Have had some pretty rad results with a Big Beast Hunter using Seeping Oozling to copy Kathrena's deathrattle, and using that to tease out one of two Charged Devilsaurs or a King Krush. Add in a Dire Frenzy to replenish the big beast stocks, and some Spellstones, secrets and Unleash The Hounds to deal with aggro Paladin decks, and win-rate's much better than expected. Plus it's FUN
What I don't get is that people allow top tier decks to restrict their creativity, I've been playing since the launch of the expansion quest priest and dragon priest without spiteful mind u and I'm rank 4 at the moment and I'm gonna try hagatha shaman this weekend, you just need to tech against the top tier decks. The only complaint I have is decks that u can't tech against if you play a specific archetype ex: freeze mage, shudderwok, quest mage but blizzard has done a good job to tone those decks down.
What disappoints me the most is just how little impact the expansion is having on gameplay. Sure from a deckbuilding perspective Witchwood is offering a lot of potential variety, but I went through several pages of top decks yesterday and the vast majority had little to no WW cards. And of the WW cards a lot were also low gameplay-impact cards(ex. just a well statted minion).
For the most part it all just feels like very familiar territory with a slight twist. And for a product that is this insanely expensive I expect way more.
Both of these have spawned a multitude of viable decks, revitalizing some aggro, midrange, or even control aspects on the form of handlock.
And sure, old decks still exist, but there is plenty of new stuff as well. If you wanted the game to feel completely different, then you would not need a rotation, you would have to change the mechanics entirely. Simply because there will always be aggro, midrange, control, and alternate wincondition (combo, quest, etc).
I do not see how this is a counterargument from a gameplay point of view. Most of these decks have few new cards, some are even limited to just Baku or Genn. And as you say they are just revitalized old decks. Now compare this to things such as hero cards or quests which created actual new gameplay by themselves and I think it feels rather underwhelming.
This expansion is terrible. I've been playing since Nax and don't remember a time when the meta became stale quicker than now. I mean, really, it took maybe 2 days before the masses stopped experimenting and settled down to Aggro Pally, Cube, and Spiteful decks. Why? Because the devs dropped the ball on play testing and planning. Plus, to be honest, most players can't even afford a whole new set of fun decks because of how expensive Hearthstone has become. I opened 180 packs after WW and didn't even have the ability to craft every major deck in ranked. It's time for the community to step up and start demanding from Team Five.
I disagree. The meta has been lively and the only frustrating deck on ladder for me is face mage. You can go away now.
I'm actually enjoying this expansion and I don't say that often. Liked Ungoro and loving this one, I guess rotations bring new fresh air to the game, lots of variety of decks are viable, not just 3-4 decks, every class is playable, it is great for the game.
I guess everyone complaining about Witchwood "The worst meta ever" just conveniently forgot about the meta throughout Year of the Kraken, which kicked off with unchallenged Warrior decks in Tier 1, followed by Shamanstone for the rest of the year with some extra oppressive aggro thrown in towards the end which went relatively uncontested thanks to Jade Druid...
This meta, which has yet to settle, with so many viable tier 2 decks, is worse than that? Worse than face hunter meta or secret paladin meta? You can call out Blizzard for "ignoring the meta" when the nerfs come out and Spiteful Summoner isn't changed, or Paladin or Warlock aren't changed. Until then stfu and consider how truly stale the meta has been in the past, compared to now where you can actually counter any deck you have a problem with because there are so many to choose from.
The expansion has a ton of issues. It's a standard rotation, which are meant to freshen up the meta, and yet the most played decks on the higher ranks are cubelock, aggro paladin and spiteful druid. decks that already were played a lot in kobolds.
But the new expansion also didn't bring something genuinely new. All the expansions after WotG had something innovative in them (the 3 gangs, quests, hero cards and weapons) yet this expansion didn't explore with new ideas, which really removes the incentive of experimentation.
Add to that the fact that most new cards just aren't that good, and you've got yourself a recipe for failure. They were way too cautious with the powerlevels of certain cards...
How is it different from last rotation? When Un'goro launched and quest rogue was nerfed. Shaman went token/jades, druid played token/jades, rogue played miracle, mage played freeze, warrior played pirates/quest, warlock played zoo, hunter was midrange, priest was dragons, paladin played murlocs. This expansion we have, cubelock/zoo/control/handlock, shudderwock/even shaman, taunt/spiteful druid, miracle/quest/odd rogue, odd/even/murloc paladin, face hunter/spell hunter, face/control mage, control/quest/tempo warrior, spiteful/mind blast priest.
There is way more variety in this expansion than ungoro. There is just is much if not less carry over of old archetypes as well.
Also, the experimentation aspect of quests, and what not is hot air. Only a few of them ever saw any play and I don't see how they are any different than the odd/even mechanic that saw experimentation with every class.
People complaining about low power level of WW - This is the first expansion of a new standard year. You want to establish some new ideas (even/odd, recruit) and NOT one-up the end-of-year power level that just finished. I expect power level to grow respectively in the next two sets, and then return to a more humble base-coat for the first expansion in the next standard year. I thought this was common knowledge.
People complaining about low deck diversity - I started this expansion at Rank 5. Yes there were oppressive stages, around Shudderwock, Odd Paladin and Cubelock. But I'd note all 3 of these lasted around a day or two and have largely vanished into the periphery, I rarely run into them now. Kingsbane Rogue and Hadronox druid pop-up often enough, Quest/Odd Warrior and Even Handlock have started to creep in. I've been playing spiteful druid after I realized that spiteful priest wasn't what it used to be, and I've been watching and reacting to build changes in my deck of choice.
I too was concerned "worst expansion evahr" in the first few days of the expansion, after the shudderwock nonsense and the improved hero powers returning (hated me some tank warrior first go-round, and Baku starts it at the beginning of the game(!)). But I am constantly surprised by the variety of decks I'm seeing at 5-L, at any time and over time.
My expectations and experiences do not match yours.
They even succeeded in bringing back the infamous quest rogue... Not that they created many good cards for it... One more reason to hate the expansion (or the rotation?)...
This is the expansion I hate the second most since I started playing in BRM. I hated Un'Goro the most, thanks to one deck. Who wants to guess what deck that is?
Considering Un'Goro was just about the best meta we've ever had I'm going to assume you don't know what you're talking about. Quest rogue was polarizing, but easily beatable.... and they nerfed it. Right now it keeps cubelock in check. Wtf is so wrong with that?
Yeah people don't seem to get the Un'Goro was as good as the game has EVER been. Post KotFT was the worst besides UT Hunter's reign for my money.
i still feel there's a unicorn deck out there, Hadrono Druid might be it, but do you remember how token shamman was discovered basically 1 month before un'goro was over and then it becamme super popular during that month??, i feel WW has the potential of delivering a deck out of the blue like that.
When whole deck strategy can be hard countered by simple polymorh/hex/tinkmaster - it cant be top deck.
Agreed with some others here, Like Un'goro, there were some obvious new meta decks that dominated right away. Months in people started figuring out the answers... if anything people are figuring out the answers faster in this meta. I'm not the most talented deck builder and I've already found a decent Even warlock that beats many decks pretty handily.
The problem is not the Witchwood expansion. The problem are all previous expansions with op cards (such as call to arms, spiteful summoner, cobalt scalebane, possessed lackey etc.). The new expansion is very balanced, except for Shudderwock, too easy OTK for card with a 20 minutes battlecry.
No the problem is WW.
When you build a new expansion, you need to include power cards for new decks to shake it up. WW did not. I can't see how they thought any of the WW decks would be big.
For a mid year expansion I would agree, but this one also had a set rotation. When the same 2 deck types (aggro pally and cubelock) dominate before and after a rotation, it is a bit disappointing.
The format evolves over time. We all knew Cubelock and Dude Pally would be good, so it's not a surprise that lo-and-behold they are top tier right after the expansion drops. Give people time to develop tuned decks with the new cards. I would be more worried if people had figured out the best Witchwood card-based decks already. The fact the meta looks exactly like we expected is not a problem and just means that until the meta changes you should exploit the fact the meta is figured out right now and build decks that prey on the ones you face the most.
Or I guess you could rant and rave about how bad the expansion is. One of those options is productive, the other YMMV.
i still feel there's a unicorn deck out there, Hadrono Druid might be it, but do you remember how token shamman was discovered basically 1 month before un'goro was over and then it becamme super popular during that month??, i feel WW has the potential of delivering a deck out of the blue like that.
When whole deck strategy can be hard countered by simple polymorh/hex/tinkmaster - it cant be top deck.
edit: forgot frog and sheep are beasts...dekc still has a lot of potential tho, sionce mage and shamman aren't that good atm.
Have had some pretty rad results with a Big Beast Hunter using Seeping Oozling to copy Kathrena's deathrattle, and using that to tease out one of two Charged Devilsaurs or a King Krush. Add in a Dire Frenzy to replenish the big beast stocks, and some Spellstones, secrets and Unleash The Hounds to deal with aggro Paladin decks, and win-rate's much better than expected. Plus it's FUN
## Big Hunter
# Class: Hunter
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Raven
#
# 1x (2) Freezing Trap
# 1x (2) Rat Trap
# 1x (2) Snipe
# 2x (2) Wandering Monster
# 2x (3) Animal Companion
# 1x (3) Deadly Shot
# 2x (3) Eaglehorn Bow
# 2x (3) Stitched Tracker
# 2x (3) Unleash the Hounds
# 2x (4) Dire Frenzy
# 2x (4) Flanking Strike
# 2x (4) Wing Blast
# 2x (5) Lesser Emerald Spellstone
# 1x (6) Deathstalker Rexxar
# 2x (6) Seeping Oozeling
# 2x (8) Charged Devilsaur
# 1x (8) Kathrena Winterwisp
# 1x (9) King Krush
# 1x (10) Emeriss
#
AAECAR8IhwSuBsUI+AiG0wK26gLW7AKY8AILtQPbCf4MxsIC080C3dIC39IC49IC7eoC3O4CyfgCAA==
What I don't get is that people allow top tier decks to restrict their creativity, I've been playing since the launch of the expansion quest priest and dragon priest without spiteful mind u and I'm rank 4 at the moment and I'm gonna try hagatha shaman this weekend, you just need to tech against the top tier decks. The only complaint I have is decks that u can't tech against if you play a specific archetype ex: freeze mage, shudderwok, quest mage but blizzard has done a good job to tone those decks down.
I'm actually enjoying this expansion and I don't say that often. Liked Ungoro and loving this one, I guess rotations bring new fresh air to the game, lots of variety of decks are viable, not just 3-4 decks, every class is playable, it is great for the game.
I guess everyone complaining about Witchwood "The worst meta ever" just conveniently forgot about the meta throughout Year of the Kraken, which kicked off with unchallenged Warrior decks in Tier 1, followed by Shamanstone for the rest of the year with some extra oppressive aggro thrown in towards the end which went relatively uncontested thanks to Jade Druid...
This meta, which has yet to settle, with so many viable tier 2 decks, is worse than that? Worse than face hunter meta or secret paladin meta? You can call out Blizzard for "ignoring the meta" when the nerfs come out and Spiteful Summoner isn't changed, or Paladin or Warlock aren't changed. Until then stfu and consider how truly stale the meta has been in the past, compared to now where you can actually counter any deck you have a problem with because there are so many to choose from.
job's done.
Well when players were playing new decks like Shudderwok Shaman there were great upheavals full of whining.
I think it is safe to say people don't really want new decks to be played if they actually dominate for a time.
And just because Even/Odd Pallies fit within a general familiar archtype that doesn't mean the decks aren't new decks.
People complaining about low power level of WW - This is the first expansion of a new standard year. You want to establish some new ideas (even/odd, recruit) and NOT one-up the end-of-year power level that just finished. I expect power level to grow respectively in the next two sets, and then return to a more humble base-coat for the first expansion in the next standard year. I thought this was common knowledge.
People complaining about low deck diversity - I started this expansion at Rank 5. Yes there were oppressive stages, around Shudderwock, Odd Paladin and Cubelock. But I'd note all 3 of these lasted around a day or two and have largely vanished into the periphery, I rarely run into them now. Kingsbane Rogue and Hadronox druid pop-up often enough, Quest/Odd Warrior and Even Handlock have started to creep in. I've been playing spiteful druid after I realized that spiteful priest wasn't what it used to be, and I've been watching and reacting to build changes in my deck of choice.
I too was concerned "worst expansion evahr" in the first few days of the expansion, after the shudderwock nonsense and the improved hero powers returning (hated me some tank warrior first go-round, and Baku starts it at the beginning of the game(!)). But I am constantly surprised by the variety of decks I'm seeing at 5-L, at any time and over time.
My expectations and experiences do not match yours.
The Meta is just absurdly fast. Way too many aggro decks or spitefuls...
Agreed with some others here, Like Un'goro, there were some obvious new meta decks that dominated right away. Months in people started figuring out the answers... if anything people are figuring out the answers faster in this meta. I'm not the most talented deck builder and I've already found a decent Even warlock that beats many decks pretty handily.
Every single expansion is the "Worst expansion ever"
For a mid year expansion I would agree, but this one also had a set rotation. When the same 2 deck types (aggro pally and cubelock) dominate before and after a rotation, it is a bit disappointing.
Not every expansion is going to knock it out of the park. Be glad we got a lot of fun cards to play around with.
People need to be more creative.
I will say I feel there are a few oppressive cards out there that could use a nerf.
This expansion is the best expansion simply because this expansion has the highest number of Tess Greymanes released in a single set ever.
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