Ok, so a few minutes ago Kibler came out with yet another video on why "Genn and Baku" represent a problem that Blizzard will have to solve. He made a comment about Dean Ayala confirming these cards are on the radar to be "fixed" before the next set drops.
My question is simple: Is it really a "Genn and Baku" problem, or is it just a Baku problem?
Think about it for a second. Many of us greeted the announcement of the most recent set of nerfs . . . until we reached the Flametongue Totem. Shaman has NOTHING right now. There are only a few shamen playing in Legend to 5 over the past 3 days, and they barely lip over 50% win rates. I wish I had a snapshot of the same report before flametongue was nerfed, but I don't recall the oppression of Even Shaman being much of a thing.
What's left? Even Paladin is what it is, but with the Equality nerf we are seeing a better balance between using Genn and using even and odd cards (I'm ignoring the Baku decks for the moment). Even Warlock has a few versions flirting with 60% (though not breaking that threshold), but come on. Can you really with a straight face say that Even Paladin and Even Lock are on the same level of problematicness as Odd Paladin, Odd Warrior (with or without quest), Odd Mage (aggro or control), etc. When is the last time you saw a warrior without Baku in his deck? Until Kibler started playing the Rush warrior last week, I swear to God I don't think I saw one even warrior spell since Witchwood.
Stop talking about Genn and Baku as this inseparable pair. We have this weird idea that upgraded power for 2 is somehow equal (or in some cases even remotely similar) to non-upgraded for one. They aren't. Warlock is probably the only class where you could make a mathematical argument for Genn being the more powerful option, but again, that is not sufficient reason to gut the card.
Just a thought. Take it or leave it. God save the dev team if they don't come up with something viable for shaman in 2019.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Well, I'm proceeding from the premise that there is a problem to fix. The reason I wrote this is because I'm afraid they're going to use the "nuke from orbit" approach to nerfing Baku, and I'm suggesting that Genn doesn't need to die alongside him (her?).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Ok, so a few minutes ago Kibler came out with yet another video on why "Genn and Baku" represent a problem that Blizzard will have to solve. He made a comment about Dean Ayala confirming these cards are on the radar to be "fixed" before the next set drops.
My question is simple: Is it really a "Genn and Baku" problem, or is it just a Baku problem?
Think about it for a second. Many of us greeted the announcement of the most recent set of nerfs . . . until we reached the Flametongue Totem. Shaman has NOTHING right now. There are only a few shamen playing in Legend to 5 over the past 3 days, and they barely lip over 50% win rates. I wish I had a snapshot of the same report before flametongue was nerfed, but I don't recall the oppression of Even Shaman being much of a thing.
What's left? Even Paladin is what it is, but with the Equality nerf we are seeing a better balance between using Genn and using even and odd cards (I'm ignoring the Baku decks for the moment). Even Warlock has a few versions flirting with 60% (though not breaking that threshold), but come on. Can you really with a straight face say that Even Paladin and Even Lock are on the same level of problematicness as Odd Paladin, Odd Warrior (with or without quest), Odd Mage (aggro or control), etc. When is the last time you saw a warrior without Baku in his deck? Until Kibler started playing the Rush warrior last week, I swear to God I don't think I saw one even warrior spell since Witchwood.
Stop talking about Genn and Baku as this inseparable pair. We have this weird idea that upgraded power for 2 is somehow equal (or in some cases even remotely similar) to non-upgraded for one. They aren't. Warlock is probably the only class where you could make a mathematical argument for Genn being the more powerful option, but again, that is not sufficient reason to gut the card.
Just a thought. Take it or leave it. God save the dev team if they don't come up with something viable for shaman in 2019.
Genn may not be oppressive in Standard, but in Wild, Even Warlock and especially Even Shaman are insane.
The reason why Genn and Baku need a change is because even when they exit standard they will ALWAYS be a problem in Wild, because anytime they release ANY card, they could bolster already OP decks.
I think both of them are a problem, which is - limiting the designing space they have for every new card. Maybe Genn is not a problem now, but it can become, in the future, if (when) they make a mistake with the cost of card/cards.
And ofc, if they want to (and they do want to) keep wild a place where people go and enjoy some off-meta shenaningans, they should take care of those cards, because they will be there like forever. I don't know what the "population" of wild is (I don't play the format myself, yet), but I would suggest it's something like 10% of the player base. But, I think it will grow more, if the meta in standard get stale fast again, after an expansion. I believe, that's why they nerfed the infamous NSW, just to keep wild in check, cuz more and more people try to have fun in wild.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
“If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.” ― George Bernard Shaw
EU Legend: S52 (ZooHeal Lock); S76 (Highlander Hunter);
Ok, so a few minutes ago Kibler came out with yet another video on why "Genn and Baku" represent a problem that Blizzard will have to solve. He made a comment about Dean Ayala confirming these cards are on the radar to be "fixed" before the next set drops.
My question is simple: Is it really a "Genn and Baku" problem, or is it just a Baku problem?
Think about it for a second. Many of us greeted the announcement of the most recent set of nerfs . . . until we reached the Flametongue Totem. Shaman has NOTHING right now. There are only a few shamen playing in Legend to 5 over the past 3 days, and they barely lip over 50% win rates. I wish I had a snapshot of the same report before flametongue was nerfed, but I don't recall the oppression of Even Shaman being much of a thing.
What's left? Even Paladin is what it is, but with the Equality nerf we are seeing a better balance between using Genn and using even and odd cards (I'm ignoring the Baku decks for the moment). Even Warlock has a few versions flirting with 60% (though not breaking that threshold), but come on. Can you really with a straight face say that Even Paladin and Even Lock are on the same level of problematicness as Odd Paladin, Odd Warrior (with or without quest), Odd Mage (aggro or control), etc. When is the last time you saw a warrior without Baku in his deck? Until Kibler started playing the Rush warrior last week, I swear to God I don't think I saw one even warrior spell since Witchwood.
Stop talking about Genn and Baku as this inseparable pair. We have this weird idea that upgraded power for 2 is somehow equal (or in some cases even remotely similar) to non-upgraded for one. They aren't. Warlock is probably the only class where you could make a mathematical argument for Genn being the more powerful option, but again, that is not sufficient reason to gut the card.
Just a thought. Take it or leave it. God save the dev team if they don't come up with something viable for shaman in 2019.
Genn may not be oppressive in Standard, but in Wild, Even Warlock and especially Even Shaman are insane.
The reason why Genn and Baku need a change is because even when they exit standard they will ALWAYS be a problem in Wild, because anytime they release ANY card, they could bolster already OP decks.
Well, I'm proceeding from the premise that there is a problem to fix. The reason I wrote this is because I'm afraid they're going to use the "nuke from orbit" approach to nerfing Baku, and I'm suggesting that Genn doesn't need to die alongside him (her?).
The real issue behind Genn/Baku isn't in the immediate "OMFG THE DECKS ARE OP!" mess. fact is, the only deck that is even close to being a possible issue after rotation is Odd Warrior. Thus if that's the problem then waiting will just solve it.
The REAL issue isn't in their power but their design. Any deck that uses either of them will rely on their hero power, especially in the early game. Which means every paladin will be mostly throwing 1/1s, every rogue will be spamming their weapon, every hunter will be spamming face damage, so on. Even if the power level is about on par with any other deck, the fact that you are relying on a hero power you can NEVER LOSE makes them far more stable and reliable than other decks and, thus, more useful.
It's not a power issue. It's a 'fun' issue. Games that play the same way every time get stale fast.
Note that the overall goal blizzard is hoping for isn't the nuke from orbit solution. They could've done that easily months ago otherwise. They want to find a way for the cards to exist while fixing the current issue. The ones that think it'll get nuked feel that there isn't a way and that nuking will be the only real solutioin. IIRC Blizzard is willing to nuke it if they can't find a solution.
So yes, Genn AND Baku is a problem. That Baku is hiding shows part of the problem: Either they have to be so weak as to be useless or they stale everything up once we get used to them.
Genn and Baku aren't the problems. People are who cry that they don't win 100% of matches and blame cards that have little to do with it. Making people think in even and odd is great. A lot of the even and odd decks that are pretty good do not rely on the hero power to win games.
Odd Paladin would be the only exception but it's an aggro deck and scary army of 1 1's really isn't the issue. It's a deck made up of low cost cards and done in a way that won't leave you with an empty hand. Once level up was nerfed out of odd Paladin the hero power isn't the issue anymore. Odd Warrior is frustrating with the quick amount of armor they can get up too but not a game winner.
Problem is Kibbles and his campaign against Genn and Baku and the people who blindly follow spreading the message, like you.
Only lesson is that you can't win every match and there will be decks that yours are weak against. Some decks I play wipe up the odds and evens and there are some decks where I look like a first day player against them.
Warlock basic hero power is already OP and shaman already had a card nerf.
So why we don't nerf warlock basic hero instead of genn and call it a day for genn?
Because Warlock basic hero power has a clear trade of? after rotation warlock will lose almost all his defensive tools specially Bloodreaver Gul'dan and Voidlord.
Warlock wasn't considered a class back in unguru, and started being a little relevant in knights, then re surged in kobolds, so warlock can be weak when it doens't have access to healing.
It might go to a point people will actually play baku warlock as a sort of "healling" (heallling for around 8 hp per game).
even lock is probably (sadly I really like handlock) dead in standard on rotation.
In wild... well there are enough counters to anything there, aviana kun druid was insanely oppressive back then but apart from that I don't think so..
About the future of wild, I thought that reno decks will dominate wild forever, that isn't true cause having the consistency of stronger synergistic cards is more important than 2-3 powerful legendaries in the deck.
Warlock basic hero power is already OP and shaman already had a card nerf.
So why we don't nerf warlock basic hero instead of genn and call it a day for genn?
Because Warlock basic hero power has a clear trade of? after rotation warlock will lose almost all his defensive tools specially Bloodreaver Gul'dan and Voidlord.
Warlock wasn't considered a class back in unguru, and started being a little relevant in knights, then re surged in kobolds, so warlock can be weak when it doens't have access to healing.
It might go to a point people will actually play baku warlock as a sort of "healling" (heallling for around 8 hp per game).
even lock is probably (sadly I really like handlock) dead in standard on rotation.
In wild... well there are enough counters to anything there, aviana kun druid was insanely oppressive back then but apart from that I don't think so..
About the future of wild, I thought that reno decks will dominate wild forever, that isn't true cause having the consistency of stronger synergistic cards is more important than 2-3 powerful legendaries in the deck.
Except is proved that it isn't enough.
When warlock has ways to synergy with his hero power it turns into a monster.
Aggro decks use the refill without care because opponent dies faster.
Combo decks start to need nerfs because they end being nearly rigged due to extra consistency in draw.
Control decks use the consistency to find their tools making control warlock the strongest control archtype just by print half decent sustain.
If every archtype is build around it them we have the exact same issue with warlock basic hero power as we have with genn and baku.
It promote a button pressing playstyle. That to not say that it destroy the fantasy of risk/reward that the class should have.
That is why make it do 3 damage is a good call.
Make warlock really need that amount of healing. It is more fun this way.
Is like i'm said before. Warlock hero power nerf isn't a thing " because genn" is just something that got ignored for a long time despite of being out of line.
Warlock basic hero power is already OP and shaman already had a card nerf.
So why we don't nerf warlock basic hero instead of genn and call it a day for genn?
Because Warlock basic hero power has a clear trade of? after rotation warlock will lose almost all his defensive tools specially Bloodreaver Gul'dan and Voidlord.
Warlock wasn't considered a class back in unguru, and started being a little relevant in knights, then re surged in kobolds, so warlock can be weak when it doens't have access to healing.
It might go to a point people will actually play baku warlock as a sort of "healling" (heallling for around 8 hp per game).
even lock is probably (sadly I really like handlock) dead in standard on rotation.
In wild... well there are enough counters to anything there, aviana kun druid was insanely oppressive back then but apart from that I don't think so..
About the future of wild, I thought that reno decks will dominate wild forever, that isn't true cause having the consistency of stronger synergistic cards is more important than 2-3 powerful legendaries in the deck.
Honestly I think someday we'll need to look into warlock's hero power. It's not so much about RIGHT NOW, but warlock has always been hard to deal with thanks to that insanely reliable feature. It's why they've constantly been given really bad cards just to keep them from getting too strong. And even then, they've been more times than not among the top classes. It's also why zoo never EVER goes away.
Things that create a stable, always-happening event in the meta aren't good things in card games. Our decks are supposed to be more like well made plans that start to fall apart the second we pick up the first card. You shouldn't be going "I get this card, I win/I didn't get it, I lose" like Keleseth decks do. You aren't supposed to ALWAYS know what the next 3-5 turns will go like Genn/Baku decks go. Your deck is supposed to have a plan and it's supposed to be a strong plan, but it should be fragile and easy to not work quite right. But it the deck should still 'work' in some fashion even still.
Hero powers should be things you should not WANT to do. If your deck works perfectly, you should have little use for the effects, except when you have free mana later on. It's just there when your deck is failing so you aren't AS bad off. 1 damage when you don't have a 3 damage+freeze frost bolt. a 1/1 when you'd rather have a 3/2 with an ability. a 1/2 weapon when you wish you had 2 damage into 1 extra mana into a -3 to the next spell into 4 damage to an enemy into a 10/10 minion.
So yes, Warlock's hero power feels a lot like Genn and Baku. That's a mark against the cards AND the hero power, not a defense.
Genn and Baku aren't the problems. People are who cry that they don't win 100% of matches and blame cards that have little to do with it. Making people think in even and odd is great. A lot of the even and odd decks that are pretty good do not rely on the hero power to win games.
Odd Paladin would be the only exception but it's an aggro deck and scary army of 1 1's really isn't the issue. It's a deck made up of low cost cards and done in a way that won't leave you with an empty hand. Once level up was nerfed out of odd Paladin the hero power isn't the issue anymore. Odd Warrior is frustrating with the quick amount of armor they can get up too but not a game winner.
Problem is Kibbles and his campaign against Genn and Baku and the people who blindly follow spreading the message, like you.
Only lesson is that you can't win every match and there will be decks that yours are weak against. Some decks I play wipe up the odds and evens and there are some decks where I look like a first day player against them.
There are a ton of threads on this already, why are you beating a dead horse. Genn and Baku are a big problem in hearthstone and this has already been established, even by the devs. They are boring to play agaisnt, they limit design space and they constantly have to be taken into account when creating new cards. Several classic cards have been nerfed just because of these pos cards. And we have to endure this for another year? Nah, these need to be hofed already. The only people who object to this are the people who only play odd paladin and odd mage and just want easy wins.
If you don't think that 1 mana hero power is a problem, just go wild and play few games and see how many even shamans (that just don't care about flametongue at all) there are. I guess you are the standard player that don't care about wild, but you need to see how oppressive it can be. It's much worse than any odd deck and really even worse than Barnes (which is really hard to compete with in terms of frustration).
Warlock basic hero power is already OP and shaman already had a card nerf.
So why we don't nerf warlock basic hero instead of genn and call it a day for genn?
Because Warlock basic hero power has a clear trade of? after rotation warlock will lose almost all his defensive tools specially Bloodreaver Gul'dan and Voidlord.
Warlock wasn't considered a class back in unguru, and started being a little relevant in knights, then re surged in kobolds, so warlock can be weak when it doens't have access to healing.
It might go to a point people will actually play baku warlock as a sort of "healling" (heallling for around 8 hp per game).
even lock is probably (sadly I really like handlock) dead in standard on rotation.
In wild... well there are enough counters to anything there, aviana kun druid was insanely oppressive back then but apart from that I don't think so..
About the future of wild, I thought that reno decks will dominate wild forever, that isn't true cause having the consistency of stronger synergistic cards is more important than 2-3 powerful legendaries in the deck.
Honestly I think someday we'll need to look into warlock's hero power. It's not so much about RIGHT NOW, but warlock has always been hard to deal with thanks to that insanely reliable feature. It's why they've constantly been given really bad cards just to keep them from getting too strong. And even then, they've been more times than not among the top classes. It's also why zoo never EVER goes away.
Things that create a stable, always-happening event in the meta aren't good things in card games. Our decks are supposed to be more like well made plans that start to fall apart the second we pick up the first card. You shouldn't be going "I get this card, I win/I didn't get it, I lose" like Keleseth decks do. You aren't supposed to ALWAYS know what the next 3-5 turns will go like Genn/Baku decks go. Your deck is supposed to have a plan and it's supposed to be a strong plan, but it should be fragile and easy to not work quite right. But it the deck should still 'work' in some fashion even still.
Hero powers should be things you should not WANT to do. If your deck works perfectly, you should have little use for the effects, except when you have free mana later on. It's just there when your deck is failing so you aren't AS bad off. 1 damage when you don't have a 3 damage+freeze frost bolt. a 1/1 when you'd rather have a 3/2 with an ability. a 1/2 weapon when you wish you had 2 damage into 1 extra mana into a -3 to the next spell into 4 damage to an enemy into a 10/10 minion.
So yes, Warlock's hero power feels a lot like Genn and Baku. That's a mark against the cards AND the hero power, not a defense.
I honestly have always thought that Warlock pays a little too few Health for their Hero Power. A Warlock can theoretically draw 15 cards and realistically 7-10 cards easily just by using their Hero Power alone. I would nerf the Hero Power to cost 3 Health.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Click here to visit my Timestream Tracking Finalist Year of the Dragon in collaboration with Demonxz95
OP, you do realize that in order to nerf Wild Even Shaman the class had to be gutted in both formats by nerfing the worst offender in its early game arsenal? Yeah, they could have nerfed e.g. Thing from Below instead but would it have made such a difference? The class is dead anyway unless Team5 come up with some really good support OR a complete overhaul. Historically, Shaman's biggest issues have always been a) the Overload keyword, as finding the right balance seems to be nearly impossible (most of the time it's been a liability and for a short time it was utterly broken) and b) its jack-of-all-trades nature. Have you ever wondered why Shaman didn't receive a powerful 1-drop for two full years? Yeah, Flametongue Totem was the reason.
Regarding Genn and Baku, it's more of a entertainment than balance factor. I think people just don't like the prospect of seeing the same old Odd Paladin/Rogue/Warrior or Even Paladin/Shaman playstyle for another year. My idea is that if decks are created so that you rely heavily on your upgraded hero power for the first turns you might as well play with a handicap => Genn and Baku (their stats + cost could be changed) always show up in the opening hand, similar to the UNG quests. Et voilà, Paladin or Rogue won't be likely to have an overwhelmingly powerful early game anymore.
Ok, so a few minutes ago Kibler came out with yet another video on why "Genn and Baku" represent a problem that Blizzard will have to solve. He made a comment about Dean Ayala confirming these cards are on the radar to be "fixed" before the next set drops.
My question is simple: Is it really a "Genn and Baku" problem, or is it just a Baku problem?
Think about it for a second. Many of us greeted the announcement of the most recent set of nerfs . . . until we reached the Flametongue Totem. Shaman has NOTHING right now. There are only a few shamen playing in Legend to 5 over the past 3 days, and they barely lip over 50% win rates. I wish I had a snapshot of the same report before flametongue was nerfed, but I don't recall the oppression of Even Shaman being much of a thing.
What's left? Even Paladin is what it is, but with the Equality nerf we are seeing a better balance between using Genn and using even and odd cards (I'm ignoring the Baku decks for the moment). Even Warlock has a few versions flirting with 60% (though not breaking that threshold), but come on. Can you really with a straight face say that Even Paladin and Even Lock are on the same level of problematicness as Odd Paladin, Odd Warrior (with or without quest), Odd Mage (aggro or control), etc. When is the last time you saw a warrior without Baku in his deck? Until Kibler started playing the Rush warrior last week, I swear to God I don't think I saw one even warrior spell since Witchwood.
Stop talking about Genn and Baku as this inseparable pair. We have this weird idea that upgraded power for 2 is somehow equal (or in some cases even remotely similar) to non-upgraded for one. They aren't. Warlock is probably the only class where you could make a mathematical argument for Genn being the more powerful option, but again, that is not sufficient reason to gut the card.
Just a thought. Take it or leave it. God save the dev team if they don't come up with something viable for shaman in 2019.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Not a problem . Just a meta
Well, I'm proceeding from the premise that there is a problem to fix. The reason I wrote this is because I'm afraid they're going to use the "nuke from orbit" approach to nerfing Baku, and I'm suggesting that Genn doesn't need to die alongside him (her?).
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Genn may not be oppressive in Standard, but in Wild, Even Warlock and especially Even Shaman are insane.
The reason why Genn and Baku need a change is because even when they exit standard they will ALWAYS be a problem in Wild, because anytime they release ANY card, they could bolster already OP decks.
I think both of them are a problem, which is - limiting the designing space they have for every new card. Maybe Genn is not a problem now, but it can become, in the future, if (when) they make a mistake with the cost of card/cards.
And ofc, if they want to (and they do want to) keep wild a place where people go and enjoy some off-meta shenaningans, they should take care of those cards, because they will be there like forever. I don't know what the "population" of wild is (I don't play the format myself, yet), but I would suggest it's something like 10% of the player base. But, I think it will grow more, if the meta in standard get stale fast again, after an expansion. I believe, that's why they nerfed the infamous NSW, just to keep wild in check, cuz more and more people try to have fun in wild.
“If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchange these apples then you and I will still each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange these ideas, then each of us will have two ideas.” ― George Bernard Shaw
EU Legend: S52 (ZooHeal Lock); S76 (Highlander Hunter);
^ This. OP, did you forget Wild exists or what?
The real issue behind Genn/Baku isn't in the immediate "OMFG THE DECKS ARE OP!" mess. fact is, the only deck that is even close to being a possible issue after rotation is Odd Warrior. Thus if that's the problem then waiting will just solve it.
The REAL issue isn't in their power but their design. Any deck that uses either of them will rely on their hero power, especially in the early game. Which means every paladin will be mostly throwing 1/1s, every rogue will be spamming their weapon, every hunter will be spamming face damage, so on. Even if the power level is about on par with any other deck, the fact that you are relying on a hero power you can NEVER LOSE makes them far more stable and reliable than other decks and, thus, more useful.
It's not a power issue. It's a 'fun' issue. Games that play the same way every time get stale fast.
Note that the overall goal blizzard is hoping for isn't the nuke from orbit solution. They could've done that easily months ago otherwise. They want to find a way for the cards to exist while fixing the current issue. The ones that think it'll get nuked feel that there isn't a way and that nuking will be the only real solutioin. IIRC Blizzard is willing to nuke it if they can't find a solution.
So yes, Genn AND Baku is a problem. That Baku is hiding shows part of the problem: Either they have to be so weak as to be useless or they stale everything up once we get used to them.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
Genn and Baku aren't the problems. People are who cry that they don't win 100% of matches and blame cards that have little to do with it. Making people think in even and odd is great. A lot of the even and odd decks that are pretty good do not rely on the hero power to win games.
Odd Paladin would be the only exception but it's an aggro deck and scary army of 1 1's really isn't the issue. It's a deck made up of low cost cards and done in a way that won't leave you with an empty hand. Once level up was nerfed out of odd Paladin the hero power isn't the issue anymore.
Odd Warrior is frustrating with the quick amount of armor they can get up too but not a game winner.
Problem is Kibbles and his campaign against Genn and Baku and the people who blindly follow spreading the message, like you.
Only lesson is that you can't win every match and there will be decks that yours are weak against. Some decks I play wipe up the odds and evens and there are some decks where I look like a first day player against them.
Guys not want to pop the bubble but....
Warlock basic hero power is already OP and shaman already had a card nerf.
So why we don't nerf warlock basic hero instead of genn and call it a day for genn?
Because Warlock basic hero power has a clear trade of? after rotation warlock will lose almost all his defensive tools specially Bloodreaver Gul'dan and Voidlord.
Warlock wasn't considered a class back in unguru, and started being a little relevant in knights, then re surged in kobolds, so warlock can be weak when it doens't have access to healing.
It might go to a point people will actually play baku warlock as a sort of "healling" (heallling for around 8 hp per game).
even lock is probably (sadly I really like handlock) dead in standard on rotation.
In wild... well there are enough counters to anything there, aviana kun druid was insanely oppressive back then but apart from that I don't think so..
About the future of wild, I thought that reno decks will dominate wild forever, that isn't true cause having the consistency of stronger synergistic cards is more important than 2-3 powerful legendaries in the deck.
Except is proved that it isn't enough.
When warlock has ways to synergy with his hero power it turns into a monster.
Aggro decks use the refill without care because opponent dies faster.
Combo decks start to need nerfs because they end being nearly rigged due to extra consistency in draw.
Control decks use the consistency to find their tools making control warlock the strongest control archtype just by print half decent sustain.
If every archtype is build around it them we have the exact same issue with warlock basic hero power as we have with genn and baku.
It promote a button pressing playstyle. That to not say that it destroy the fantasy of risk/reward that the class should have.
That is why make it do 3 damage is a good call.
Make warlock really need that amount of healing. It is more fun this way.
Is like i'm said before. Warlock hero power nerf isn't a thing " because genn" is just something that got ignored for a long time despite of being out of line.
Honestly I think someday we'll need to look into warlock's hero power. It's not so much about RIGHT NOW, but warlock has always been hard to deal with thanks to that insanely reliable feature. It's why they've constantly been given really bad cards just to keep them from getting too strong. And even then, they've been more times than not among the top classes. It's also why zoo never EVER goes away.
Things that create a stable, always-happening event in the meta aren't good things in card games. Our decks are supposed to be more like well made plans that start to fall apart the second we pick up the first card. You shouldn't be going "I get this card, I win/I didn't get it, I lose" like Keleseth decks do. You aren't supposed to ALWAYS know what the next 3-5 turns will go like Genn/Baku decks go. Your deck is supposed to have a plan and it's supposed to be a strong plan, but it should be fragile and easy to not work quite right. But it the deck should still 'work' in some fashion even still.
Hero powers should be things you should not WANT to do. If your deck works perfectly, you should have little use for the effects, except when you have free mana later on. It's just there when your deck is failing so you aren't AS bad off. 1 damage when you don't have a 3 damage+freeze frost bolt. a 1/1 when you'd rather have a 3/2 with an ability. a 1/2 weapon when you wish you had 2 damage into 1 extra mana into a -3 to the next spell into 4 damage to an enemy into a 10/10 minion.
So yes, Warlock's hero power feels a lot like Genn and Baku. That's a mark against the cards AND the hero power, not a defense.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
I approve of this message.
There are a ton of threads on this already, why are you beating a dead horse. Genn and Baku are a big problem in hearthstone and this has already been established, even by the devs. They are boring to play agaisnt, they limit design space and they constantly have to be taken into account when creating new cards. Several classic cards have been nerfed just because of these pos cards. And we have to endure this for another year? Nah, these need to be hofed already. The only people who object to this are the people who only play odd paladin and odd mage and just want easy wins.
If you don't think that 1 mana hero power is a problem, just go wild and play few games and see how many even shamans (that just don't care about flametongue at all) there are. I guess you are the standard player that don't care about wild, but you need to see how oppressive it can be. It's much worse than any odd deck and really even worse than Barnes (which is really hard to compete with in terms of frustration).
Mindbreaker, Saboteur, Sideshow Spelleater Kappa
The last two cards in wild only of course.
edit: not even sure if S.S. works like I think it does : /
"There is no spoon"
Yes, check wild, you get rushed down by a rogue in 3-4 turns. Its pirate warrior all over again.
It makes decks ultra aggro or ultra control REALLY difficult to beat if you dont run an specific deck built against it.
I honestly have always thought that Warlock pays a little too few Health for their Hero Power. A Warlock can theoretically draw 15 cards and realistically 7-10 cards easily just by using their Hero Power alone. I would nerf the Hero Power to cost 3 Health.
Click here to visit my Timestream Tracking Finalist Year of the Dragon in collaboration with Demonxz95
Class Creation Finalist: The Astromancer
Best cards vote by community:
OP, you do realize that in order to nerf Wild Even Shaman the class had to be gutted in both formats by nerfing the worst offender in its early game arsenal? Yeah, they could have nerfed e.g. Thing from Below instead but would it have made such a difference? The class is dead anyway unless Team5 come up with some really good support OR a complete overhaul. Historically, Shaman's biggest issues have always been a) the Overload keyword, as finding the right balance seems to be nearly impossible (most of the time it's been a liability and for a short time it was utterly broken) and b) its jack-of-all-trades nature. Have you ever wondered why Shaman didn't receive a powerful 1-drop for two full years? Yeah, Flametongue Totem was the reason.
Regarding Genn and Baku, it's more of a entertainment than balance factor. I think people just don't like the prospect of seeing the same old Odd Paladin/Rogue/Warrior or Even Paladin/Shaman playstyle for another year. My idea is that if decks are created so that you rely heavily on your upgraded hero power for the first turns you might as well play with a handicap => Genn and Baku (their stats + cost could be changed) always show up in the opening hand, similar to the UNG quests. Et voilà, Paladin or Rogue won't be likely to have an overwhelmingly powerful early game anymore.
Baku & Genn limits card design huh?
So nerf them limiting deck builing: "Start of Game: If your deck has only odd/even-Cost cards AND NO DUPLICATES, upgrade/discount your Hero Power."