I can just imagine having no cards left in your deck, then shuffling something like C'Thun into your deck and drawing it next turn. The idea is cool, but reducing the cost to 0 is probably too much. As of now, targeting cards in your hand isn't a thing in Hearthstone, so I don't know how this would play out.
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In terms of idea and balance. It's very innovative and quite balanced.
A few problems though:
How would this work with the UI? How could you "target" a card in your hand.
Barnabus has proven that drawing 0-cost cards at this stage might not be too useful. I suppose you could do something like shuffle Time Warp if you don't have all the Exodia pieces...but you might get screwed by RNG
"it's" means "it is". The correct possessive form would be "its" without an apostrophe. (I am so sorry)
I was thinking that you all cards in your hand would start glowing with a special aura. Then you drag the card out of your hand as if you were playing it, thus triggering the effect. But yeah there's no real way to convey that currently with the current state of the game.
In terms of idea and balance. It's very innovative and quite balanced.
A few problems though:
How would this work with the UI? How could you "target" a card in your hand.
Barnabus has proven that drawing 0-cost cards at this stage might not be too useful. I suppose you could do something like shuffle Time Warp if you don't have all the Exodia pieces...but you might get screwed by RNG
"it's" means "it is". The correct possessive form would be "its" without an apostrophe. (I am so sorry)
I was thinking that you all cards in your hand would start glowing with a special aura. Then you drag the card out of your hand as if you were playing it, thus triggering the effect. But yeah there's no real way to convey that currently with the current state of the game.
I see. I could see that working out. It's weird, but they've done Curious Glimmerroot weird. Still, delaying your card for a reduced cost which might not even matter is still a problem.
Btw, any advice for my cards? I think I'm having writer's block...or erm, card creator's block.
This one is purely a flavorful idea I got in my head. I tried many variations around this idea, and this is the only one I could actually get within four lines, but the idea is generally the same. I also adore the art and want to use it in some way shape or form.
Coming up with the price for this card was hard. I originally wanted to make it cost 6, but looked at the power level of Siphon Soul and realized it was simply too good. I may even bump it up to 8. But it feels strange to have an 8 mana single target removal.
First card: Really clunky cards since Shaman already has an awkward enough curve with their Overload cards.
Second card: Good idea in paper but as someone points out, people can just not play one of the minions to avoid the negative effect.
Third card: A little too good IMO. Compare with Vilepine Slayer, an already good card that need to combo at 5 mana to activated and only a 3 drop body.
My 3 main ideas so far. As usual, a lot of these posts are rather complicated. That's not a bad thing, but I prefer more simple cards. They seem more realistic, imo.
Recruitment - A slimmed down version of my earlier 'Honor Among Thieves' idea. Rogue decks are packed with good combo and value minions, and getting an extra Auctioneer, Edwin, Malygos, Jade generator, Bounce minion, etc at a reduced cost would be incredibly powerful. Rogue spells are too good for them to get their own version of Shadow Visions / Primordial Glyph, but minions could work.
Pyromania - I'm not entirely sure how I feel about the numbers for this card. It helps draw a burn card in your deck (at random), and gives you a discount. I might make this a (3) with a cost reduction of (3) so you can't get anything free and not overpay for Flame Lance. I specifically wanted to avoid the aoe spells, because pulling them on demand might be too strong. I could also make a Frost version of this (Cryomania) but Frostbolt is the only single target Frost spell that costs mana.
Incinerate - A tempo spell just makes sense. However, I'm not sure if the (3) for 3 is good enough to justify the later cost reduction. Again, I'll play with the numbers and the class.
Recruitment is the best idea of the class but I just concern that it won't be flashy enough to get vote. Although you can make a case it'd be a little too good for Quest Rogue.
I'm sure we will see a ton of varied ideas this week. I was hoping for some feedback on these. Thanks.
Azeroth Flagbearer is the best idea here. The other two is just too awkward with the first one let your opponent can have enough mana to answer your minion while the second one create a swingy deck, which is NOT a design I personally want to add.
My idea:
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Just some Mill Rogue tools. Considering Brann exists in Wild, perhaps it needs to be changed so that it's not a Battlecry, or reduce the cost reduction to (1)?
@thepowrofcheese Pyromania is the best, as you said, the numbers ar hard, you can just put a Fireball in your deck and becomes a 1 mana draw a Fireball.
@Cogito_Ergo_Sum I also like making complex cards. Prefer the third one, its suposed to give the three cards? since each one have his own class color,
@HenryXLII I like more Soul trap, but you need adjust the token card cost, since its a removal+minion.
@Shatterstar1998 i like more the second one, i think its balanced, look at the 3/2 little mage.
Some excellent options include Purify, Shadow Word: Horror, Dragonfire Potion and Netherspite Historian (for dragon decks) as these cards will be largely garbage for your opponent and great for you. You can also use it to get the last card your opponent played on their turn, or a copy of a card you stole from them!
Today in my free brawl pack I got Barongeddon, then I had a cup of fresh green tea. As a result of that, I think Priest is OP because my keyboard is not a mechanical one. I hope Blizzard will address this issue.
I originally tried making a spell with the same effect as the Battlecry but when I saw this awesome art (for Ghostly Charger, from the original WoW card game), I knew it had to be a minion. I'm not sure how to value this effect, but I figure the more expensive is more balanced due to abuses Rogues could potentially do with Malygos or simply with Crystal Core. I gave him taunt because you're spending a lot of mana and presumably leaving yourself open by returning your minions to your hand.
I think he's probably too expensive, even though Shadowstepping your whole board could be pretty nice depending on the deck.
In my final version, remind me to give the beast tag, btw.
This effect only discounts your copies of cards you've played prior to playing this minion. So if you played Babbling Book, Frostbolt, and Fireball prior to playing this minion, all other copies of those cards in your deck or hand AND any copies you may acquire from other means (i.e. Cabalist's Tome) would cost (1) less.
This effect only discounts your copies of cards you've played prior to playing this minion. So if you played Babbling Book, Frostbolt, and Fireball prior to playing this minion, all other copies of those cards in your deck or hand AND any copies you may acquire from other means (i.e. Cabalist's Tome) would cost (1) less.
This is really confusing, even with your explanation. So, it discounts every future card played that fits the criteria, even ones you create after setting off the Battlecry, but the effect doesn't update as you play new cards? That seems inconsistent. There's gotta be an easier way to do this.
Some excellent options include Purify, Shadow Word: Horror, Dragonfire Potion and Netherspite Historian (for dragon decks) as these cards will be largely garbage for your opponent and great for you. You can also use it to get the last card your opponent played on their turn, or a copy of a card you stole from them!
I don't think this combo would be much of a problem due to how hard it is to pull off. It would be funny to build a deck around though :P
You'd need an auctioneer to survive a turn while you have both Premonitions in hand. Then play the first Premonition, then the second. The auctioneer draws before the 0 mana Premonition gets put on your deck. Now you need to draw a card but the only way to do that without breaking the combo by making the last card played not Premonition, is to play a third Premonition. A likely way to get that would be Shadow Visions. Cool combo, but probably not viable in ladder.
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This is really confusing, even with your explanation. So, it discounts every future card played that fits the criteria, even ones you create after setting off the Battlecry, but the effect doesn't update as you play new cards? That seems inconsistent. There's gotta be an easier way to do this.
Well, its snapshots when Lili is played and basically says "all copies (in your hand/deck/later generated) of cards you've played to this point will cost (1) less."
I'm not sure how to best to word it to convey that or just limit it to copies in your hand/deck and exclude future generated copies.
This is really confusing, even with your explanation. So, it discounts every future card played that fits the criteria, even ones you create after setting off the Battlecry, but the effect doesn't update as you play new cards? That seems inconsistent. There's gotta be an easier way to do this.
Well, its snapshots when Lili is played and basically says "all copies (in your hand/deck/later generated) of cards you've played to this point will cost (1) less."
I'm not sure how to best to word it to convey that or just limit it to copies in your hand/deck and exclude future generated copies.
I think if you just limited it to stuff currently in your hand and deck it would be a lot clearer.
@shatterstar - I like the idea of having a Deathrattle effect that reduces cost! I think you might need to shave off one stat point though, considering the tempo boost from the card, and the Elemental tag.
@J1633 - I also like complex cards since they can add interesting conditions for activating effects. I like the idea of Assault leader alot, but think it needs to be reworded. Maybe something like Battlecry: Reduce the cost of cards in your hand by (1) if their mana cost is higher than your mana crystals. Think File's Keeper might be a bit broken for three mana, maybe increase the cost, or make it a legendary.
@AngryChicken - I agree with Nurgling the wording is very clunky and vague. You could reword it so that for the rest of the game the second copy of any card you play costs (x) less.
@Dillerion - My favorite card is Ashka, seems like a great idea. The best part is that the more you draw cards the less likely it is that one single card will get a massive cost reduction, so it kind of balances itself. I do think that the cost is a bit low, even with the stat line. Great idea though!
In practice, the stats might not have much effect. And you're not really determined to kill the RNG-based card. So maybe bump up the stats just slightly (Maybe a 5/4 or 4/5?)
Idea critism:
Love the flavour, and I like how the last card is ironically given some usefulness. Though I suppose the point of utlising cards that are deep in your deck is that you need to find the specific card you need to do a certain objective (e.g. Yogg-Saron, Hope's End). Getting a random card stuck in your deck might not be as useful as you think it may be. An extra card is still valuable though.
Again, seems a bit too RNG based for its stats. You're not even sure if you are reducing an expensive card. Regardless, this is like a wierd form of drawing cards sooooo...your choice.
Players might lose track of the amount of reduction. Not really significant, but eh, it's there.
Overall Impression:
I think it's a card with an interesting effect and use of reduction. However, its low stats and RNG-based abilities might hinder it in being useful or impactful. I suggest you change one of them.
P.S. I am really sorry if I sound like a know-it-all. I'm not really good at balancing cards (see mine) nor critiquing them so you should take my advice with a grain of salt.
Thanks for the very detailed feedback. Much appreciated. I changed the wording and effect quite a bit, so that's how that happened. Thanks for pointing it out.
Yeah, for balance I used Loot Hoarder and Azure Drake. The thing is, cost reduction is actually somewhat difficult to balance since we have not many cards around with a direct effect and this is continuous. But after some more thinking you might be right. Initially, I wanted to make it 4 mana but then Polluted Hoarder kinda makes it hard to get good stats on it. Maybe I just go with 5/4.
The thing about "last card of your deck" is more because it's very difficult to write that effect without it changing the target "Reduce the Cost of a random card in your deck by (1)" doesn't mesh well with "Add it to your hand", so this was simply an elegant way to keep the same target. And yes, this is a card draw, so there is nothing really random about it. For the player the "next card" and "last card" is virtually the same.
Wow, this is a tough one for me. Balancing the reduction of cards isn't exactly a walk in the park. Plus, I make too OP and complex cards :P. Regardless, your thoughts on cooling the power levels on these abysmal cards?
Doug's Deals:
Gang of Thieves is way too similar in cost, stat and effect to Ethereal Peddler. In most cases it is a worse version or equal at best.
Grimoire of Supremacy is effectively a much worse Summoning Portal. You pay more, have no body, it's a one-time effect, needs to be played last, reduction is often just (1), costs way too much, tribe specific etc etc It's really, weak. The design itself is a bit too specific for my liking - both in target and trigger.
Doug's tokens feels weird and not consistent. The problem is that the triggers are very clunky to ever happen apart from Zinger (which is an interesting card btw - that on a body would make for an interesting card in some classes), so in most cases this is a direct effect without scaling. I'm not even sure if you can trigger Zengar in warrior in the current rotation. Also, it kinda feels like cost reduction is just a byproduct and not the focus, which is kinda cheating the theme imo.
So while the idea is neat, it doesn't fit this week, unless you rework it so that all three cards are like Zapper with class-specific triggers. Zapper: Reduce cost for... every Silver Hand recruit? I dunno what is balanced here. Zenger: Reduce cost of a card/minion/all minions for every damaged friendly minion. Zinger: Reduce cost for every friendly beast. Difficult to balance these so they are roughly equal. Also, it's a 1 mana EXTRA spell from a decent body, so it shouldn't debuff all cards.
Sorry for being so negative about your concepts, but I'd rather advise to start from scratch with something else.
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Your Purified Revenant is an interesting design choice, and I applaud you for that, but I don't know it's balanced or not.
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Just some Mill Rogue tools. Considering Brann exists in Wild, perhaps it needs to be changed so that it's not a Battlecry, or reduce the cost reduction to (1)?
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@thepowrofcheese Pyromania is the best, as you said, the numbers ar hard, you can just put a Fireball in your deck and becomes a 1 mana draw a Fireball.
@Cogito_Ergo_Sum I also like making complex cards. Prefer the third one, its suposed to give the three cards? since each one have his own class color,
@HenryXLII I like more Soul trap, but you need adjust the token card cost, since its a removal+minion.
@Shatterstar1998 i like more the second one, i think its balanced, look at the 3/2 little mage.
So new my ideas so far
#gNOmeferatu
I originally tried making a spell with the same effect as the Battlecry but when I saw this awesome art (for Ghostly Charger, from the original WoW card game), I knew it had to be a minion. I'm not sure how to value this effect, but I figure the more expensive is more balanced due to abuses Rogues could potentially do with Malygos or simply with Crystal Core. I gave him taunt because you're spending a lot of mana and presumably leaving yourself open by returning your minions to your hand.
I think he's probably too expensive, even though Shadowstepping your whole board could be pretty nice depending on the deck.
In my final version, remind me to give the beast tag, btw.
This effect only discounts your copies of cards you've played prior to playing this minion. So if you played Babbling Book, Frostbolt, and Fireball prior to playing this minion, all other copies of those cards in your deck or hand AND any copies you may acquire from other means (i.e. Cabalist's Tome) would cost (1) less.
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That's my ideas for this week
You'd need an auctioneer to survive a turn while you have both Premonitions in hand. Then play the first Premonition, then the second. The auctioneer draws before the 0 mana Premonition gets put on your deck. Now you need to draw a card but the only way to do that without breaking the combo by making the last card played not Premonition, is to play a third Premonition. A likely way to get that would be Shadow Visions. Cool combo, but probably not viable in ladder.
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Thanks for the feedback
@shatterstar - I like the idea of having a Deathrattle effect that reduces cost! I think you might need to shave off one stat point though, considering the tempo boost from the card, and the Elemental tag.
@J1633 - I also like complex cards since they can add interesting conditions for activating effects. I like the idea of Assault leader alot, but think it needs to be reworded. Maybe something like Battlecry: Reduce the cost of cards in your hand by (1) if their mana cost is higher than your mana crystals. Think File's Keeper might be a bit broken for three mana, maybe increase the cost, or make it a legendary.
@AngryChicken - I agree with Nurgling the wording is very clunky and vague. You could reword it so that for the rest of the game the second copy of any card you play costs (x) less.
@Dillerion - My favorite card is Ashka, seems like a great idea. The best part is that the more you draw cards the less likely it is that one single card will get a massive cost reduction, so it kind of balances itself. I do think that the cost is a bit low, even with the stat line. Great idea though!
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