Don't know why you say 2 at once. You mean after the spell? When playing against this deck I see early Mountain Giant more often than not. Either they mulligan it or draw it with Arcane Intellect or Sandbinder. Then once they get that spell off it's a big problem. Some deck can deal with it better than others but I thing it should be enough to warp the meta pretty soon.
Isn't that he issue? Two Giants at once. It certainly cannot be a single early Mountain Giant, they were coming turn 3 with Even Warlocks not long ago, and that is if you ignore them coming turn 4 for Handlocks since Beta at the least.
I'm assuming the problem comes from the opponent drawing both Giant and Conjurer's and playing them both early in the game, which is not a particularly common thing statistically speaking.
It's very much no ta common thing, especially since you have to have both Conjure's and Book and get a giant in hand in time to pull it off. And even then, you can't fling it out turn 3 since any midrange or stronger deck would have a way to deal with a single giant (tempo or aggro should be slaughtering you for going 3 turns without even a hero power). Even Warlocks were around when aggro was flat out dead and tempo was slow. handlocks flat out mulliganed away giants if they were against aggro if they wanted a chance at winning.
Basically we'd have to have no aggro or fast tempo in the game for this deck to keep doing what it's doing. That CAN happen of course. If any fast deck shows up though, mages will need to adjust.
Calling is not an above average card when cast on things not named Mountain Giant. The problem is that the pool of 12 drops is to narrow and that Mountain Giant can be discounted down to 3 - 4 mana. Without Mountain Giant in the deck you're powerful play is what? (That's an honest question)
Nerf all cards in the whole game. God, these threads...
Well, neither this kind of threads are SO useful, neither comments like yours, who obviously are against nerfs, are useful. If you are against the nerfs state it with facts. Elsewhere don't comment on these "annoying threads" , just to be salty on salty people mr captain obvious.
I would much prefer a single thread (after each nerf announcement) that people would discuss all nerfs there(and not a nerf card-separate thread) as well as how it would affect the meta, what decks will be more powerful, what cards will enable them so and if we should keep an eye on them and so on.
Two giants is a problem. Two Grave Horrors is a MUCH bigger problem. If they get a Grave Horror off that first early Conj they can stabilize against aggro.
The combo doesn't always go down super early but it's really powerful in the midgame too. Early is bad, but in the midgame they might be able to cast it twice or cast with Khadgar. There aren't a lot of answers to the big Khadgar boards just like there aren't many answers to Nomi.
They don't just draw the combo cards. They can tutor Giant with Sandbinder. They can generate Conj with Cyclone. It's a really powerful deck with lots of options.
This. When i did see cyclone i wanted to craft a deck but needed the cyclone´s so i hesitated but a week later i did it and combined a cyclone mage with Khadgar. The deck is very powerful. I even play only one giant but double sandbinder and cyclone ...
How are people always so Salty about things that stop the decks that they like to play?
Pretty much any Mage deck that plays this card gets over run by aggro. Plain and simple. I HATE HATE HATE playing Hunter decks. But because I saw so many Mage decks with this card, I changed up my play style and played Mid-range Hunter and owned them.
Not to mention, Bomb Warrior and Tempo Rogue own these decks.
Don't know why you say 2 at once. You mean after the spell? When playing against this deck I see early Mountain Giant more often than not. Either they mulligan it or draw it with Arcane Intellect or Sandbinder. Then once they get that spell off it's a big problem. Some deck can deal with it better than others but I thing it should be enough to warp the meta pretty soon.
Isn't that he issue? Two Giants at once. It certainly cannot be a single early Mountain Giant, they were coming turn 3 with Even Warlocks not long ago, and that is if you ignore them coming turn 4 for Handlocks since Beta at the least.
I'm assuming the problem comes from the opponent drawing both Giant and Conjurer's and playing them both early in the game, which is not a particularly common thing statistically speaking.
can agree with you but he got a good point. Grave Horror is actually a very very strong minion to get fron Conjurers Calling. Its almost imposible to past over him on turn 4-5 and the fact that you need to remove him AND the other minion both in the same turn to stop the Next Calling is pretty unfair, sometimes, for the standard format in this moment. Them again combo decks are supposed to play for the most unfairs plays that you can push as early as you can.
Conjurer Mage is one of the few decks keeping Control Warrior in check, so nerfing it will be bad for the meta. It's pretty weak against aggro decks and is not even Tier 1.
Are you guys all playing with an outdated bad version of this or what? The cyclone versions has decent early game while a good opening hand is just game winning. I suggest you netdeck asmodai’s list and play with it. Mirror image, sorcerer apprentice, magic trick, magic, trick , elemental invocTion, ray of frost, ray of frost, cyclone refill whole hand is your typical turn 2-3 play. So yes conjurers calling needs a nerf, mage fanboys will of course disagree.
Conjurer Mage is one of the few decks keeping Control Warrior in check, so nerfing it will be bad for the meta. It's pretty weak against aggro decks and is not even Tier 1.
It's not Tier 1? If not, it's only due to the high skill required to win with Plans B, C, and D. This deck is being played a lot at highest legend.
Play agro, this deck have no damage spells and will be dead until it can pull out a giant unless he draws like a god
Wouldn't say that. WIth 1 giant in hand, a mage that goes second can play a giant on turn 3 thanks to Book of Specters. And even with just a giant in hand they can play one on turn 4 after playing one or two Firetree Witchdoctors which counter any early game pressure. And then the 8/8 on turn 4 HAS to be dealt with, unless you want to risk facing three 12-mana creatures on turn 5 (since Coin+Conjurer's Calling exists. And there you are, with nothing on board, facing a one-turn or at worst two-turn lethal. And what did the Mage need to do for that? Draw two cards. And this is the problem. As soon as the first Conjurer's Calling is played, players need to deal with the 7/8 and the 8/8 immediately, unless they want to die. Leaving one up is not a solution and putting up a big minion also results in a trade and another two 8/8s. And all this is a general situation, not godly draw. The card itself is alright, the existence of Mountain Giant (and Book of Specters) turn it into a nightmare.
Also, you can play only minions that generate other cards or your Mountain Giants are coming late. Oh, and you need to convert the Giant into 7/8 taunt.
Some Magic players call Hearthstone simplistic and repetitive. I defend it but when I see all these Mages these days I think they have a point.
Fill your hand. Play Giant. Play Conjurer's Calling. Boom you're already forcing your opponent to move mountains (literally) to keep you from steamrolling him.
A deck this powerful that wins by repeating the same exact early game gimmick time after time needs to be addressed. Not sure if it's overpowered but it feels terrible to play against.
The easiest way to nerf it would to be making a bad statted 12 drop. This way you need to get more luck to have a decent result out of Mountain giants.
Guys I'm not talking about the minion heavy, dragon, etc. Conjurer Mage. That is trash compared to this deck. HSReplay is calling it "Spell Mage". It shows it as Tier 3, but it's Tier 2 at least right now. The winrate is sub-50% due to it being diluted by a bunch of worse versions of the deck and because it's more skill intensive...and also because people were losing with it more during the experimental phase. It can get rushed down by aggro/tempo but has more tools to deal with it than "Dragon Mage" etc. and is very capable of stabilizing. It's very flexible. It can win against any deck and almost auto-wins when it draws the nuts.
Conjurer Mage is one of the few decks keeping Control Warrior in check, so nerfing it will be bad for the meta. It's pretty weak against aggro decks and is not even Tier 1.
It's not Tier 1? If not, it's only due to the high skill required to win with Plans B, C, and D. This deck is being played a lot at highest legend.
you need to keep in mind that the only reason that makes this deck not tier one is that you will probably lose if you cant combo before turn 7 and sometimes you just not draw your giants in time or you are forced to play one giant and you oponent trade it. Its actually a realistic outcome in a good % of the games BUT that not means that the power level of the combo perse is not big enough to complain about it.
Conjurer Mage is one of the few decks keeping Control Warrior in check, so nerfing it will be bad for the meta. It's pretty weak against aggro decks and is not even Tier 1.
Good point but is it an optimal situation to have a disgustingly unfair deck just so it can keep control of another super unfair deck? The problem is that after the rotation, there aren't really any answers to Giant+Conjurer and Dr.Boom. There will always be a best deck but it doesn't matter how bad it feels to play against. Devs keep citing that they monitor the opinion of the playerbase too (don't ask how is Big Priest still alive then) so these threads with proper discussion have a point, unlike the comments saying "keep crying you salty this and that" because that's what the cool kids do.
Conj mage gets smashed by aggro. Aggro just got stronger with the rogue nerf. Inc hunter/zoo/murloc meta. I seriously doubt that mage will be top tier.
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It's very much no ta common thing, especially since you have to have both Conjure's and Book and get a giant in hand in time to pull it off. And even then, you can't fling it out turn 3 since any midrange or stronger deck would have a way to deal with a single giant (tempo or aggro should be slaughtering you for going 3 turns without even a hero power). Even Warlocks were around when aggro was flat out dead and tempo was slow. handlocks flat out mulliganed away giants if they were against aggro if they wanted a chance at winning.
Basically we'd have to have no aggro or fast tempo in the game for this deck to keep doing what it's doing. That CAN happen of course. If any fast deck shows up though, mages will need to adjust.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
Summoner mage it's such a dog shit...
Calling is not an above average card when cast on things not named Mountain Giant. The problem is that the pool of 12 drops is to narrow and that Mountain Giant can be discounted down to 3 - 4 mana. Without Mountain Giant in the deck you're powerful play is what? (That's an honest question)
My proposed change is to 'nerf' Zayle, Shadow Cloak and Whizbang the Wonderful to 12 mana to broaden the twelve drop pool and make calling on Mountain Giant much less powerful, without impacting anything serious.
Well, neither this kind of threads are SO useful, neither comments like yours, who obviously are against nerfs, are useful. If you are against the nerfs state it with facts. Elsewhere don't comment on these "annoying threads" , just to be salty on salty people mr captain obvious.
I would much prefer a single thread (after each nerf announcement) that people would discuss all nerfs there(and not a nerf card-separate thread) as well as how it would affect the meta, what decks will be more powerful, what cards will enable them so and if we should keep an eye on them and so on.
Peace bro
This. When i did see cyclone i wanted to craft a deck but needed the cyclone´s so i hesitated but a week later i did it and combined a cyclone mage with Khadgar. The deck is very powerful. I even play only one giant but double sandbinder and cyclone ...
Feeling bad to play against hardly qualifies it as needing of a nerf.
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How are people always so Salty about things that stop the decks that they like to play?
Pretty much any Mage deck that plays this card gets over run by aggro. Plain and simple. I HATE HATE HATE playing Hunter decks. But because I saw so many Mage decks with this card, I changed up my play style and played Mid-range Hunter and owned them.
Not to mention, Bomb Warrior and Tempo Rogue own these decks.
can agree with you but he got a good point. Grave Horror is actually a very very strong minion to get fron Conjurers Calling. Its almost imposible to past over him on turn 4-5 and the fact that you need to remove him AND the other minion both in the same turn to stop the Next Calling is pretty unfair, sometimes, for the standard format in this moment. Them again combo decks are supposed to play for the most unfairs plays that you can push as early as you can.
Conjurer Mage is one of the few decks keeping Control Warrior in check, so nerfing it will be bad for the meta. It's pretty weak against aggro decks and is not even Tier 1.
Hunter is going to be the problem after these nerfs, not mage.
#nerfbarnes
Are you guys all playing with an outdated bad version of this or what? The cyclone versions has decent early game while a good opening hand is just game winning. I suggest you netdeck asmodai’s list and play with it. Mirror image, sorcerer apprentice, magic trick, magic, trick , elemental invocTion, ray of frost, ray of frost, cyclone refill whole hand is your typical turn 2-3 play. So yes conjurers calling needs a nerf, mage fanboys will of course disagree.
It's not Tier 1? If not, it's only due to the high skill required to win with Plans B, C, and D. This deck is being played a lot at highest legend.
In your scenario:
You need to have Conjurer's Calling, Book of Specters and have or draw Mountain Giant. Also, you need to have Firetree Witchdoctor and at least one dragon. You need to draw minions only with your Book of Specters and avoid spells.
This does not happen that often, trust me.
Also, you can play only minions that generate other cards or your Mountain Giants are coming late. Oh, and you need to convert the Giant into 7/8 taunt.
--Alfi--
The easiest way to nerf it would to be making a bad statted 12 drop. This way you need to get more luck to have a decent result out of Mountain giants.
Always expect the unexpectable!
just change Doomsayer to 12 mana and the problem is fixed /s
Guys I'm not talking about the minion heavy, dragon, etc. Conjurer Mage. That is trash compared to this deck. HSReplay is calling it "Spell Mage". It shows it as Tier 3, but it's Tier 2 at least right now. The winrate is sub-50% due to it being diluted by a bunch of worse versions of the deck and because it's more skill intensive...and also because people were losing with it more during the experimental phase. It can get rushed down by aggro/tempo but has more tools to deal with it than "Dragon Mage" etc. and is very capable of stabilizing. It's very flexible. It can win against any deck and almost auto-wins when it draws the nuts.
you need to keep in mind that the only reason that makes this deck not tier one is that you will probably lose if you cant combo before turn 7 and sometimes you just not draw your giants in time or you are forced to play one giant and you oponent trade it. Its actually a realistic outcome in a good % of the games BUT that not means that the power level of the combo perse is not big enough to complain about it.
Just make it 5 mana. Cause nerfing to 4 mana doesn't really change anything
Good point but is it an optimal situation to have a disgustingly unfair deck just so it can keep control of another super unfair deck? The problem is that after the rotation, there aren't really any answers to Giant+Conjurer and Dr.Boom. There will always be a best deck but it doesn't matter how bad it feels to play against. Devs keep citing that they monitor the opinion of the playerbase too (don't ask how is Big Priest still alive then) so these threads with proper discussion have a point, unlike the comments saying "keep crying you salty this and that" because that's what the cool kids do.
Conj mage gets smashed by aggro. Aggro just got stronger with the rogue nerf. Inc hunter/zoo/murloc meta. I seriously doubt that mage will be top tier.