Hearthpwn

"I made sure that you get to go first this time."

I tend to avoid games that I don't like to play.  I also, for reasons we don't have to go into, try to avoid getting really angry at people.  As such, I really don't have many places that make me just go "oh what the #()$#" without the self-placed censor.

I've yet to have a run with Wisdom that didn't give me that experience at least twice.  I make #()$#( well sure I pick him every single time. I literally don't even look at what the other options are once I know he's one of them. 

If anyone dare gets Blizzard to change him so that he's no longer ..well... him I'll be blunt: I hope you'll die soon after.

Sidenote: I've yet to see him change the mana of a card for the better.  It HAS to be programmed that way.  

Quote from Chimera >>

Quote from Nilo >>

i'll definitely be using outof.cards once they change the design and add some trophies or ranks.

 There will most likely be alternative skins for the site over time to make that customizable. Can't please everyone! Until you can.

 As to the other, they have said that they plan to incorporate everything from here over there, but it will take time to do so, especially since right now they have to care for both sites until this one shuts down.

Quote from LaFlame3500 >>

Quote from MeSoHahny >>

chill out and go to outof.cards

 ... So there are two hearthpwns.. 

 Imagine if you rented out a home that you host parties in.  People love coming to your parties so all is well.  

But then you find out the old landlord sold the house to a new landlord who is now making changes that make it more annoying for you, like not fix things that are broken or require you to park your car down the street for no reason.  

Then they decide to move you out of the home in a few months.  So you decide to go build your own home and just host the parties there.

THAT is what hearthpwn is going through.  It's less about money and more that the folks of Curse, who own the underlying site, don't really care much.  

The folks ofoutof.cards are the folks who have been maintainiing hearthpwn and keeping it going who are about to get kicked out.  They have been working on a new site for a while now in preparation and decided to officially mark that this is where the new party is.  It'll be owned by themselves and not by folks who don't give a care and, thus, will be easier for them to manage properly.

So it's not so much two hearthpwns as it is one heathpwn that's shutting down and a new better place coming up in its stead.  

As far as wher to go.. just go there and call it a day basically.

Quote from Kamamura >>

SQuote from Bee >>

This is the worst thread… ever.

 Quite the opposite. Things have finally set into motion, and currently, a bill with bi-partisan support is proposed to strictly regulate what is now viewed as predatory business practices aimed at minors who are less capable to resist exploiting psychological impulses related to gambling - namely lootboxes. There are scientific studies that lootboxes are really capable of tricking people (and ESPECIALLY minors) into spending unreasonable amounts of money, that the number of adolescent gamblers quadrupled in the UK due to similar schemes used by mobile games, and thus, as a form of gambling, it should be both heavily taxed and regulated, i.e. inaccessible to minors. 

According to Beligan law, lootboxes are already illegal predatory business practice. 

All in all, it seems that the children's card game will soon become and adult only card game. 

 Basically this.

We can mock and joke about it all we want but I'm pretty sure a lot of us have been looking at how the video game industry has been using microtransactions lately.  The Star Wars BF2 issue was meant to be a wake up call: find a way to manage your excess or have the whole thing shut down.  

And all they've done is get even worse with it.  Now you get games that go without any shops on release then introduce them later, games that flat out gut the experience post-release to make it more appealing to buy from the shop than play the game as is, and so on.  And honestly, you are lucky to have dodged even nastier stuff like gacha sets (which only stopped because they were outlawed in certain key countries).  

Harping about personal responsibility makes sense but just because you were fool enough to leave a car door open with the keys inside doesn't give me a pass to go take your car.  Neither is it ok to run a ponzi scheme just because people are being warned about them.  

More so because a lot of the folks who get into microtransactions are new players just becoming heavy gamers.  That's WHY these games stay popular despite the constant flood of "I'll never play a game like that again." posts.  For every person who's realized how nasty they get a new youngin who only knows of the game through their friends gets into Black Ops 4 and Clash Royale and thinks nothing of it.  

It would be awesome if the industry could regulate themselves similar to what they did with the ESRB.  But they are addicted to it as well to the point where they can't make a game without microtransactions for fear of investors tearing them apart.  Honestly there's technically still time.  The industry can still offer an alternative to calm congress, again like they did with game age ratings.  

If they literally can't even go that far then so be it.  I like hearthstone and epic seven but I won't accept the path gaming is going just to keep them around.

Quote from Lyra_Silvertongue >>

The problem is most people don't want a back and forth logical discussion about 90% of the things they talk about. They want a sounding board where they can insist that their feelings and opinions are objective and close down logical points that defeat their argument in many cases.

 

 That, to me, is the main purpose of the rant thread.  It provides a place where you get to sound out your issues and not have to worry about counterarguments.  Sometimes people want a discussion and to logically sort through matters.  Sometimes people just want to be able to express their emotions and yell into the wind.  Both elements are valid and important for people to have.  

The rant board existing means that we can assume that posts outside of it want logical discussion while posts inside of it want the sounding board.  Thus I feel acceptable to support, critique, and generally throw 10 page essays at posts here while leaving all posts inside at peace.  I also know that if I DO have a bad day a the game I have a place where I can write what I want without worrying about pissing of, or being pissed off, by the community who is forced to read it.  

They did.  Dean Ayala, aka Iksar, was one of the upper end of players during the Beta when he started working with Team 5 on card design, then was later hired about a year later.

The patches situation was a matter of not looking at the correct data.  They were focused on win rates and "OPness" at the time and, despite what many like to cry out about it, pirate warrior did NOT win most of its matches.  In fact, from a pure data perspective, the meta was very balanced and diverse with a lot of different decks being used.

Those people who look at that last sentence and going "BULL@#$()#(!".. yeah. that's the problem.  The actual data showed one thing but the game FELT like something else.  It took them several months to realize that perception matters A LOT and that while someone crying "it sucks" may not have the reason correct, they are correct that SOMETHING is making it feel sucky.

Since then they've become sensitive towards elements that will make the game feel horrible, which is why a lot of the current nerfs have been less about 'OPness" and more about things like polarization, or general 'feels bad to play against'. 

I'm guessing the current Snip Snap is similar: their data shows that the decks made out of it won't be OP but that we're already screaming about it means no one is going to like actually losing to the thing.

I tend to be rather dense so I might be missing it but, what exactly should I be raging about?

I see wonderous wand seeing bomb as an option, which I assume was put into your deck.  Should that...not happen?  If so.. why?

If that's not it.. what is it?

Quote from 0wing >>

Link the stream pls.

 Very. So much hoping there's a VOd or preferably youtube vid of this.  

It's been a long time since I've seen a "F2P-legendary" run.  Trump's old ones were what got me to start enjoying heathstone.  It's awesome to see it started up again and grats on doing it.

Oh.. and I had such a hard time finding a druid deck to run so *shameless theft*

You were being hyperbolic and during a time when we spent the last YEAR with the meta being a late game control/combo fest.  It wasn't a request for discussion, didn't ask any questions and didn't seem interested in counter opinions. 

Even if it did, all of that goes out of the window when this gets said:

Time to uninstall. I am not playing even for daily quests anymore anyway because game got really boring. 

If you are done playing then..well, you're done playing.  If you uninstalled then you are definitely done playing.  So what sort of discussion are you after?  A mass of folks joining in to declare that they are done with the game?   Those people are busy playing games they like and posting in forums about THAT game to talk about something they like. 

If you had meant to spark a discussion about the meta the tone needs to be brought down to a more reasonable level.  Saying "it's all aggro aggro aggro" might be more in touch with your feelings but it doesn't invite those who might feel differently.  Knowing what highly annoys the community helps too.  This community is rather sick of the "I'm quiting, goodbye!" posts so plopping that in is going to highly annoy your readers.  So if you wanted a discussion from us, overdoing the emotions to make it hard to debate and the annoying the community isn't going to help you.

If you werent' interested in folks who disagree with you or get annoyed by how you present things then.well.. what's the point? If you just wanted to post about how you felt about the meta then we have a thread for that.  Yes we go "rant thread" like it's a trash bin but one of the big purposes of it is to let you post how you feel and how you like without folks like me writing 10 page essays about how wrong your opinion is, your writing style is, and your general concept of anything is.

Though again if you are sick of the game and uninstalled it, why ARE you here, beyond simply wanting to find enjoyment bashing things you dislike.  Which puts the question of "why are you HERE which is mostly of people who generally still want to play the game and aren't that interested bashing games they don't play."

Joining in on the message.

You lose NOTHING for dusting right now.  Dust it, keep the dust if you are concerned.  If you find you want Elysiana later you can just craft it.  If you'd rather have another card or don't care for Ely then keep the dust and use it as you wish.  

OTOH if you keep the card and later find out you don't want it or want something else more, you'll get 400 dust instead of 1600.  

So you lose nothing but some time to recraft if you dust NOW.  You risk losing 1200 dust if you keep now and craft later.

The 'keep all legendaries' is for any time that nerfs aren't in effect.  Yes, in any other situation please kepe your legendaries, especially now that buffs are a thing that exists.

Blizzard has always in the past didn't put the focus on high profits and thus were more than willing to act in ways that weren't as profitable as other options.  It's less about being 'nice' and probably more about realizing that long term income is better than short term profits and ruining their franchises.

The thought that this was done for financial reasons really REALLY makes me even more afraid of these changes.  Especially if they come with nerfs soon afterwards (buff the cards, get people to buy packs and use up dust, then nerf the decks to ruin the whole thing).

But again, I have my crow ready in case you guys are right. I'll happily start eating if this works out.  

So let's hope I have to, because otherwise we're in for year that makes 2018 look nice.

Quote from RavenSunHP>>

1. Archive of the past is impossible, if applied to decks in a meta. At least, it's not possible for many decks, which are bound to be t4, untill completely revamped to a new version (at that point it's not a 'past deck' anymore).

I agree there.  I do see this argument brought up once in a while, particularly in the desire to unnerf cards or the like.  But it's just madness to think you can redo the old decks without limiting the meta down to the decks involved.

1. Insane Place is the current direction of Wild, and their best solution in order to make most money for Standard, I guess (because the community mindlessly drools for cycles of brokenness-relieve in Standard). But it's gonna fail sooner or later due to the mode turning into a junk mode of highroll vs aggro.

1. The alternative to Standard is harder to make, but not as hard as it seems: it would only require to them to NEVER print cards that can, potentially, break the balance of the mana curve (with spikes being allowed around turn5+ and complete curvequakes at turn 8+), OR the requirement of drawing the damn cards before triggering their effects. It's really not hard to avoid breaking those 2 rules. Thing is it requires the will to do so, and holding off the community that drools for cycles of brokenness-relieve (which in turn makes them gain more money, so they'd be fools not to do what makes more money who cares of the total quality of the product)...

The thing is, if blizzard could form Wild into a system that accepts new cards while remaining balanced and relevant then there would be no point to Standard.  The entire concept behind formats is to not have to worry about the old cards.  If the new cards are weaker than the old, it doesn't matter. If the new cards create broken synergies it doesn't matter.  It doesn't matter because the cards are gone.  

That mentality, though, means NOT paying attention to Wild as strongly as Standard.  And if the goal is to focus more on Wild then why even bother with Standard?

As far as the matter of the mana curve, blame the Old Gods meta for that one.  Blizzard did focus on preserving the mana curve and power levels.  The result was the game becoming 'tempo' based where the most important thing because putting down the 1 drop, 2 drop, 3 drop so on.  The result was the community complaining about 'curvestone' at levels..well.. similar to how much they raged about polarizing games during the Boomsday meta.  

Blizzard listened, eventually, and thus we got the Year of the Mammoth and future years that broke with such mentalities.  We lost a lot of the curve (a bit reason why Keleseth was so loved was because many classes simply didn't HAVE a good 2 drop to use so they might as well use that thing) and ideas of how much power a certain mana should have died with it.  

The concept of cheating mana is toning down since then.  Which is great for Standard as the cards die off.  But Wild preserves all of the old mistakes of the past: the aggrocentric and bad large minion design of the early days, the curvestone reliance of afterwards, the mana cheating and combo centric nature afterwards.  

The first part will mean that Blizzard will always focus on Standard for their balancing, so they'll make the cards people want to play with.  They CAN focus on nerfing/buffing to retool Wild later though. I believe if they ever focus on #3 then THAT would be the final gameplan.

I think they are just delaying it as long as they can, with the option #2, because afterall, it's unimportant to them if the mode fails entirely and is depleted of a decent population.

We should hope they find a way to monetize Wild mode, so that they would be more interested in keeping a serious balance in any release, instead of just a contextual balanced focused around Standard.

Problem is, the later they wait, the harder it is to actually fix the many flawed/broken cards that keep stacking up at each release...

PS: notice that if they ever tried to fully implement #3, also option #1 would be better implemented, for many more decks.

That will probably depend on the community.  If the community makes a big enough demand for a balanced wild they'll eventually do something about it.  Worked for buffing cards :p.

Quote from Kovachut >>

Quote from Atramentar >>

 Idk man, Dead Ringer can fetch you snip-snap and you don't need exactly Coppertail Imposter, just a mech sticking to the board (which could be easily done through Explodinator or Replicating Menace for example).

Edit: also doable with 3 mana high health mechs such as Bronze Gatekeeper if you're on the coin. Plus, the Extra Arms buff works really well with this whole thing (and mechs in general)

I wrote my previous post before taking into consideration the fact, that a priest player can run multiple mechs in their deck. At first I was only thinking of that stupid Coppertail Imposter and how unreliable the strategy would have been, if people relied only on that single minion. And even when I realized the opportunity of running more mechs, I was still confident, that the TTK combo would be ok, because priests can't draw specific units. That was until I thought of Dead Ringer that can reliably fetch the legendary (I mentioned it in a post before you replied to me). Only because of this little critter I started fearing the deck. 

 Another thing to consider is that everyone keeps thinking of trying to rush down the combo.  "you can't get it by turn 5".  But WHY is that a problem?

Innerfire/Divine priest stopped being a meme and started being a threat once the deck stopped thinking it had to get ONE SPECIFIC minion hyper buffed and instead became a tempo deck.  Suddenly it turned into a deck with normal removals and fights for the board, but it gave the opponent the fear of dying the SECOND ANYTHING stuck on the board.  

A deck that tries to 100% all in on the wombo combo is fine. It'll fail most of the time, work a few times, and become a nice meme deck.  But what about a priest that just runs a normal mech deck?  You don't have ot win by turn 5. You just need to survive until you get T1ck and a Experimenter.  After that, just have 1 mech to survive. Then just spam.  

will there be a deck like this? We'll see.  But I'm worried.

Quote from toucharaa >>

Thing is Wild is treated once more as the trashbin of the game. Sure, it's not the major mode, but why having it at all, if all they do is making it more unpleasant every expansion?

 I think it's because they aren't sure what to do with it.

That's not a rant.  Blizzard flat out said about half a year ago that they aren't really sure what to do with the mode.  Remember they really didn't have any plans for it.  They didn't even want to make a ladder for wild.  The added support was requested by the players that they had come in for advice.  So even from the start Wild was this odd...thing that they knew needed to exist since Standard exists but...*shrug*.

Half a year ago they wrote a post saying that it's really still the case.  There's a few competing visions on how Wild can be: a place for insane high power levels, a competitive alternative to Standard, and an archive of the past.  All three ideas are nice, but clash with each other.  Blizzard isn't sure what to do and is asking the community for ideas of what they want.  Myself I haven't heard too much of a consensus since the same article also talked about us not getting tournament mode so THAT topic blew up.

So yeah, until Blizzard really gets a read on what Wild should be then they'll be mostly spinning their wheels here.  

Quote from Bluelights >>

 

 

 I want to add that Preperation especially has been said about time and time again, also by the developers that it is one of the most design restricting cards in the game. They basicaly told us: we have to deal with this card sooner or later. This nerf is not a surprise as it has been a long time coming. The only surprising part is that they didnt HoF it a month ago. 

 I'm guessing there was a debate over whether Preparation is a good card that's been around too long (HoF) or a card that needs to be tweaked (nerf).  Seems like they went for the latter which is why it wasn't HoFed.  You don't HoF a card that needs a nerf.  

To put it this way: if Preparation came out as a Shadows card would it be ok? If not, you don't HoF it, you nerf it.  

Quote from Strongpoint >>

They really should have started by buffing unplayable basic class cards...

one of those buffs scare me. Unexpected results look very-very strong and it make magic trick better

 They aren't going to buff basic cards since the idea is to make Classic NOT be the basis of our decks.  That's what keeps decks cycling every year. 

Of course I would've said "we arne't going to be buffing cards" 2 hours ago.  So #($)#( IT I don't know what's going on.