Greedy decks need a counter. Take away charge and what do aggro and Midrange players have?
Control hard counters aggro, especially face decks. What counters control is midrange which doesn't need chargers.
I'm still against nerfing charge. It would punish face decks and push tempo oriented aggro, which I want to avoid. Charge is neither OP nor uninteractive or frustrating. It can be countered, the difference to other threats is just that it has to be countered in advance (by heals or taunts), and I don't see the problem there.
Yeah let's nerf Stonetusk Boar, been so op for so long
Jokes on you, with quest rogue that card is suddenly a problem
haha are you fucking joking? Stonetusk boar is a problem? I made that comment sarcastically after quest rogue was a thing haha
Amusingly there was an interview recently and apparently Stonetusk Boar (for better or worse) has made it to where they had to scrap a bunch of designs. Not that I'm saying that means they need to destroy the card or anything, just that it's kind of hilarious to imagine a designer getting it played against them, having something ridiculously broken happen, and then mumbling under their breath that this card that no one's played competitively is ruining things for them.
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Yeah let's nerf Stonetusk Boar, been so op for so long
Jokes on you, with quest rogue that card is suddenly a problem
haha are you fucking joking? Stonetusk boar is a problem? I made that comment sarcastically after quest rogue was a thing haha
Amusingly there was an interview recently and apparently Stonetusk Boar (for better or worse) has made it to where they had to scrap a bunch of designs. Not that I'm saying that means they need to destroy the card or anything, just that it's kind of hilarious to imagine a designer getting it played against them, having something ridiculously broken happen, and then mumbling under their breath that this card that no one's played competitively is ruining things for them.
well that should've showed them that charge was a problematic mechanic from the start and that it only takes one card to break it
as for the argument that mid-range aggro decks need charge, No, they don't, take a great look at token Druid and Murloc mid-range Paladin, patches and bluegills are the only two minions that use charge in those decks and one of them doesn't even run patches, if charge minions could attack minions but not heroes the turn they were summoned those decks would still be able to use chargers as tempo-gaining/tempo-advantage tools and we'd get rid of the massive amount of problems that charge to face has created and will probably continue creating over the years.
@Infirc; eh, I don't think it's really indicative of the mechanic being broken. You're still going to have cards that limit what you can design, no matter what mechanics it uses. I might also be the minority here, but I don't think the current roster of Charge guys is all that oppressive either (especially since they printed a crazy amount of good taunts in Un'Goro). It was broken in Warrior in the sense that, for a very long time, they were able to give literally anything Charge.
Maybe down the line they do decide to nix cheap Charge guys (Leeroy should be a candidate for Hall of Fame before they bother nerfing him a third time), but even in something like Quest Rogue or Dinosize Combo Paladin (lol) it's still not a big enough deal overall to oust them quite yet. I do think we're probably going to continue to see very, very few normal Charge minions from here on out.
Also, I'd agree that Midrange/Aggro don't need Charge; my current Token Druid list skips Pirates and Murlocs completely, and it's been performing pretty well.
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Preemptive "i told you so" for when Blizzard nerfs Cube or one of the new amazing and fun warlock cards because of their interaction with charge instead of just nerfing charge.
why won't you guys admit that charge is the reason we can't have nice things?.
It's broken. They copied it from older games that were defender's choice without adequate consideration of the power level. Charge isn't a problem when you can choose a blocker.
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Charge is fine, this is a stupid thread. Taunt is an obvious counter. If you don't consider a Leeroy burst, then you're not good.
However, a neutral card to directly counter charge wouldn't be a horrible addition to HS. Maybe something similar to Noble Sacrifice. For example, a minion that says something like "when your opponent plays a charge minion and attacks, summon this from your hand. It attacks this instead.
Charge is pretty weak right now. Try building a deck around it and see.
Of course it is, you never see demons 5/7 charge don't you?
Three or so charge minions see play atm out of the dozens that exist. One might think those individual cards are strong and that has nothing to do with the mechanic. As said, try building a deck around charge.
And tbh the game was healthier back when Wolfrider saw play in aggro decks.
No, thanks. Changing charge this late in the game to hate on combo decks would kill a lot of my interest in the game since many of my meme decks are created through different decks that utilize charge in a non-aggro way for a win condition (including the deck currently in my sig). I don't want HS to turn into a 'control or bust' type of game.
Charge is a terrible mechanic in a game with 30 health and no ability to block. It should be removed completely.
Anyone who can't see the fundamental truth of this is either a brain-dead aggro freak, or else has never played an actual well-designed game before.
Taunt is HS's equivalent of a block. People just excuse it away 90% of the time because 'Durp, it 'blows' for control match-ups' (ie people are greedy when deck building).
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as for the argument that mid-range aggro decks need charge, No, they don't, take a great look at token Druid and Murloc mid-range Paladin, patches and bluegills are the only two minions that use charge in those decks and one of them doesn't even run patches, if charge minions could attack minions but not heroes the turn they were summoned those decks would still be able to use chargers as tempo-gaining/tempo-advantage tools and we'd get rid of the massive amount of problems that charge to face has created and will probably continue creating over the years.
@Infirc; eh, I don't think it's really indicative of the mechanic being broken. You're still going to have cards that limit what you can design, no matter what mechanics it uses. I might also be the minority here, but I don't think the current roster of Charge guys is all that oppressive either (especially since they printed a crazy amount of good taunts in Un'Goro). It was broken in Warrior in the sense that, for a very long time, they were able to give literally anything Charge.
Maybe down the line they do decide to nix cheap Charge guys (Leeroy should be a candidate for Hall of Fame before they bother nerfing him a third time), but even in something like Quest Rogue or Dinosize Combo Paladin (lol) it's still not a big enough deal overall to oust them quite yet. I do think we're probably going to continue to see very, very few normal Charge minions from here on out.
Also, I'd agree that Midrange/Aggro don't need Charge; my current Token Druid list skips Pirates and Murlocs completely, and it's been performing pretty well.
Articles I suggest every player reads to improve at the game;
MTG/Hearthstone biases to avoid
Reframing negative Hearthstone experiences to improve at the game
Who's the Beatdown?
Preemptive "i told you so" for when Blizzard nerfs Cube or one of the new amazing and fun warlock cards because of their interaction with charge instead of just nerfing charge.
why won't you guys admit that charge is the reason we can't have nice things?.
It's broken. They copied it from older games that were defender's choice without adequate consideration of the power level. Charge isn't a problem when you can choose a blocker.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
Why is this thread back again?
A simple counter:
2 manas 2/3, as long this card is in your hand all opponent minions lose charge.
You forced to keep a dead card in your hand but don't suffer with charge minions anymore.
Charge is ok in other games when you can act in opponent turn, in HS is waaaaaaaaaaay OP.
this thread sucks
Charge is pretty weak right now. Try building a deck around it and see.
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Charge is fine, this is a stupid thread. Taunt is an obvious counter. If you don't consider a Leeroy burst, then you're not good.
However, a neutral card to directly counter charge wouldn't be a horrible addition to HS. Maybe something similar to Noble Sacrifice. For example, a minion that says something like "when your opponent plays a charge minion and attacks, summon this from your hand. It attacks this instead.
Charge is a terrible mechanic in a game with 30 health and no ability to block. It should be removed completely.
Anyone who can't see the fundamental truth of this is either a brain-dead aggro freak, or else has never played an actual well-designed game before.
All the salt about charge minions.
No, thanks. Changing charge this late in the game to hate on combo decks would kill a lot of my interest in the game since many of my meme decks are created through different decks that utilize charge in a non-aggro way for a win condition (including the deck currently in my sig). I don't want HS to turn into a 'control or bust' type of game.