so i just needed 3 cards (300 dust) to finish senfglas grim warrior deck and i said what the heck its 300 dust and ill get a new deck so i crafted it. i played it for 10 games and got 8 wins.... wtf is this deck i love it. it didnt matter if i was playing vs aggro or control it seemed that i had a chance to win against anything. furthermore the deck needs a lot of skill, as you have to make many decisions in 1 turn, so its not only viable strong etc its also difficult to play, for players who want something that requires thought. i just wanted to share the pleasant surprise i had with this deck. i think its now my favourite deck
Enjoy it while it lasts. Everyone is expecting the OP, warsong/GP trick now.
I think it's an awful gimmick, warrior players are now just buying time until turn 8 to pull this crap off. Or turn 7 if they get Thaurissan out first. It certainly does NOT require any skill. I have tried it myself, and found it ridiculous how easy I could overcome an opponent with this trick. I think anyone who ever plays a little Warrior has tried it. Didn't take a genius or any net decking to figure Grim Patron would be wicked with warsong commander tbh.
I've won with the deck plenty of times without even using the charge/patron combo. I use 2 axeflingers and they work great as well. You can argue that any deck is an awful gimmick and does not require any skill. There's plenty of decks that just buy time until turn 8, or turn... fatigue death. It's a fun deck that actually works.
Enjoy it while it lasts. Everyone is expecting the OP, warsong/GP trick now.
I think it's an awful gimmick, warrior players are now just buying time until turn 8 to pull this crap off. Or turn 7 if they get Thaurissan out first. It certainly does NOT require any skill.
Obviously everyone is expecting it. That doesn't mean it can't be effective.
Have to disagree that it is a gimmick. Plenty of pro players are playing this deck in legit tournaments. A gimmick deck is, by definition, something that only has an off chance of winning, not one that can perform up to a solid win rate.
I think it's an awful gimmick, warrior players are now just buying time until turn 8 to pull this crap off. Or turn 7 if they get Thaurissan out first. It certainly does NOT require any skill. I have tried it myself, and found it ridiculous how easy I could overcome an opponent with this trick.
By that logic, every deck can be basically reduced to "survive until turn x, then do x" and no deck requires any skill to play.
I had created a GP deck in theory the instant the card was announced and still play it, but I have the same issue with it as I do Combo Druid and Arcane/PO/Faceless Warlock (and to some degree muster/quartermaster) and that is that it is just not interactive from the opponent's side. Without HS allowing or creating some way to interact on the opponent's turn decks like this just feel cheap/gimmicky. Deeper interaction on the opponent's turn is the one thing I have been beating my drum about for a while and will continue too. People will realize at some point that without this it doesn't matter how many new cards get introduced, the game will remain the same time after time.
Only playing 3+ atk minions (taunt especially) and ensuring all AoE/Spell dmg is 3+ is about as much as the opponent can do aside from keeping a strong early board presence and pressure on.
It certainly does NOT require any skill. I have tried it myself, and found it ridiculous how easy I could overcome an opponent with this trick.
Lol'd.
Certainly combo druid is far more complex.
DO you always "LOL" at simple truths? I'd get that checked.
I have a Druid deck without the combo, it wins just as much as the one with. Sure, every class has it's gimmick ... Warrior has a few already, like brawl-sylvanas ... cruel taskmaster and ... well ... lots of things! etc ...
I don't only play Druid btw, [could have put any one of 5 classes in as my fav] so why would I care about that specific 'gimmick'? I also play Warrior at times, did you not see where I said I've tried it myself? It's still an OP gimmick, and I see warrior players are almost depending on it now. And it is definitely not difficult to run Grim/warsong Warrior.
All admit that it's annoying to lose to it, especially when you know it's coming and you can't do anything to stop it, but I wouldn't call it a gimmick. I have faced this deck a number of times and it's not an automatic lose by any means.
lol this balthier guy 1 week before this he said " grim patron is not OP and certainly a warrior deck based on the grim patroncombo is not OP either. i confirmed this after playing against many people with this deck and i won like 70% with a garbage mech paladin midrange-tempo deck. i believe the best way to play grim patron is still in the old cw as an extra way to win. decks which rely only on the combo to win are gimmick-fun only. he is a card that requires another card(s) to work thats why it will never be reliable enough. if you drop him alone on turn 5 he does nothing on each own and your opponent will already have a board. by turn 9 that you say the combo activates and you lose or whatever....i will say that against aggro and midrange decks by turn 9 you already have lost or won. today i played against 3 warriors who played grim patron combo-only deck and won all of them and i played a single warrior who was a cw but he had grim patrons and commander only and i lost. not by the grim patron comboi lost from his other cw plays. that said he is not OP, people will try thesecombo only variances and eventually abandon them cause they are not reliable for ranked."
All admit that it's annoying to lose to it, especially when you know it's coming and you can't do anything to stop it, but I wouldn't call it a gimmick. I have faced this deck a number of times and it's not an automatic lose by any means.
Gimmick does not = auto-win. It's something that the deck revolves around, and the user builds to specifically. A one-trick pony, basically.
I've lost to it even though I knew it was coming more than a few times, there's little you can do at times. But I have also stubbed it out because it was so predictable.
It's not so great Vs decks that use beefy minions mostly. You can have all the grims you like, if they have to smash into 3+ att minions they won't be around long.
This thread really caught my eye and as i read it seems to be general consensus that this deck is good or even "op", i honestly would like to know what goes wrong because that confuses me. I have not lost a single match to this deck and get very pleased when i see the excessive card draw come down as indicator-it brings a smile to my face. I am a pretty versed player too, not all aggro or control, i prefer to try lots out but i have strayed from trying this deck because it does not seem good in my experience at all. I wish i had actual stats for you all but i know i've faced it 20+ times and not lost one, it's so predictable and you can easily disassemble their silly win-con. Why do you believe its "op"?
so i just needed 3 cards (300 dust) to finish senfglas grim warrior deck and i said what the heck its 300 dust and ill get a new deck so i crafted it. i played it for 10 games and got 8 wins.... wtf is this deck i love it. it didnt matter if i was playing vs aggro or control it seemed that i had a chance to win against anything. furthermore the deck needs a lot of skill, as you have to make many decisions in 1 turn, so its not only viable strong etc its also difficult to play, for players who want something that requires thought. i just wanted to share the pleasant surprise i had with this deck. i think its now my favourite deck
Your final thought took my reply, while the cantrip is most often overwhelmingly effective when you have no clear it is so easy to obstruct i don't see how it can go off unless you just have to worst of luck in a match. I am currently at rank 3, unfortunately my legend comes very late in the season due to alot of time on school, and that is very true-when playing a bad opponent it's often an easy win...
All admit that it's annoying to lose to it, especially when you know it's coming and you can't do anything to stop it, but I wouldn't call it a gimmick. I have faced this deck a number of times and it's not an automatic lose by any means.
Gimmick does not = auto-win. It's something that the deck revolves around, and the user builds to specifically. A one-trick pony, basically.
I've lost to it even though I knew it was coming more than a few times, there's little you can do at times. But I have also stubbed it out because it was so predictable.
Agreed. That's what I was trying to say.
I actually think I have won more than lost playing against it. Like anything in the meta that everyone adopts, it's begins to get easier to anticipate and play accordingly.
Grim Patron sounds really gimmicky, but the more you play against it, the more you realize that it isn't. It's not actually very easy to play around, since they can keep the combo pieces in their hand, and it's not easy to bring down a Warrior before they make the play.
when to damage your own patrons, when to play war song naked or patron naked, when to trade or no...there are actually ALOT of decisions you can screw up in this deck and its not always turn8 play WS+patron at all...in fact i do that turn 8 play in a vast minority of my games. i do think the skillcap on this deck is high enough that bad players will win with it sometimes and misplay others. I've certainly spectated some games where the pilots missed huge value potential while playing a patron deck. effective decks with high burst arent necessarily "easy to play ...so OP".
It's the easiest deck in the world if you see it as a gimmick deck were you just draw until you have your combo and then puke Patrons everywhere on the board. If you play it like that it's a inconsistent but entertaining deck, you'll probably average at a 45% win rate.
But if you know treat it like a normal combo deck you'll find it being much harder but also much more rewarding. The deck list is still not figured out but we are getting there. Dreamhack illustrated that perfectly. People who didn't know how to play it or how to play against it just didn't perform with or against it at all.
I think it was firebat who illustrated the best how to play the deck and that it's not just "wait for combo and roflestompfaceroll".
I'll be honest, I was sure Patron is trash and I kept that opinion with the fist few deck lists but I changed my mind with the newer ones. With every version it gets more consistent and less luckbased. I think it will stick as a combo deck just like miracle rogue back in the days and combo druid now. It requires set up and planing to play it on high level.
At the moment you can play it faceroll on ladder on lower ranks without a problem because people are not used to it but the day that this deck gets as popular as miracle rogue was people will learn to deal with it and the meta will shift to combat it and while miracle was OP and nearly impossible to actually play around it, I don't think that's the case with Patron warrior.
obviously when i was facing this deck i was playing against people who were bad players or had a bad decklist thats why i said this deck is crap. it was before senfglas made his decklist popular. i have played many decks and this is the only deck that i have to seriously think about what i will do and think fast cause the rope catches me up. whoever says that this deck doesnt require skill is obviously a moron or someone who hasnt played it. out of the 8 games i won the 3 was without the combo but with frothing berserker and mistakes my opponents did. aggro was flooding the board with minions and they didnt expect commander + berserker + whirwind for example. the first 2 times i played it i made so many mistakes that i realised them only when my turn was over. i seriously wonder if those people who say that this deck is "draw until you have the combo" actually know how to play this game
I think it's a strong deck, but I don't feel that it will be an enduring contender because of the matchups being what they are. Relative to Control Warrior, you are sacrificing a good Oil Rogue, Handlock/Demonlock and Priest matchups for somewhat better MIdrange Paladin and Shaman matchups. Arguably a slightly better Druid and Aggro Mage matchup, possibly if the opponent doesn't know how to play against the deck. Not a great tradeoff. It's because a lot of the decks that Warrior is really good against, such as Face Hunter, Zoolock, Freeze Mage, it's good because of the armor and not really anything the Warrior uses to win.
Adding a combo just adds more mana intensiveness to the middle turns where you would've otherwise used Hero Power, and a boatload of inconsistency. That's the price you pay for occasionally being able to blow out a Paladin and Shaman, or catch an unprepared Mage or Druid.
Warrior is just very suited to a Control strategy, which you'll end up playing most of the time Patron or not. It's not like Paladin, whose Muster Quartermaster combo is really similar, because it has an archetype that's well established. It's main weakness has always been that its card draw is somewhat inconsistent, and so the inconsistency of building in a combo is something that will be noticed over the long haul, even if some individual games seem to show Patron Warrior as explosive. At best, it will be a meta-game call whether to go Patron or Standard, kind of like how Druid chooses to go either Combo or full Ramp-Taunt, depending on the environment.
so i just needed 3 cards (300 dust) to finish senfglas grim warrior deck and i said what the heck its 300 dust and ill get a new deck so i crafted it. i played it for 10 games and got 8 wins.... wtf is this deck i love it. it didnt matter if i was playing vs aggro or control it seemed that i had a chance to win against anything. furthermore the deck needs a lot of skill, as you have to make many decisions in 1 turn, so its not only viable strong etc its also difficult to play, for players who want something that requires thought. i just wanted to share the pleasant surprise i had with this deck. i think its now my favourite deck
Enjoy it while it lasts. Everyone is expecting the OP, warsong/GP trick now.
I think it's an awful gimmick, warrior players are now just buying time until turn 8 to pull this crap off. Or turn 7 if they get Thaurissan out first. It certainly does NOT require any skill. I have tried it myself, and found it ridiculous how easy I could overcome an opponent with this trick. I think anyone who ever plays a little Warrior has tried it. Didn't take a genius or any net decking to figure Grim Patron would be wicked with warsong commander tbh.
I've won with the deck plenty of times without even using the charge/patron combo. I use 2 axeflingers and they work great as well. You can argue that any deck is an awful gimmick and does not require any skill. There's plenty of decks that just buy time until turn 8, or turn... fatigue death. It's a fun deck that actually works.
Obviously everyone is expecting it. That doesn't mean it can't be effective.
Have to disagree that it is a gimmick. Plenty of pro players are playing this deck in legit tournaments. A gimmick deck is, by definition, something that only has an off chance of winning, not one that can perform up to a solid win rate.
By that logic, every deck can be basically reduced to "survive until turn x, then do x" and no deck requires any skill to play.
The only cancer in Hearthstone is its community.
I had created a GP deck in theory the instant the card was announced and still play it, but I have the same issue with it as I do Combo Druid and Arcane/PO/Faceless Warlock (and to some degree muster/quartermaster) and that is that it is just not interactive from the opponent's side. Without HS allowing or creating some way to interact on the opponent's turn decks like this just feel cheap/gimmicky. Deeper interaction on the opponent's turn is the one thing I have been beating my drum about for a while and will continue too. People will realize at some point that without this it doesn't matter how many new cards get introduced, the game will remain the same time after time.
Only playing 3+ atk minions (taunt especially) and ensuring all AoE/Spell dmg is 3+ is about as much as the opponent can do aside from keeping a strong early board presence and pressure on.
DO you always "LOL" at simple truths? I'd get that checked.
I have a Druid deck without the combo, it wins just as much as the one with. Sure, every class has it's gimmick ... Warrior has a few already, like brawl-sylvanas ... cruel taskmaster and ... well ... lots of things! etc ...
I don't only play Druid btw, [could have put any one of 5 classes in as my fav] so why would I care about that specific 'gimmick'? I also play Warrior at times, did you not see where I said I've tried it myself? It's still an OP gimmick, and I see warrior players are almost depending on it now. And it is definitely not difficult to run Grim/warsong Warrior.
All admit that it's annoying to lose to it, especially when you know it's coming and you can't do anything to stop it, but I wouldn't call it a gimmick. I have faced this deck a number of times and it's not an automatic lose by any means.
lol this balthier guy 1 week before this he said " grim patron is not OP and certainly a warrior deck based on the grim patroncombo is not OP either. i confirmed this after playing against many people with this deck and i won like 70% with a garbage mech paladin midrange-tempo deck. i believe the best way to play grim patron is still in the old cw as an extra way to win. decks which rely only on the combo to win are gimmick-fun only. he is a card that requires another card(s) to work thats why it will never be reliable enough. if you drop him alone on turn 5 he does nothing on each own and your opponent will already have a board. by turn 9 that you say the combo activates and you lose or whatever....i will say that against aggro and midrange decks by turn 9 you already have lost or won. today i played against 3 warriors who played grim patron combo-only deck and won all of them and i played a single warrior who was a cw but he had grim patrons and commander only and i lost. not by the grim patron comboi lost from his other cw plays. that said he is not OP, people will try thesecombo only variances and eventually abandon them cause they are not reliable for ranked."
and now its sooo good lol so funny
Gimmick does not = auto-win. It's something that the deck revolves around, and the user builds to specifically. A one-trick pony, basically.
I've lost to it even though I knew it was coming more than a few times, there's little you can do at times. But I have also stubbed it out because it was so predictable.
It's not so great Vs decks that use beefy minions mostly. You can have all the grims you like, if they have to smash into 3+ att minions they won't be around long.
This thread really caught my eye and as i read it seems to be general consensus that this deck is good or even "op", i honestly would like to know what goes wrong because that confuses me. I have not lost a single match to this deck and get very pleased when i see the excessive card draw come down as indicator-it brings a smile to my face. I am a pretty versed player too, not all aggro or control, i prefer to try lots out but i have strayed from trying this deck because it does not seem good in my experience at all. I wish i had actual stats for you all but i know i've faced it 20+ times and not lost one, it's so predictable and you can easily disassemble their silly win-con. Why do you believe its "op"?
10/10 BM
requires skill? dont make me laugh...
Your final thought took my reply, while the cantrip is most often overwhelmingly effective when you have no clear it is so easy to obstruct i don't see how it can go off unless you just have to worst of luck in a match. I am currently at rank 3, unfortunately my legend comes very late in the season due to alot of time on school, and that is very true-when playing a bad opponent it's often an easy win...
10/10 BM
Agreed. That's what I was trying to say.
I actually think I have won more than lost playing against it. Like anything in the meta that everyone adopts, it's begins to get easier to anticipate and play accordingly.
Grim Patron sounds really gimmicky, but the more you play against it, the more you realize that it isn't. It's not actually very easy to play around, since they can keep the combo pieces in their hand, and it's not easy to bring down a Warrior before they make the play.
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My mandibles which are capable of pressing down and tearing, my talons which are known to intercept and hold.
when to damage your own patrons, when to play war song naked or patron naked, when to trade or no...there are actually ALOT of decisions you can screw up in this deck and its not always turn8 play WS+patron at all...in fact i do that turn 8 play in a vast minority of my games. i do think the skillcap on this deck is high enough that bad players will win with it sometimes and misplay others. I've certainly spectated some games where the pilots missed huge value potential while playing a patron deck. effective decks with high burst arent necessarily "easy to play ...so OP".
It's the easiest deck in the world if you see it as a gimmick deck were you just draw until you have your combo and then puke Patrons everywhere on the board. If you play it like that it's a inconsistent but entertaining deck, you'll probably average at a 45% win rate.
But if you know treat it like a normal combo deck you'll find it being much harder but also much more rewarding. The deck list is still not figured out but we are getting there. Dreamhack illustrated that perfectly. People who didn't know how to play it or how to play against it just didn't perform with or against it at all.
I think it was firebat who illustrated the best how to play the deck and that it's not just "wait for combo and roflestompfaceroll".
I'll be honest, I was sure Patron is trash and I kept that opinion with the fist few deck lists but I changed my mind with the newer ones. With every version it gets more consistent and less luckbased. I think it will stick as a combo deck just like miracle rogue back in the days and combo druid now. It requires set up and planing to play it on high level.
At the moment you can play it faceroll on ladder on lower ranks without a problem because people are not used to it but the day that this deck gets as popular as miracle rogue was people will learn to deal with it and the meta will shift to combat it and while miracle was OP and nearly impossible to actually play around it, I don't think that's the case with Patron warrior.
obviously when i was facing this deck i was playing against people who were bad players or had a bad decklist thats why i said this deck is crap. it was before senfglas made his decklist popular. i have played many decks and this is the only deck that i have to seriously think about what i will do and think fast cause the rope catches me up. whoever says that this deck doesnt require skill is obviously a moron or someone who hasnt played it. out of the 8 games i won the 3 was without the combo but with frothing berserker and mistakes my opponents did. aggro was flooding the board with minions and they didnt expect commander + berserker + whirwind for example. the first 2 times i played it i made so many mistakes that i realised them only when my turn was over. i seriously wonder if those people who say that this deck is "draw until you have the combo" actually know how to play this game
I think it's a strong deck, but I don't feel that it will be an enduring contender because of the matchups being what they are. Relative to Control Warrior, you are sacrificing a good Oil Rogue, Handlock/Demonlock and Priest matchups for somewhat better MIdrange Paladin and Shaman matchups. Arguably a slightly better Druid and Aggro Mage matchup, possibly if the opponent doesn't know how to play against the deck. Not a great tradeoff. It's because a lot of the decks that Warrior is really good against, such as Face Hunter, Zoolock, Freeze Mage, it's good because of the armor and not really anything the Warrior uses to win.
Adding a combo just adds more mana intensiveness to the middle turns where you would've otherwise used Hero Power, and a boatload of inconsistency. That's the price you pay for occasionally being able to blow out a Paladin and Shaman, or catch an unprepared Mage or Druid.
Warrior is just very suited to a Control strategy, which you'll end up playing most of the time Patron or not. It's not like Paladin, whose Muster Quartermaster combo is really similar, because it has an archetype that's well established. It's main weakness has always been that its card draw is somewhat inconsistent, and so the inconsistency of building in a combo is something that will be noticed over the long haul, even if some individual games seem to show Patron Warrior as explosive. At best, it will be a meta-game call whether to go Patron or Standard, kind of like how Druid chooses to go either Combo or full Ramp-Taunt, depending on the environment.