Hearthpwn

I consider myself a good veteran player and I also play mostly my own decks (takes opponents by surprise at times) however i have absolutely no desire to climb ranks. sometimes I'm too lazy to even get to 15 at the end of the month. I think there's plenty of people like me out there that used to devote more time to climbing but now are just coasting and waiting for something spicy to play, so we plague the dumpster ranks. 

a card that has a text like that should never be taken this lightly. you can expect Undertakah to just become broken at one point, if not in Standard then in Wild. (and don't say that dumb "I won't play Wild so I'll dust it'' crap, that's shortsighted) 

I'm used to the game having issues since in HS they do a poor job at updating Unity engine for AMD or some such, and having some short spikes/lags in the game happens, however since this last update the amount of these issues has more than tripled for me. the hanging that usually happened a little after loading the game (and usually went away) is now happening during games several times. 

anyone else experiencing this drop in playability, in case it is on my end?

can I say neither? 

I wouldn't base my decision on the need for a discard deck especially the quest based one, short and simple. deck is underpowered, has inherit flaws and it would take several more pushes to be considerable.  it can't handle standard, let alone wild. I know some of us enjoy goofy decks, but we're on the brink of a new and significant expansion and if you're struggling with dust, that's a giant NO from me. 

I would just play the deck as is, if you find it that freaking fun then go for it (but after expansion) otherwise, you might regret it.

Quote from og0 >>

From https://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/matchmaking-works-tyrandespecial-promotions-max-mccall-yong-woo/

(the bold is my emphasis)

MAX MCCALL DISCUSSES HOW MATCHMAKING WORKS

I saw this post last week, but didn’t have time to respond to it. I’ll do that now: when you go into a game, the only variable that affects who your opponent will be is your skill rating.

Matchmaking works as follows:

We use a formula to assess player skill. After every game, the formula looks at if you won or lost and uses your current rating, your opponent’s rating, and your rating history to generate your new rating. We call this rating MMR for short. In casual and at Legend rank, we pair players with similar MMRs. In Ranked below legend, we pair people with similar star ranks instead of similar MMRs. Your rating is the only input that the matchmaker receives. It doesn’t know what deck you’re playing, what deck you just played with or against, or anything else, except for your rating.

When you press ‘play’ you enter a queue for your chosen game mode. The matchmaker looks at your MMR and compares it to the MMR of everyone else in the queue. If it finds someone else with the same MMR as you, it pairs you into a game. If it doesn’t, it will wait a few seconds and look again. The second time, it doesn’t look just for someone with your MMR; it will also look for someone with an MMR that’s almost the same as yours. If it still doesn’t find a match, it waits another few seconds and looks again. The bound for what MMRs are considered a good match keep widening the longer you’re in the queue; this is to ensure that you don’t have to wait too long to play. Usually a match is found so quickly that the widening bounds never really matter. After the game, your rating is updated, and the process is repeated the next time you queue up.

I realize some won't accept this and are convinced the game is rigged.  I'll listen if an analysis of 100K+ matchups by a statistics collection site by unbiased competent people show there is statistically significant matchup bias.  Humans (including you and including me) are too susceptible to confirmation bias.

 oh! that's a very interesting post, thank you for bringing it up. I tried digging up matchmaking topics but all I was suggested were salt threads. it's very odd how strict and clear it is in a game where they don't want to release game rules and pack statistics. even though I'm not that paranoid about the MM in Hearthstone, it's hard to trust this statement when even the MMR isn't visible to us. my average opponent sports a legend cardback, but every now and then I get a punching bag with nothing. what's going on there, did the search comb the planet that thoroughly and found nothing? I need to see our MMRs or MMR decay rate for this.

Quote from thazud8D >>

Quote from Gbreevo >>

I don't know how much the matchmaking is rigged, but I see that famous streamers get almost always awesome matchup, starting hands, top decks and rng effects in their favor, and this is a fact. 

 It is not a fact. 

 that's so wonderfully paranoid, I love it! 

also loving the salt thread votes, I knew I didn't make a mistake adding that! please keep in mind I'm not trying to convince you of anything ; I want to know what you think is happening in the system.

Greetings, good fellows. here's a piggy roll to start off : 

('o'))~ ~((.o.) ('o'))~

now that we got that out of the way, let's talk. I wish to know how deep do you think the matchmaking hole goes. This is a little exercise in paranoia, skepticism, realism and statistical accuracy. I'll make some statements and observations below, you see if you agree or not. this is not a topic where I'm claiming anything non-factual, this is about opinions and experiences.

it is no hidden information that Blizzard games use a rigged matchmaking system to give everyone an easier chance to reach 50% winrate ; for what is a more balanced experience but to win a game and give a win to someone else, so we're all a bunch of content pigglets? a player that comes into a game only to experience losses is not a player that will stay around, so it is in the company's interest to keep us around.

an easy way to see this philosophy at work is in games like Heroes of the Storm, where you will be rewarded or punished depending if you're on a long win or loss streak. If you lost a dozen games in a row, suddenly you'll be awarded with weak opponents and an incredibly knowledgeable and superior skilled team in a row. at the same time, when people are on a great win streak they're basically paranoid for a good reason - the doom of the lose streak is hovering above, where they'll be given teams that simply isn't on the same level as the opponents. there's a lot of systems going on in HOTS to attempt to make it fair, but the "keep you at 50% winrate to make everyone a content pigglet" with the lose/win streaks is well documented and should be accepted as fact by now. to beat this system, you must display exceptional skill to 'carry' games.

in Hearthstone we see a similar thing. Hearthstone is still a massively popular game where there should basically always be someone of equal level of skill/experience to fight you... yet sometimes someone like me who's been around since the release gets matched up with someone who's completely new and lacking cards, and their deck and experience cannot match mine. Hearthstone is basically throwing me some meat to keep me around, I guess, and it feels bad for both of us. 

aside from this brute matchmaking (new vs veteran player recovering from loss) there's some curiosities that happen with matching mulligans (full keep/mulligan vs full keep/mulligan) and drawing the best winrate card against the opponent, but that would be extremely difficult to put in statistics and mulliganing is still a player decision choice, so am not gonna think much on that.

have you experienced matching and losing consistently to a particular deck (let's say some combo/control deck), taking a counter deck (like Quest Rogue) to the ladder, only to not encounter that deck anymore? 

do you ever have a day when you always draw your amazing turn 1,2,3 in your opening hand and jumping your winrate like +10-0 but then suddenly can't perform that winstreak again and your deck starts to perform averagely/below average?

that's about all I have to say on this topic. give some thought and think about your average experience. do you think you've been cheated by the system just so you or someone else wins? I gave a Salt Thread option on top for all the dummies who can't read, that one is for you. the system has always been rigged to a degree, my question is - how rigged do you think it is? here's some explanation on the options given above ; 

Win/Loss balancing - win or lose enough games in a row and the system will accommodate you with harder/easier opponents based on their own statistics. to escape this, one must win with superior skill and play more matches to break out of 50%.

Class balancing - matching based on cards and classes that show up in your deck ; if Blizz's statistics show that you lose to Druid but win against Priest with your Warlock, it may use that for your matchmaking.

Winrate cards balancing - certain cards win matches or boost the winrate chance by a massive percentage. Some days you always draw your Shudderwock or Jaina, some days they're always at the bottom of your deck.

Mulligan balancing - both players get a similar situation with starting hands. this would be linked to mulligan rate/chance per card.

Draw balancing - win or lose a game by the draw of specific cards that statistically bring high winrate in these matchups.

TLDR :

how rigged do you think the game is in setting up your game's experience? 

from my perspective (youtube content, friends, topics like this) it seems people didn't really play Rumble that much after they saw what's up. to me there are several factors that make this, as I would agree, a very poor singleplayer experience. 

- unable to choose freely the shrines, some shrines I've barely ever seen. sometimes you want to play a specific shrine but the only way to secure the option is to encounter the shrine and surrender.

- spiking difficulty (you can easily lose on your first game because of insane shrines, like if Hooktusk steals some early drop and you get overrun in cards and board control) 

- no reward for exploring content (this is at the same time subtle and huge)

- wild unbalance of power cards

- no great incentive to 'help' our troll champ. I don't care for this tournament, what's at stake? 

I think the best reward for a singleplayer like this would be to reward something for each class win and wrap it up with a enticing reward at the end. (perhaps a skin?) if you add the ability to play whatever class you want (and its 3 shrines) then you got a winner for me.

did he possibly have 10 cards in hand before he drew it? that's the only scenario I can think of that would cause this to happen. 

otherwise it sounds like you got bugged out of a win.

very shortsighted of you. the decks you are listing weren't necessarily OP, they were suffocating entire archetypes from existing, making the game completely unenjoyable for guys who enjoy slower decks - like me, and that's why they were basically banned. you also seem to have listed 3 decks that were controlkillers and basically not much else at the time. they were making the game rock/paper/scissors. but again, these decks you list weren't really op, they were just a rock to someone else's scissors. the real op's were old midrange shaman. old pirate warrior. combo druid. patron warrior. deathrattle hunter, machinegun priest and so on. if you enjoy overrunning people with bloated stats in early game like those decks did (hello turn 1 patches with charge + 3/2 + 1/1 with a weapon) or basically "if you didn't aggro me I win" I can't say your view for the health of the game is anywhere near reality.

there's also a problem with creating new cards and decks. if old midrange shaman and warriorstone was somehow around through whole hearthstone history, you basically couldn't have even tried playing Quest Rogue, Jade anything, etc. because they would not win a single game and you would consider Quest Rogue a bigger meme than freeze shammy.

you're also missing the entire business and buildup aspect of lowering the power level so you can increase it again. the reasons for this sort of flow and ebb should be obvious. 

this is what happens, and this is why we can't have nice things. who do you suggest should waste the time going over these reports? nobody in Hearthstone can even do anything to you anyway and you actually do have the client to report people for really disgusting behavior.

"oh no my opponent is using his full timer which is his to control anyway he likes, better report him"

"oh no my opponent is spamming emotes, better report him"

"oh no my opponent drew keleseth, what a lucker, better report him"

"oh no my janky control deck is up against combo/kingsbane, I'm offended by this matchup, better report him"

"oh no my opponent is playing paladin, better report him"

in short, grow up.

well, I generally have fun. I made a Big Shaman and a Big Priest in Standard and they're pretty hilarious, there's some complete nonsense combos in it, and I would give it an edge against control decks. then I ran into these things in a row :

- healzoo who turn 1 played Flame Imp + coin + someone call for a doctor + Happy Ghoul and then Keleseth, 

- 2 tempo mages with starting Mana Wyrms who Glyphed into Fireballs, not that they even needed it,

- odd rogue with amazing anime level of draws, not that they even needed it,

- kill everything Warlock who gnome'd my key matchup cards,

then I just shut down the game for the day and went to play Heroes of Might and Magic. I had fun then. in short, Hell is other people.

depends. like the OP, when I play several players in a row that just jam stats down and want to hit face as fast as possible, I'm on the edge of just giving up playing for the day. eventually someone comes along with a better collection and interesting ideas, and then we have a proper match that I enjoy.

there's a lot of good game in Hearthstone, just fuck knows what the developers agenda is. they make these very deliberate moves that can't be a coincidence (for example, Kazakus, Juicy Melon, aggro Shaman cards from the past like that Tuskarr thing, Bloodreaver) and it's like they want to ruin things sometimes and I can't figure out why.  

I would disenchant because 1) I never cared about shiny things and 2) it is a joker for any legendary you want, opening the roads for new decks and your enjoyment. Grom also is a well balanced card and it is very unlikely it will ever get changed, so holding on to it in hopes of a bigger payday isn't likely. 

don't disenchant it just because you don't like a class, that's not a good reason. eventually every class will have a deck that you might enjoy, and your next favorite deck might be in the Warrior class. 

how are the combo breaking minions not reliable? OTK Druid runs like 4-8 total minions in their entire deck and it needs most of those minions in their hand the whole time until the combo is ready ; they need each of them (Aviana, Kun, Togwaggle, Azalina for example, losing any of these except Kun (if the Druid also runs Innervates/Biology Project that is) is a massive issue) and just a tiny bit of timing will throw a giant wrench into whatever they're trying to do. so, just time it? you also have to take in count that some matchups you simply lose because they're unfavorable ; this is nothing new and it is a part of Blizzard's design philosophy. for example, Jade, Kazakus and pirates.

we might talk about how Aviana + Kun limits design space, sure, but that's an everpresent problem and that's why Standard exists. 

I would say that Shadowreaper Anduin is not obvious. It hits your own minions and it is a different sort of win condition to what you aim for ; just beating down the opponent into submission with overwhelming force. it's true that it's a strong card on its own, but that doesn't automatically make it an inclusion. I think you can wait on Anduin until you get the rest.

the legendaries to get are : 

Ragnaros the Firelord

The Lich King

Y'Shaarj, Rage Unbound

Deathwing, Dragonlord (I don't think you ever consider Deathwing)... ehhh probably not, unless you wanna build some spicy deck with Dragons (notably Malygos, Ysera and Deathwing) however the point of the deck is to NOT draw your minions, not combo them from hand.