The introduction of Blademaster is interesting, I think your deck has space for Earthen Farseer if you want to push for more versatility in the minion, or just remove Blademaster completely for it because you have some room for more healing. You migrated towards more early game and you might have a decent amount of board presence, so in terms of play, just be choosey where you decide to Hellfire. The deck looks good if that's what you have so far to work with between a mix of defense and offensive with reliable minion, that's for sure.
Yesterday I decided to add 2 mortal coils in my deck after reading some comments about this in another thread in this lock forum, and they worked WONDERS! While I had some issues in the rank 6 before adding these, the pressure of the coils against the 1 health minions almost everyone plays on the early game is just OP! Not to mention the card draw.
Had not considered leeroy so far, but maybe I can find some room for him. Having leeroy swinging an attack on the opponent's face and then been shadowflamed is too good of a combo.
~Doom
Yeah, often times I'd play the entire game 4, 5 turns into 10 mana without playing Jaraxxus, he's definitely optional and a game-winning card when the situation calls for it. I'm also glad to see the addition of Mortal Coils work out, sometimes Abom/Hellfire just needs a bit more reach, which is what I aimed for with Thalnos to not-so-great an effect. If you end up including Leeroy, I'm sure the Mortal Coil on the Whelps that spawn are also a great method to keep alive even after the charge. Essentially, Leeroy is there to finish the game after the direct damage, Faceless/Power Overwhelming/Soulfire are all great methods.
I more or less shared the same sentiment, I moved away from Sense Demons and some other superfluous spells like Soulfire, cut down Shadowflame to one, and added a few more reliable minions. It keeps you off of a hand filled with spells mid-game to say the least.
I've thought about the inclusion of Mountain Giants, but playing those cards force you to tap into middle rounds or change the "core" of the deck to include more cantrips to keep Mountain Giants a threat. I run a giants lock deck on the side, but often times I find players just ignore your big creatures in favor of pushing you down in health or run direct remove such as Equality, Hunter's Mark, Sap, Tinkmaster, and others.
Of course, if you're at the point where you find heavier control decks, this might not be an issue, but with the rampant usage of Tinkmaster and The Black Knight, I tend to shy away from them as your first line of defense. I think I've said enough in a general sense, as the discussion should best revolve around the deck list as well.
The deck I have in the opening post is the current iteration. I sometimes swap out Ragnaros for a Tinkmaster Overspark when I'm feeling there are one too many Paladins or Druids in rotation.
I hope your reasoning against the addition of a card due to the fact you "won't always get them" is poorly worded, because that basis for not considering a card is horrible.
All 1-3 neutral mana taunts are garbage in terms of value as they sacrifice too much in terms of stats to gain the taunt effect sans Void Walker as a class card. Worgen Infiltrator isn't a bad card, but with no support early game I'm probably just going to slam it into a Novice or Loot Hoarder for negative value more often than not. I'll give him a shot, it's probably the only 1 drop I'll consider playing as it deters two mana 2 health creatures, but without a 1 damage ping, it falls hard on its face to 3 health creatures.
Honestly, a more reasonable approach is Mortal Coil to deal with common snowbally drops like Leper Gnome, Defias, Young Priestess and most opening Murlocs or add another Faerie Dragon, which is always a good form of board presence and actually have respectable stats if you could push her through with spells.
Went into ranked and continued to rank 8 in a couple games. That's enough for me today. Without being able to record it I decided to make a little report. The most difficult match-ups are against Rogues with a good amount of rush as well as direct damage. If you survive that, there's no stopping you. I met three Rogues, one Druid, one Warlock, one Paladin.
This deck had a perfect game vs. a late game Druid deck. Sylvanas was countered by Sylvanas + Power Overwhelming. Next turn he plays out Sunwalker to which I Soul Siphoned. Then Ancient of War, which I Leeroy + Power Overwhelming, then Ragnaros where I responded with Tinkmaster + Faceless. He conceded right after.
Another dominating game vs Paladin. He passed, I passed, summoned recruit, I coined Faerie, he equipped Sword of Justice and I knew I had the cards to deal with it. I healed my Faerie with Earthen Farseer to keep him from deciding to kill it. He 1/2'd my Faerie with a 4/4 Aldor that I swiftly responded to with Shadowbolt. Next was Pyro + Healing himself with Holy Light, to which I picked off the Pyro with my Earthen and played Sylvanas. Long story short, I survived two Equality + Avenging Wrath combos, once on my Sylvanas and once on a two Ragnaros board (the second was Faceless). I played Molten Giant on a clear board after his second equality + Avenging Wrath, he played Lay on Hands, and I Leeroy + Power Overwhelming and a Molten Giant to finish him.
Three Rogues - two of which were difficult fights. The first one rushed me using a plethora of low drops and Sap to bounce back my taunts. I lost on round 7. The second one followed the same playstyle, direct rush and silences. He barely beat me with a topdeck Shadowstep, having good ol' Leeroy. Finally, the third match was a wipe where the third Rogue had no answer for coin + Twilight Drake @ 8 health and was forced to burn Backstab, Eviscerate, and attacking into it with his dagger for a finish. Playing an Abomination, he foolishly attacked into it to clear along with Novice. I replied with hellfire to counter Shattered Sun Clerics with Novice Engineer. He played out some tauntless minions and finally a Leeroy with Power Overwhelming for the finish.
Warlock match was funny. I got rushed. Turn 5 double Molten Giants + Sunfury, he concede right then and there.
Thanks for reading, it was more for me to reanalyze my plays I made. One or two fatal mistakes were made, usually involving either playing or not playing Abomination. it's always a tough call. Quite the dangerous card in an equally dangerous deck, and I love it. Also, Rogues are annoying and plentiful because I'm sure they're fun to play. I'm loving how quickly the general offensive Rogue deck adapted to defensive play with Silences, Tinks & Saps. Druids and Control Warlocks beware!
True, Void Terror doesn't fit in the deck very well though. Anyways, I'm really liking Leeroy. I seem to have forgotten about my plan to include him in this deck alongside Shadowflame combos.
Stylistically, Alexstrasza no longer feels like a good late-game choice. It was excellent against the slew of burn-styled Mages in days past, but with their numbers dwindling down, the second reset to 15 health is no longer desirable nor needed against the opponent who will most likely be at lower health due to the mutual burn. While it does counter sustain, this deck has no issue against others in the long game to say the very least and shouldn't be very logical to pack a 9 mana card to do so.
As for the edition posted above that I'm testing at the moment, it's quite strong, although not a style of deck I like to play. You can just treat that as a new deck altogether and not under the label of this thread title.
My friend has run Jaden's deck to some interesting success, it looks good but I'm just not a big ran of Leeroy + Mind Control. Definitely can win you a game or two, or establish a stronger board presence if you already have minions out.
There's much less need for Sense Demons if you guys aren't going to be using the tokens for anything like Power Overwhelming. How are you guys finding Sense Demons at the moment? Are you finding use for it if you've already pulled Jaraxxus? Do you use the 1/1's efficiently in any way?
Now that the heavy amount of Mage decks are gone, I might not need Alex. If I remove Sense Demons as well, I have some dastardly changes that can be made. I'll have to put this deck in the lab a bit.
The test deck slightly further up, you can drop the Mountain Giant imo, he's a bit risky with all the burst or burn some classes have - rogue, warlock, warrior, pally... if you drop your health too early for card advantage, you'll be in quite a bit of trouble.
Trade out two Soulfires for two Harvest Golems or Faerie Dragon, it'll put some mileage in your early game if you want. Shadowflame can be put down to one for another card of your choice due to the lack of targets post-Jaraxxus. Mulligan aggressively and you should be fine.
Burn is on a very low list of problems, Jaraxxus is a reset to 15, Alex is a reset to 15. Soul Siphons and Earthens add up to a good 12 health.
And quite frankly, if you let a class keep all those cards (sans Mage) and you're somehow behind, you're likely doing something wrong because there's no good reason why they aren't getting pressure to death if they're holding onto their removal for direct damage.
Yep, same thing for now since there's no alternatives that I'm comfortable with in terms of minion structure. Maybe one Ooze for one Faerie to balance it out, a random card removed for Tinkermaster (more often than not Ragnaros), but I'm rolling with the base deck at the moment because it's more fun
2x Watchers are pretty cool though. Becomes quite fun, but the base deck doesn't have Argus so it's tough to make use of with just two Sunfuries and Shadowflames in the deck. I like them though, and I've been happy to mess around with it some more in time.
I'm really eyeing the removal of Soulfires, they're so good to close out a game or push for the win, but they've screwed me over once in a blue moon. Tough call, it's almost the perfect card in the game for Warlock as you can literally chock it up to "deal 4 damage to a target, 2 to your hero, draw a card".
On the same turn? Ancient of War + Innervate + Faceless is a common combo I use to close out the board. And often times, if you don't have an answer to one Ancient of War, another big drop follows because of the huge presence he has - this means it's easy to bait and you'll only lose a minion or two on a board that is about to be thrown into the nether-realm anyways.
Sometimes I want my opponent to set up two Ancient of Wars!
The introduction of Blademaster is interesting, I think your deck has space for Earthen Farseer if you want to push for more versatility in the minion, or just remove Blademaster completely for it because you have some room for more healing. You migrated towards more early game and you might have a decent amount of board presence, so in terms of play, just be choosey where you decide to Hellfire. The deck looks good if that's what you have so far to work with between a mix of defense and offensive with reliable minion, that's for sure.
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post
Yeah, often times I'd play the entire game 4, 5 turns into 10 mana without playing Jaraxxus, he's definitely optional and a game-winning card when the situation calls for it. I'm also glad to see the addition of Mortal Coils work out, sometimes Abom/Hellfire just needs a bit more reach, which is what I aimed for with Thalnos to not-so-great an effect. If you end up including Leeroy, I'm sure the Mortal Coil on the Whelps that spawn are also a great method to keep alive even after the charge. Essentially, Leeroy is there to finish the game after the direct damage, Faceless/Power Overwhelming/Soulfire are all great methods.
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post
I more or less shared the same sentiment, I moved away from Sense Demons and some other superfluous spells like Soulfire, cut down Shadowflame to one, and added a few more reliable minions. It keeps you off of a hand filled with spells mid-game to say the least.
I've thought about the inclusion of Mountain Giants, but playing those cards force you to tap into middle rounds or change the "core" of the deck to include more cantrips to keep Mountain Giants a threat. I run a giants lock deck on the side, but often times I find players just ignore your big creatures in favor of pushing you down in health or run direct remove such as Equality, Hunter's Mark, Sap, Tinkmaster, and others.
Of course, if you're at the point where you find heavier control decks, this might not be an issue, but with the rampant usage of Tinkmaster and The Black Knight, I tend to shy away from them as your first line of defense. I think I've said enough in a general sense, as the discussion should best revolve around the deck list as well.
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post
The deck I have in the opening post is the current iteration. I sometimes swap out Ragnaros for a Tinkmaster Overspark when I'm feeling there are one too many Paladins or Druids in rotation.
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post
I hope your reasoning against the addition of a card due to the fact you "won't always get them" is poorly worded, because that basis for not considering a card is horrible.
All 1-3 neutral mana taunts are garbage in terms of value as they sacrifice too much in terms of stats to gain the taunt effect sans Void Walker as a class card. Worgen Infiltrator isn't a bad card, but with no support early game I'm probably just going to slam it into a Novice or Loot Hoarder for negative value more often than not. I'll give him a shot, it's probably the only 1 drop I'll consider playing as it deters two mana 2 health creatures, but without a 1 damage ping, it falls hard on its face to 3 health creatures.
Honestly, a more reasonable approach is Mortal Coil to deal with common snowbally drops like Leper Gnome, Defias, Young Priestess and most opening Murlocs or add another Faerie Dragon, which is always a good form of board presence and actually have respectable stats if you could push her through with spells.
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post
Suggestions?
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post
Went into ranked and continued to rank 8 in a couple games. That's enough for me today. Without being able to record it I decided to make a little report. The most difficult match-ups are against Rogues with a good amount of rush as well as direct damage. If you survive that, there's no stopping you. I met three Rogues, one Druid, one Warlock, one Paladin.
This deck had a perfect game vs. a late game Druid deck. Sylvanas was countered by Sylvanas + Power Overwhelming. Next turn he plays out Sunwalker to which I Soul Siphoned. Then Ancient of War, which I Leeroy + Power Overwhelming, then Ragnaros where I responded with Tinkmaster + Faceless. He conceded right after.
Another dominating game vs Paladin. He passed, I passed, summoned recruit, I coined Faerie, he equipped Sword of Justice and I knew I had the cards to deal with it. I healed my Faerie with Earthen Farseer to keep him from deciding to kill it. He 1/2'd my Faerie with a 4/4 Aldor that I swiftly responded to with Shadowbolt. Next was Pyro + Healing himself with Holy Light, to which I picked off the Pyro with my Earthen and played Sylvanas. Long story short, I survived two Equality + Avenging Wrath combos, once on my Sylvanas and once on a two Ragnaros board (the second was Faceless). I played Molten Giant on a clear board after his second equality + Avenging Wrath, he played Lay on Hands, and I Leeroy + Power Overwhelming and a Molten Giant to finish him.
Three Rogues - two of which were difficult fights. The first one rushed me using a plethora of low drops and Sap to bounce back my taunts. I lost on round 7. The second one followed the same playstyle, direct rush and silences. He barely beat me with a topdeck Shadowstep, having good ol' Leeroy. Finally, the third match was a wipe where the third Rogue had no answer for coin + Twilight Drake @ 8 health and was forced to burn Backstab, Eviscerate, and attacking into it with his dagger for a finish. Playing an Abomination, he foolishly attacked into it to clear along with Novice. I replied with hellfire to counter Shattered Sun Clerics with Novice Engineer. He played out some tauntless minions and finally a Leeroy with Power Overwhelming for the finish.
Warlock match was funny. I got rushed. Turn 5 double Molten Giants + Sunfury, he concede right then and there.
Thanks for reading, it was more for me to reanalyze my plays I made. One or two fatal mistakes were made, usually involving either playing or not playing Abomination. it's always a tough call. Quite the dangerous card in an equally dangerous deck, and I love it. Also, Rogues are annoying and plentiful because I'm sure they're fun to play. I'm loving how quickly the general offensive Rogue deck adapted to defensive play with Silences, Tinks & Saps. Druids and Control Warlocks beware!
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post
True, Void Terror doesn't fit in the deck very well though. Anyways, I'm really liking Leeroy. I seem to have forgotten about my plan to include him in this deck alongside Shadowflame combos.
Stylistically, Alexstrasza no longer feels like a good late-game choice. It was excellent against the slew of burn-styled Mages in days past, but with their numbers dwindling down, the second reset to 15 health is no longer desirable nor needed against the opponent who will most likely be at lower health due to the mutual burn. While it does counter sustain, this deck has no issue against others in the long game to say the very least and shouldn't be very logical to pack a 9 mana card to do so.
As for the edition posted above that I'm testing at the moment, it's quite strong, although not a style of deck I like to play. You can just treat that as a new deck altogether and not under the label of this thread title.
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post
My friend has run Jaden's deck to some interesting success, it looks good but I'm just not a big ran of Leeroy + Mind Control. Definitely can win you a game or two, or establish a stronger board presence if you already have minions out.
There's much less need for Sense Demons if you guys aren't going to be using the tokens for anything like Power Overwhelming. How are you guys finding Sense Demons at the moment? Are you finding use for it if you've already pulled Jaraxxus? Do you use the 1/1's efficiently in any way?
Now that the heavy amount of Mage decks are gone, I might not need Alex. If I remove Sense Demons as well, I have some dastardly changes that can be made. I'll have to put this deck in the lab a bit.
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post
Yeah, they're far more consistent in my experience.
Silences aside, they take quite a good beating and 4 attack is perfect for many scenarios
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post
The base deck has Ragnaros.
The test deck slightly further up, you can drop the Mountain Giant imo, he's a bit risky with all the burst or burn some classes have - rogue, warlock, warrior, pally... if you drop your health too early for card advantage, you'll be in quite a bit of trouble.
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post
Trade out two Soulfires for two Harvest Golems or Faerie Dragon, it'll put some mileage in your early game if you want. Shadowflame can be put down to one for another card of your choice due to the lack of targets post-Jaraxxus. Mulligan aggressively and you should be fine.
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post
Burn is on a very low list of problems, Jaraxxus is a reset to 15, Alex is a reset to 15. Soul Siphons and Earthens add up to a good 12 health.
And quite frankly, if you let a class keep all those cards (sans Mage) and you're somehow behind, you're likely doing something wrong because there's no good reason why they aren't getting pressure to death if they're holding onto their removal for direct damage.
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post
Yep, same thing for now since there's no alternatives that I'm comfortable with in terms of minion structure. Maybe one Ooze for one Faerie to balance it out, a random card removed for Tinkermaster (more often than not Ragnaros), but I'm rolling with the base deck at the moment because it's more fun
2x Watchers are pretty cool though. Becomes quite fun, but the base deck doesn't have Argus so it's tough to make use of with just two Sunfuries and Shadowflames in the deck. I like them though, and I've been happy to mess around with it some more in time.
I'm really eyeing the removal of Soulfires, they're so good to close out a game or push for the win, but they've screwed me over once in a blue moon. Tough call, it's almost the perfect card in the game for Warlock as you can literally chock it up to "deal 4 damage to a target, 2 to your hero, draw a card".
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post
On the same turn? Ancient of War + Innervate + Faceless is a common combo I use to close out the board. And often times, if you don't have an answer to one Ancient of War, another big drop follows because of the huge presence he has - this means it's easy to bait and you'll only lose a minion or two on a board that is about to be thrown into the nether-realm anyways.
Sometimes I want my opponent to set up two Ancient of Wars!
http://www.youtube.com/user/vtxaishi
You're not going crazy, I edit 2~3 times each post