UPDATE: There are a lot of good recommendations in this thread about how to get more cards in the game.
As a former MTG player, I don't feel like there are enough cards coming into the game in a single year. MTG constantly has new products on the horizon for both Standard and other formats, so new cards are plentiful. That said, a lot of cards get reprinted in that game, and they have an abundance of functional reprints (same card, same function, different name). In many ways, this is just as exciting as getting brand new cards, because of new combos and interactions that can come from this. It's also a nostalgic thing - we love seeing our old friends!
I'm thinking a small set that brings 45 Wild cards back into the Standard format. After Wild gets larger, this could be pretty cool.
Fans vote for 9 of the cards (controlled by Blizzard) (1 Legend, 2 Epic, 3 Rare, 3 Common)
After a card comes back, it can't be voted on for 3 years.
Annual naming, Revenge '16, Rebirth '16 or similar
Cards will NOT be from the sets that just rotated out (will take some time to get this going).
Will fill the spot in the calendar year that would keep HS on a quarterly release for new content (The wait from Nov. to Apr. is a long one).
Before Standard rotates, there would be 90 additional Wild cards back in the format.
When those Wild cards return, they are obtainable through crafting or Classic Packs with the other classic cards.
There is so much that Hearthstone does that is a lot better than MTG. With no outrageous aftermarket this would be a great way to take advantage of the legacy Hearthstone is creating.
Keeps things fresh
Introduces new players to the older cards
New interactions will be introduced by crossing the streams (cards from set A and set E, but not all cards from those sets, mixed with all new cards)
Veteran players feel better about their investment (and won't disenchant all their Wild cards every time the rotation happens - more $$$ for Blizz!)
I miss some core cards that are now Wild-labeled. Velen's Chosen, Loatheb, Duplicate, Zombie Chow, Antique Healbot, Darkbomb and Lightbomb. They seem to be so niche for a LOT of non-aggro decks and we didn't get any real replacements while lots of aggressive cards have been printed in both WotOG and Karazhan. As a result, there is near to none viable control decks and we have this Shaman/Hunter/Warriorstone for months. So I would definitely love to see these cards in Standard (but no Belcher 'cause of N'Zoth), but voting? If only they would do voting to know what the majority wants. But then again: the majority is below rank 10 and plays aggro decks. Do we want that kind of voting? No, thanks.
I actually like the idea behind this but they shouldn't let community decide, as people above have said. Everyone would just vote the most viable cards back whereas I would like to see more niche cards like Hobgoblin make a temporary return. The best way to keep Standard fresh is to let the most powerful cards rotate out and not to bring them back.
You are advocating for reprints and functional "reprinting" ... Last time around people cried over this idea.
Reprinting and functional reprinting is needed, is relevant and is a MUST for card games. The real situation here is lack of content honestly. OniK brought ONLY 45 new cards to the meta, that's pathetic compared to any other card game, now now, they don't need to print 200 cards every set because they don't do reprints today but they eventually will have to, and then the game will be more enjoyable, mechanics will cycle a lot more organically.
There are (imo) 3 types of HS consumers,
1) The ones that came from other videogames and has 0 experience in card games. They are demanding and pushy, expecting this game to be under the guidelines they are used to in videogames because, why not? this is a blizzard product, is a videogame, why should HS be different to other videogames? Without knowing card games, for as much digital stuff you throw at it is more a monopoly or a risk than a call of duty or league of legends. This are the ones that think "reprints = lack of creativity, burn in hell team5 (but we will still play this game)"
2) The ones that came from other card games. Like me, we are accustomed to how card games works, and as good or bad as the game is right now (I think the game is pretty nice right now, the enviroment that the dev team is promoting is the one that is wrong), so reprinting is something we are used to and some times something we eaguerly await to (freakin' DAMNATION REPRINT! COME ON WIZ'!)
3) The ones that got caught by marketing and give it a chance to card games, placing their trust on blizzard's famed renown, they are the more receptive ones (even more than the ones with experience in card games, because they don't have expectancies of what to see) and are the easier to carry to the right or wrong side of things.
Obvs there is no way to generalize as much as the examples, I come from both, videogames like LoL, TeamFortress, Starcraft2, Command&Conquer, etc but also from board games like magic the gathering, YGO, pokemon, whatevs.
I advocate for reprints, but not right now. Right now what we need is to open design space, stop producing overvalued cards without printing removal related to it (why the shaman weapon demands a keyword to be good but tunnel trogg is good even before the keyword happens? This is counter productive for the health of the game as we see right now in standard) and focusing in making more reactive and chain-able effects instead of "one of big hit shots, every single shot"
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
There is nothing left if you can not has the right to bear your arms - werebear 2016-eternity campaign
I actually like the idea behind this but they shouldn't let community decide, as people above have said. Everyone would just vote the most viable cards back whereas I would like to see more niche cards like Hobgoblin make a temporary return. The best way to keep Standard fresh is to let the most powerful cards rotate out and not to bring them back.
Yeah, and because people are people they would all vote for whatever cards they need in their deck currently. I'd much rather the community not be the ones to decide. The card choices would probably be much better if they weren't choosing.
I wouldn't let this community vote on what battle board should be added to the game, so letting people to vote on cards... Yeah, great idea. Just look at how people evaluated cards from Kara in terms of playability (tip: some of the best cards are ridiculously low on the list, while cards with little to no impact on the game are on top) and you'll know Hearthstone community should have no right to vote or anything.
Hahahaha... So true. I've had more fun with the supposed jank cards of the Kara set. That's why limiting votes to 10 cards or so would help this issue. I think they could figure out how to get the community involved AND maintain some control.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Ideas on how to get more variety in the meta and card pool.
I agree on limiting the number of cards which turn per "wild rotation" to less than 45 (maybe 15), but with a smaller number I'd actually be ok with community votes. From what I've seen of this thread, a lot of people don't want the op cards back; maybe they just won't get enough votes. I'm sure a few will come back here and there, but them rotating out and then having a 3 year vote ban imposed should keep op deck resurrecting in check.
Let the community vote! Worst case it makes them smarter, because they release how broken certain cards is, and how hard balance is to obtain.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I am The Cripple Who Is Whole, and the loving creator of Dragon Lord Velen:
One semi-compromise would be to only phase out neutral cards, and keeping all class cards for standard. This would allow classes to form multiple playstyles and identities, though I can see some issues with closing up design space in the long term, and OP class cards being rampant.
Buy and large... I don't think we want class cards to be immortalized, if only because different classes receive cards of varying power levels, based on their abilities to utilize neutral minions. Shaman, Paladin, and Warlock would all receive massive buffs from the immortalization of class cards, while the other 6 classes would receive varying degrees of support, all significantly below that of the big 3.
If the community can't be trusted to vote, aren't we all part of the community? Meaning we're all too dumb to know what's best for HS? Plus, you're implying that Blizzard would know better. Do they really?
A shortlist that people vote on would be a nice middleground, though I can bet that there will be people who are unsatisfied with the results, thinking their X cards are better than the X cards the community voted for.
I would agree that the powerful cards should NOT make a return. We all love Zombie Chow, but man was it powerful. No neutral 1-drop these days can compare. I would rather stuff like Hobgoblin return, cards who got support too late. Just be careful we're not improving already powerful decks. Death's Bite? Stay dead please.
OP - I really like this idea but I don't think it will happen. But I think they will eventually bring back some old cards. Here's how I think it will happen:
In a couple of years Blizzard will announce that they are releasing Classic 2 in order to freshen up the meta even more. This is great and similar to MtG when they release the Classic 15th edition etc every two years. Classic 2 will replace current Classic in Standard.
Classic 2 will still have some cards from Classic 1 but with new art. They will also 'reprint' some cards from Adventures and older expansion like Antique Healbot for example.
The reprints will all have new art. Once reprints are released, players will not be able to craft the original art version anymore. This will give older players an advantage ito the coolness of having the original version of the card (kinda like black border in MtG).
Classic 2 will see some Classic 1 cards leave Standard for the time being eg Tirion, Ice Block etc. That doesn't mean they will be gone forever but they won't be viable in Classic for a couple of years - no biggie. It would be good to see another 7/8 drop Pally legendary that isn't Tirion get some play.
That's my prediction and I think it would work pretty well.
Removing standard/ wild and balancing cards >>> your idea.
Make Dr. Boom 5/5 with 2 boombots Sludge Belcher [/card] 2/5 [card]Piloted Shredder 3/3 Mad Scientistdeathrattle: gives one secret in you hand. Voidcaller gives a maximum of 5 mana demon summoned (to avoid turn 5 Mal'Ganis gg).
If the community can't be trusted to vote, aren't we all part of the community? Meaning we're all too dumb to know what's best for HS? Plus, you're implying that Blizzard would know better. Do they really?
A shortlist that people vote on would be a nice middleground, though I can bet that there will be people who are unsatisfied with the results, thinking their X cards are better than the X cards the community voted for.
I would agree that the powerful cards should NOT make a return. We all love Zombie Chow, but man was it powerful. No neutral 1-drop these days can compare. I would rather stuff like Hobgoblin return, cards who got support too late. Just be careful we're not improving already powerful decks. Death's Bite? Stay dead please.
Uhm, I would say no, people shouldn't be allowed to vote, they could give opinions, like in a focus group when analizing a product's effectiveness, but as far as deciding what cards should be included? no, just because the cards define the meta, and random votes would make a horrible meta, well thought and constructed selection of cards for each cycle is what any card game needs, not random swaps from random votes.
Removing standard/ wild and balancing cards >>> your idea.
Make Dr. Boom 5/5 with 2 boombots Sludge Belcher [/card] 2/5 [card]Piloted Shredder 3/3 Mad Scientistdeathrattle: gives one secret in you hand. Voidcaller gives a maximum of 5 mana demon summoned (to avoid turn 5 Mal'Ganis gg).
Should be good.
Balancing old cards is good and imo, really needed for the sake of wild, but rotations is a must, is the easiest way to make the game not stale to death, it lets the designer have design space since they don't have to worry about old interactions to affect positive/negatively what they are intending to do, and at the end of the day, people constantly want new cards, demanding to have new an interesting stuff to play with and nobody will play "new and cool" if it´s not "new, cool AND STRONGER than what we already have" as seen with doctor boom.
So, rotation is here to stay, and here to keep the game alive.
That is why Modern Magic format is much more hype than standard, you are not restricted by a small card pool. Hope wild will become supported by tournaments and standard will disappear.
What most players (not all) seem to ignore is that the control cards they want back are just as op as the aggro cards they doom. I mean every control deck played chow/belcher/healbot, so those people don't give a fuck on diversity a long as it fits their playstyle.
Of course that doesn't mean that no wild card should ever return. But when they return it should not be a reprint imo. Cards are expensive for a digital good (you can't compare them with real cards since you're able to resell those) and I don't want to get cards from sets which I decided not to buy anymore in new or classic packs.
Buy and large... I don't think we want class cards to be immortalized, if only because different classes receive cards of varying power levels, based on their abilities to utilize neutral minions. Shaman, Paladin, and Warlock would all receive massive buffs from the immortalization of class cards, while the other 6 classes would receive varying degrees of support, all significantly below that of the big 3.
If only this was a pure digital game where they could change cards once per week if they wanted to...
I'm not too worried about the community. I think in a controlled environment, we could have some fun with this.
I'm not asking for the community to vote on Dr. Boom every time, but even if he did return, he wouldn't come back for 3 years after he went back to Wild. Maybe the neutral cards are left to Blizzard. We vote on 9 cards - 1 from each class. We are presented with a choice of 3 cards and we decide which one we want to return.
I think Blizzard can handle that. Plus, if they know a certain card is returning, they can design new cards to compliment it or defend against it.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Ideas on how to get more variety in the meta and card pool.
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UPDATE: There are a lot of good recommendations in this thread about how to get more cards in the game.
As a former MTG player, I don't feel like there are enough cards coming into the game in a single year. MTG constantly has new products on the horizon for both Standard and other formats, so new cards are plentiful. That said, a lot of cards get reprinted in that game, and they have an abundance of functional reprints (same card, same function, different name). In many ways, this is just as exciting as getting brand new cards, because of new combos and interactions that can come from this. It's also a nostalgic thing - we love seeing our old friends!
I'm thinking a small set that brings 45 Wild cards back into the Standard format. After Wild gets larger, this could be pretty cool.
There is so much that Hearthstone does that is a lot better than MTG. With no outrageous aftermarket this would be a great way to take advantage of the legacy Hearthstone is creating.
Ideas on how to get more variety in the meta and card pool.
I miss some core cards that are now Wild-labeled. Velen's Chosen, Loatheb, Duplicate, Zombie Chow, Antique Healbot, Darkbomb and Lightbomb. They seem to be so niche for a LOT of non-aggro decks and we didn't get any real replacements while lots of aggressive cards have been printed in both WotOG and Karazhan. As a result, there is near to none viable control decks and we have this Shaman/Hunter/Warriorstone for months. So I would definitely love to see these cards in Standard (but no Belcher 'cause of N'Zoth), but voting? If only they would do voting to know what the majority wants. But then again: the majority is below rank 10 and plays aggro decks. Do we want that kind of voting? No, thanks.
Paper is fine, nerf Rock. Sincerely, Scissors.
I actually like the idea behind this but they shouldn't let community decide, as people above have said. Everyone would just vote the most viable cards back whereas I would like to see more niche cards like Hobgoblin make a temporary return. The best way to keep Standard fresh is to let the most powerful cards rotate out and not to bring them back.
You are advocating for reprints and functional "reprinting" ... Last time around people cried over this idea.
Reprinting and functional reprinting is needed, is relevant and is a MUST for card games. The real situation here is lack of content honestly. OniK brought ONLY 45 new cards to the meta, that's pathetic compared to any other card game, now now, they don't need to print 200 cards every set because they don't do reprints today but they eventually will have to, and then the game will be more enjoyable, mechanics will cycle a lot more organically.
There are (imo) 3 types of HS consumers,
1) The ones that came from other videogames and has 0 experience in card games. They are demanding and pushy, expecting this game to be under the guidelines they are used to in videogames because, why not? this is a blizzard product, is a videogame, why should HS be different to other videogames? Without knowing card games, for as much digital stuff you throw at it is more a monopoly or a risk than a call of duty or league of legends. This are the ones that think "reprints = lack of creativity, burn in hell team5 (but we will still play this game)"
2) The ones that came from other card games. Like me, we are accustomed to how card games works, and as good or bad as the game is right now (I think the game is pretty nice right now, the enviroment that the dev team is promoting is the one that is wrong), so reprinting is something we are used to and some times something we eaguerly await to (freakin' DAMNATION REPRINT! COME ON WIZ'!)
3) The ones that got caught by marketing and give it a chance to card games, placing their trust on blizzard's famed renown, they are the more receptive ones (even more than the ones with experience in card games, because they don't have expectancies of what to see) and are the easier to carry to the right or wrong side of things.
Obvs there is no way to generalize as much as the examples, I come from both, videogames like LoL, TeamFortress, Starcraft2, Command&Conquer, etc but also from board games like magic the gathering, YGO, pokemon, whatevs.
I advocate for reprints, but not right now. Right now what we need is to open design space, stop producing overvalued cards without printing removal related to it (why the shaman weapon demands a keyword to be good but tunnel trogg is good even before the keyword happens? This is counter productive for the health of the game as we see right now in standard) and focusing in making more reactive and chain-able effects instead of "one of big hit shots, every single shot"
There is nothing left if you can not has the right to bear your arms - werebear 2016-eternity campaign
From the Vault: Wild
Confirmed.
Nature is the Day.
Man is the Sun.
Woman is the Moon.
The Stone is the Sky.
The Art is the Way.
Ideas on how to get more variety in the meta and card pool.
I agree on limiting the number of cards which turn per "wild rotation" to less than 45 (maybe 15), but with a smaller number I'd actually be ok with community votes. From what I've seen of this thread, a lot of people don't want the op cards back; maybe they just won't get enough votes. I'm sure a few will come back here and there, but them rotating out and then having a 3 year vote ban imposed should keep op deck resurrecting in check.
Let the community vote! Worst case it makes them smarter, because they release how broken certain cards is, and how hard balance is to obtain.
I am The Cripple Who Is Whole, and the loving creator of Dragon Lord Velen:
One semi-compromise would be to only phase out neutral cards, and keeping all class cards for standard. This would allow classes to form multiple playstyles and identities, though I can see some issues with closing up design space in the long term, and OP class cards being rampant.
Hmmm... what cards would this give us back?
Dark Cultist, Velen's Chosen, Lightbomb, and Shrinkmeister for priest
Death's Bite, Shieldmaiden for warrior
Non-mill druid gets nothing from this, other than preservation of Fandral Staghelm (which I don't think counts)
Tinker's Sharpsword Oil and Goblin Auto-Barber for rogue
Glaivezooka and Webspinner for hunter
Voidcaller, Mal'Ganis, Darkbomb, AND Imp-losion for warlock (yikes)
Quartermaster, Muster for Battle, Shielded Minibot, Avenge, immunity for Mysterious Challenger, and immunity for Murloc Knight for paladin (yikes, secret paladin returns)
Reincarnate, Crackle, Powermace, Whirling Zap-o-matic, and the immortalization of aggro shaman for shaman (ok)
Flamecannon, Unstable Portal, Snowchugger, and immortalization of Flamewaker for mage
Buy and large... I don't think we want class cards to be immortalized, if only because different classes receive cards of varying power levels, based on their abilities to utilize neutral minions. Shaman, Paladin, and Warlock would all receive massive buffs from the immortalization of class cards, while the other 6 classes would receive varying degrees of support, all significantly below that of the big 3.
I am The Cripple Who Is Whole, and the loving creator of Dragon Lord Velen:
If the community can't be trusted to vote, aren't we all part of the community? Meaning we're all too dumb to know what's best for HS? Plus, you're implying that Blizzard would know better. Do they really?
A shortlist that people vote on would be a nice middleground, though I can bet that there will be people who are unsatisfied with the results, thinking their X cards are better than the X cards the community voted for.
I would agree that the powerful cards should NOT make a return. We all love Zombie Chow, but man was it powerful. No neutral 1-drop these days can compare. I would rather stuff like Hobgoblin return, cards who got support too late. Just be careful we're not improving already powerful decks. Death's Bite? Stay dead please.
If you got the coin, the Mercenaries get going. Vote for The Mercenary for CCC #3.
OP - I really like this idea but I don't think it will happen. But I think they will eventually bring back some old cards. Here's how I think it will happen:
In a couple of years Blizzard will announce that they are releasing Classic 2 in order to freshen up the meta even more. This is great and similar to MtG when they release the Classic 15th edition etc every two years. Classic 2 will replace current Classic in Standard.
Classic 2 will still have some cards from Classic 1 but with new art. They will also 'reprint' some cards from Adventures and older expansion like Antique Healbot for example.
The reprints will all have new art. Once reprints are released, players will not be able to craft the original art version anymore. This will give older players an advantage ito the coolness of having the original version of the card (kinda like black border in MtG).
Classic 2 will see some Classic 1 cards leave Standard for the time being eg Tirion, Ice Block etc. That doesn't mean they will be gone forever but they won't be viable in Classic for a couple of years - no biggie. It would be good to see another 7/8 drop Pally legendary that isn't Tirion get some play.
That's my prediction and I think it would work pretty well.
Missing lethal since June 2015.
Removing standard/ wild and balancing cards >>> your idea.
Make Dr. Boom 5/5 with 2 boombots
Sludge Belcher [/card] 2/5
[card]Piloted Shredder 3/3
Mad Scientistdeathrattle: gives one secret in you hand.
Voidcaller gives a maximum of 5 mana demon summoned (to avoid turn 5 Mal'Ganis gg).
Should be good.
There's never a best, world constantly evolve.
There is nothing left if you can not has the right to bear your arms - werebear 2016-eternity campaign
There is nothing left if you can not has the right to bear your arms - werebear 2016-eternity campaign
That is why Modern Magic format is much more hype than standard, you are not restricted by a small card pool.
Hope wild will become supported by tournaments and standard will disappear.
There's never a best, world constantly evolve.
What most players (not all) seem to ignore is that the control cards they want back are just as op as the aggro cards they doom. I mean every control deck played chow/belcher/healbot, so those people don't give a fuck on diversity a long as it fits their playstyle.
Of course that doesn't mean that no wild card should ever return. But when they return it should not be a reprint imo. Cards are expensive for a digital good (you can't compare them with real cards since you're able to resell those) and I don't want to get cards from sets which I decided not to buy anymore in new or classic packs.
I'm not too worried about the community. I think in a controlled environment, we could have some fun with this.
I'm not asking for the community to vote on Dr. Boom every time, but even if he did return, he wouldn't come back for 3 years after he went back to Wild. Maybe the neutral cards are left to Blizzard. We vote on 9 cards - 1 from each class. We are presented with a choice of 3 cards and we decide which one we want to return.
I think Blizzard can handle that. Plus, if they know a certain card is returning, they can design new cards to compliment it or defend against it.
Ideas on how to get more variety in the meta and card pool.