a crab to kill murlock decks or adding 1 stormwind knight for charge minnion, to combo out of hand with low board presence instead of adding 1 more minnion to fight for actual board itself early. 

Skill in hearthstone is not outplaying our opponent as it would in shooters, it is out planning our enemy.