Its extremely susceptible to board clears. Tip the scales puts seven minions on the board so unless you are able to kill one off and buff the health by 2, most aoe can clear it off.
And if players keep playing super greedy highlander decks, this will not change.
My battlecry Shaman deck deals with murloc decks without an issue. I actually play board clears. I keep my Hagatha's scheme in my opening hand. I also play Earthquake for reborn minions as well as another late game push for board.
If they hit Lens on 4 AND you don't have a board clear, you will lose. Look at the decks now that are in the top tier. Warrior can handle it. Mage COULD handle it if they didnt play ultra greedy Conjurer or Highlander decks. Shaman can handle it. Warlock too. And Priest.
But if Priests are now playing ultra aggro healing, and they don't play Mass Hysteria, that seems like players are just bad at reading the meta and it's their own fault for losing.
You SHOULD NOT be losing against Paladin if you play Warrior, Shaman, Warlock or Priest. If you do, then build your deck differently. Otherwise, you are allowing this tier 3 deck to shine and run around claiming its good. It's not. Super High roll decks do not do well once players start building their decks to deal with it.
Mage has some tools too, but not sure if the builds can support it right now.
Druid, Paladin, Rogue and Hunter don't have the best cards for dealing with this turn 4/5 play as well or at all.
You have 4 classes that can beat this deck. 4 classes that lose and 1 class that could if they didn't have a dominant deck type themselves.
The fact that these cards (Tip the Scales and Lens) are winning games is not a testament to its actual win rate. It's a testament to the current meta not adjusting and letting a deck like this run rampant.
People are still trying to 'have fun' or experiment or find the next meta breaking deck. This deck does win though and will always do so, but not because it's that good. Deck building is bad and greedy right now.
Just look at the deck lists right now in the top tiers. How many board clears in each deck? Right. Not many, except for warrior.
Imagine looking at HSreplay for insight on wheter a deck is good or not. Remember last exp when the god deck according to HSreplay was zoolock, when it was actually an extremely bad deck ?
And idk man, I haven't faced a murloc paladin in days.
You can also beat this deck without board clears. If you play an aggressive deck, you use their lens turn to swing the board and leverage from there. Although they get 7 minions next turn, unless they hit a Bluegill and make it count, you still have initiative and can trade off the Oracles/Warleaders (usually making the rest of their board janky af), while developing your own board further. The only way you lose is if they have a good curve before lens so you can't take board control as easily. I went positive against Murloc Paladin playing Aggro Warrior from 5 to legend and was generally pretty happy to queue into them on the way.
Other aggro decks may find it slightly tougher than Warrior as they generally don't have the same access to Rush minions and Weapons but honestly I can't even see Zoo struggling to beat this deck given how fast they can build a powerful board.
Also, if this is such a winning deck, why aren't people bringing this deck to high level tournaments and winning with them?
That's right, because its a flash in the pan, high roll deck. That has hard counters in the best deck in Standard right now. Warrior. If you can't beat warrior, don't bother trying with 'cute' combos.
Tip the Scales forces bad deckbuilding because many of murlocs don't impact the board themselves. But I say if you are having fun, then go for it.
I caution supporting threads like this and encouraging this. People will make the mistake of spending Dust to build this deck and regret it. As a public service, DON'T DO IT! You have to craft 4 Epics that have very little use outside of this deck. You could play the Duel/Lens deck too. But that requires lots of high end Legendary and Epics too or the deck doesn't work.
So my negativity comes in the form of posts like this, getting people to craft cards and decks that are terrible in the long run. This deck will not stay top tier. Build something that actually wins without getting lucky and requiring NO decisions, other than this....
Do I have Lens in my opening Hand? Do I have Tip the Scales in my opening Hand? Get rid of everything not Lens. End of decision making.
Murloc Paladin is just a braindead highroll aggro deck. I don't know how it's doing so well when pretty much every board clear in existence totally bones it.
Murloc Paladin is just a braindead highroll aggro deck. I don't know how it's doing so well when pretty much every board clear in existence totally bones it.
2 reasons.
First of all it is favoured against Mage (which makes up 20% of the meta at legend and 15% at lower ranks) - it generates early pressure with Murlocs, which Mage is weak against. If it lucks an on curve Lens > TTS, Mage's 6/7 cost AoEs are not yet online to deal with it without Doomsayer leading into the Paladin's turn 5 (or 4 on coin). The Paladin deck is likely to deal critical chip damage with the first wave of Murlocs, and then it plays Leeroy, Zephrys and Chef Nomi to finish the game.
Secondly the deck is countered by L2P, which always promotes a high win rate in the early days. Players at higher ranks understand that you don't have to concede to a Lens > TTS on curve, and also have a clearer understanding of how to play their early game out in order to maximise their potential to trade off as much of the board as possible and minimise the early damage they take. At lower ranks however, there will be a lot of people conceding instantly when the TTS comes down because they either didn't set up for it correctly or simply don't believe they can beat it. The mulligan win rate of Lens is 66% and the played win rate of TTS is 59%, and I'll be shocked if these numbers are not hyper inflated by a huge amount of rage concedes.
The deck is pretty good, don't get me wrong, but its win rate will decline RAPIDLY when strategies against it become better known further down the ladder.
So far I've enoucountered several Murloc Palis with my Highlander Paladin and beat them every time. I did have decent draws though and many times I've won thanks to Nozari.
Im playing Reno Mage and win 90% of the time Vs murloc pallies. Nova, doomsayer, blizzard, flamestrike, Reno, Zephrys, tortollian and vulpera is more than enough to deal with it
Also, if this is such a winning deck, why aren't people bringing this deck to high level tournaments and winning with them?
B/c until now, all the high level tournaments were Specialist, and this deck has like 2 flex spots. Also,Team NoProsHere still listed it as T8 Capable. So it was still "fine."
Murloc Paladin is just a braindead highroll aggro deck. I don't know how it's doing so well when pretty much every board clear in existence totally bones it.
2 reasons.
First of all it is favoured against Mage (which makes up 20% of the meta at legend and 15% at lower ranks) - it generates early pressure with Murlocs, which Mage is weak against. If it lucks an on curve Lens > TTS, Mage's 6/7 cost AoEs are not yet online to deal with it without Doomsayer leading into the Paladin's turn 5 (or 4 on coin). The Paladin deck is likely to deal critical chip damage with the first wave of Murlocs, and then it plays Leeroy, Zephrys and Chef Nomi to finish the game.
Secondly the deck is countered by L2P, which always promotes a high win rate in the early days. Players at higher ranks understand that you don't have to concede to a Lens > TTS on curve, and also have a clearer understanding of how to play their early game out in order to maximise their potential to trade off as much of the board as possible and minimise the early damage they take. At lower ranks however, there will be a lot of people conceding instantly when the TTS comes down because they either didn't set up for it correctly or simply don't believe they can beat it. The mulligan win rate of Lens is 66% and the played win rate of TTS is 59%, and I'll be shocked if these numbers are not hyper inflated by a huge amount of rage concedes.
The deck is pretty good, don't get me wrong, but its win rate will decline RAPIDLY when strategies against it become better known further down the ladder.
I dunno I was beating murloc paladin with quest druid and secret mage. I imagine Highlander mage probably walks all over it too. Maybe it's just favored against the super greedy conjure mage lists. You're probabaly right about the rage concedes though
Remember guys when people said murloc paladin was going drop to be tier 3?? xD lmfao. clueless people.
Always trust stats on hsreplay!! :D
The only thing preventing murlock paladin to be Tier S is control warrior.
I've been playin murloc paladin from rank 7 and so far so good. I'm currently at rank 2. Very strong deck.
member when someone one said paladin wasnt going to see any play this expansion, missing lens + tip the scales was such a bungle.
Its extremely susceptible to board clears. Tip the scales puts seven minions on the board so unless you are able to kill one off and buff the health by 2, most aoe can clear it off.
And if players keep playing super greedy highlander decks, this will not change.
My battlecry Shaman deck deals with murloc decks without an issue. I actually play board clears. I keep my Hagatha's scheme in my opening hand. I also play Earthquake for reborn minions as well as another late game push for board.
If they hit Lens on 4 AND you don't have a board clear, you will lose. Look at the decks now that are in the top tier. Warrior can handle it. Mage COULD handle it if they didnt play ultra greedy Conjurer or Highlander decks. Shaman can handle it. Warlock too. And Priest.
But if Priests are now playing ultra aggro healing, and they don't play Mass Hysteria, that seems like players are just bad at reading the meta and it's their own fault for losing.
You SHOULD NOT be losing against Paladin if you play Warrior, Shaman, Warlock or Priest. If you do, then build your deck differently. Otherwise, you are allowing this tier 3 deck to shine and run around claiming its good. It's not. Super High roll decks do not do well once players start building their decks to deal with it.
Mage has some tools too, but not sure if the builds can support it right now.
Druid, Paladin, Rogue and Hunter don't have the best cards for dealing with this turn 4/5 play as well or at all.
You have 4 classes that can beat this deck. 4 classes that lose and 1 class that could if they didn't have a dominant deck type themselves.
The fact that these cards (Tip the Scales and Lens) are winning games is not a testament to its actual win rate. It's a testament to the current meta not adjusting and letting a deck like this run rampant.
People are still trying to 'have fun' or experiment or find the next meta breaking deck. This deck does win though and will always do so, but not because it's that good. Deck building is bad and greedy right now.
Just look at the deck lists right now in the top tiers. How many board clears in each deck? Right. Not many, except for warrior.
Imagine looking at HSreplay for insight on wheter a deck is good or not. Remember last exp when the god deck according to HSreplay was zoolock, when it was actually an extremely bad deck ?
And idk man, I haven't faced a murloc paladin in days.
It's a good deck, but not very fun to play IMO. "Braindead aggro" jokes aside, this one doesn't have many meaningful decisions to make.
You can also beat this deck without board clears. If you play an aggressive deck, you use their lens turn to swing the board and leverage from there. Although they get 7 minions next turn, unless they hit a Bluegill and make it count, you still have initiative and can trade off the Oracles/Warleaders (usually making the rest of their board janky af), while developing your own board further. The only way you lose is if they have a good curve before lens so you can't take board control as easily. I went positive against Murloc Paladin playing Aggro Warrior from 5 to legend and was generally pretty happy to queue into them on the way.
Other aggro decks may find it slightly tougher than Warrior as they generally don't have the same access to Rush minions and Weapons but honestly I can't even see Zoo struggling to beat this deck given how fast they can build a powerful board.
I really like the version that use Nomi, you can set 3 massive boards very quickly and only warrior can deal with that.
Put or not put Nomi in the deck is really the only decision you make when play with this.
Also, if this is such a winning deck, why aren't people bringing this deck to high level tournaments and winning with them?
That's right, because its a flash in the pan, high roll deck. That has hard counters in the best deck in Standard right now. Warrior. If you can't beat warrior, don't bother trying with 'cute' combos.
Tip the Scales forces bad deckbuilding because many of murlocs don't impact the board themselves. But I say if you are having fun, then go for it.
I caution supporting threads like this and encouraging this. People will make the mistake of spending Dust to build this deck and regret it. As a public service, DON'T DO IT! You have to craft 4 Epics that have very little use outside of this deck. You could play the Duel/Lens deck too. But that requires lots of high end Legendary and Epics too or the deck doesn't work.
So my negativity comes in the form of posts like this, getting people to craft cards and decks that are terrible in the long run. This deck will not stay top tier. Build something that actually wins without getting lucky and requiring NO decisions, other than this....
Do I have Lens in my opening Hand? Do I have Tip the Scales in my opening Hand? Get rid of everything not Lens. End of decision making.
Murloc Paladin is just a braindead highroll aggro deck. I don't know how it's doing so well when pretty much every board clear in existence totally bones it.
2 reasons.
First of all it is favoured against Mage (which makes up 20% of the meta at legend and 15% at lower ranks) - it generates early pressure with Murlocs, which Mage is weak against. If it lucks an on curve Lens > TTS, Mage's 6/7 cost AoEs are not yet online to deal with it without Doomsayer leading into the Paladin's turn 5 (or 4 on coin). The Paladin deck is likely to deal critical chip damage with the first wave of Murlocs, and then it plays Leeroy, Zephrys and Chef Nomi to finish the game.
Secondly the deck is countered by L2P, which always promotes a high win rate in the early days. Players at higher ranks understand that you don't have to concede to a Lens > TTS on curve, and also have a clearer understanding of how to play their early game out in order to maximise their potential to trade off as much of the board as possible and minimise the early damage they take. At lower ranks however, there will be a lot of people conceding instantly when the TTS comes down because they either didn't set up for it correctly or simply don't believe they can beat it. The mulligan win rate of Lens is 66% and the played win rate of TTS is 59%, and I'll be shocked if these numbers are not hyper inflated by a huge amount of rage concedes.
The deck is pretty good, don't get me wrong, but its win rate will decline RAPIDLY when strategies against it become better known further down the ladder.
i like to call that deck
"the noob eater"
So far I've enoucountered several Murloc Palis with my Highlander Paladin and beat them every time. I did have decent draws though and many times I've won thanks to Nozari.
Im playing Reno Mage and win 90% of the time Vs murloc pallies. Nova, doomsayer, blizzard, flamestrike, Reno, Zephrys, tortollian and vulpera is more than enough to deal with it
B/c until now, all the high level tournaments were Specialist, and this deck has like 2 flex spots.
Also,Team NoProsHere still listed it as T8 Capable. So it was still "fine."
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I dunno I was beating murloc paladin with quest druid and secret mage. I imagine Highlander mage probably walks all over it too. Maybe it's just favored against the super greedy conjure mage lists. You're probabaly right about the rage concedes though
Those braindead murloc paladins are giving my favorite class a bad name. What a shame.