I often use the term fanboy (sheeple will also do) to denote the uncritical attitude towards anything Blizzard, a.k.a. nothing card designers come up with is wrong. If you challenge beloved developers, you are either:
Salty (move to the salt thread).
Don't know what you are talking about. Blizzard is always right.
conspiracy theorist.
Loyalism on pwn is a serious problem for a thorough discussion. Also very nasty: you argue at length, the fanboy (doesn't read what you write) picks out a line mock you in turn.
End to end willful ignorance from the post to the signature. Fanboys exist. But, it's not bad design when you come up against something that counters you. That's called balance. So when you're spinning about hurling vitriol without substance, expect to be treated with deserved skepticism. That you think you should always be able to win, every time, just on skill means you don't understand design on these kinds of games at a minimum. Your argument would have merit in chess. Not so much in HS.
Do I have anything to add to this quintessential fanboys respons? I don't think so. I rest my case.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
We make our world significant through the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.
"Because I'm a God! *MUAHAHAHAHAHA*" Seriously, people on the Internet are the smartest people our planet has to offer. They possess some celestial knowledge can judge what's objectively correct or wrong.
As for the topic, I think it's in the human nature to start arguing if they disagree with something. If you agree, (in 90% of the cases) you just nod and silently pass by.
I often use the term fanboy (sheeple will also do) to denote the uncritical attitude towards anything Blizzard, a.k.a. nothing card designers come up with is wrong. If you challenge beloved developers, you are either:
Salty (move to the salt thread).
Don't know what you are talking about. Blizzard is always right.
conspiracy theorist.
Loyalism on pwn is a serious problem for a thorough discussion. Also very nasty: you argue at length, the fanboy (doesn't read what you write) picks out a line mock you in turn.
End to end willful ignorance from the post to the signature. Fanboys exist. But, it's not bad design when you come up against something that counters you. That's called balance. So when you're spinning about hurling vitriol without substance, expect to be treated with deserved skepticism. That you think you should always be able to win, every time, just on skill means you don't understand design on these kinds of games at a minimum. Your argument would have merit in chess. Not so much in HS.
Do I have anything to add to this quintessential fanboys respons? I don't think so. I rest my case.
I have a slightly different take on this issue, if anyone cares to read.
In 1994, I was 9 years old. My parents had just divorced, and my father bought me a PC (one of those Gateway 128 MB of RAM monsters) because he had to work late most days and I didn't have many friends in a new neighborhood. I picked up this weird game called "Warcraft: Orcs and Humans". Had a lot of fun with it over that first summer in a new spot.
The next year, I tried out the sequel "Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness" and was entranced with the exquisite graphics (oh how times have changed) and interesting story. Though Magic: the Gathering was taking some time away from the computer, I still must have played thru the campaign 100 times.
In 1996, I traveled deep within the catacombs under (can't remember the damn town name) to vanquish the evil lord Diablo.
In 1998, I discovered the first iteration of what is probably the best competitive game ever published in Starcraft. Though it took Brood War to get this game to eSports fame, the concept of balancing three unique races was a wild departure from the Warcraft franchise to that point, and for the first time, I started making connections with people in real life through the games I was playing.
In 2000, Diablo II consumed months of my free time.
In 2003, I returned to the lore and solid game play of Warcraft 3.
In 2004, my second year of college, World of Warcraft allowed me to meet my wife and several of the closest friends I have today. WoW would continue to play a major part of my life for nearly 10 years thereafter.
In 2010, Starcraft II launched as an imperfect, but solid successor to the legend of Brood War. Say what you will about this game compared to its predecessor, Starcraft II started the boulder rolling on a lot of the eSports infrastructure in America and Europe. It's difficult to say where the scene of any current game would be without those early Wings of Liberty years.
And then we arrive at Hearthstone, a game that has not only held my solid attention and effort since Beta, but brought back a wonderful feeling of nostalgia from the WoW and Magic the Gathering experiences.
I don't play Overwatch, I skipped Diablo 3, and Heroes of the Storm always struck me as inferior to LoL and DotA. But Blizzard has given half a lifetime of memories, experience, and socializing.
I freely admit that Blizzard has made some huge missteps in the past, and that all the nostalgia in the world doesn't address whether a card is balanced or not. But there are two things I'd like to point out in light of all of the above . . .
1. "Fanboy" will never be an insult when it comes to Blizzard
2. I do tend to give them the benefit of the doubt. Hasn't steered me wrong very often in the past 25 years.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Calling for nerfs is simply totally useless. In a game like Hearthstone, all the stats are available to the staff. If one decks suddenly become too popular, they can quickly analyse the stats, and decide if a card deserve a nerf or not. I can tell you that for Rumble, once again, stats are probably the only reason they toned it down. They don't care about people comments. They simply saw that not enough people were playing it (particularly since they could compare the likely low popularity of Rumble V.S. the other adventures). Sure enough, they likely glance these forums every now and then, but they likely base 99.8% of what they do on their stats alone.
That being said, it does make reading forums so much fun though. Hope people will continue to do so!
Actually you frustrate yourself because you can't take opinions without feeling frustrated.
People are free to think what they want, what's your problem? You believe people have to share your opinion?
And yeah people is wrong sometimes, everyone is, and being right is also common, just grow up dude, don't vent off in a forum just because you can't handle the real issue.
I only ever see people criticizing or shiting on blizzard lately so I don't know where these supposed Fanboys are but it would be nice to actually see one once or twice.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hi i'm Tyler and I play hearthstone and watch anime.
Sometimes i make cards. I'd like to do that for a career one day if ever possible.
Calling for nerfs is simply totally useless. In a game like Hearthstone, all the stats are available to the staff. If one decks suddenly become too popular, they can quickly analyse the stats, and decide if a card deserve a nerf or not. I can tell you that for Rumble, once again, stats are probably the only reason they toned it down. They don't care about people comments. They simply saw that not enough people were playing it (particularly since they could compare the likely low popularity of Rumble V.S. the other adventures). Sure enough, they likely glance these forums every now and then, but they likely base 99.8% of what they do on their stats alone.
That being said, it does make reading forums so much fun though. Hope people will continue to do so!
This is actually not true according to our own history.
When Mean Streets came out, the public fussed about pirate warrior from day 1. However, according to Blizzard, the stats showed that everything was fine. No deck was dominate or even overplayed. Pirate decks even sported a below 50% win rate, so seeing it meant you should win more than you lose. LOTS of different decks were actually being played then. So Blizzard calmly sat and waited for the rage to die down and for the players to enjoy the meta.
That didn't happen. We got louder, angrier, and more direct. After 2 months, Blizzard realized the problem:
The data they had didn't take into account the fact that pirate warrior games were determined by turn 2: either you had a way to wipe out the early board and win or you didn't and you lost. The players HATED it. Meanwhile, a lot of those different decks used the same key cards: every aggro deck had Patches and pirates, every control deck had Reno, everyone else used Jade. Thus it 'felt' like the same thing every time even if those decks played differently.
The data didn't tell them a thing about that. Only public sentiment clued them in. They eventually added in nerfs.
This actually happened again for Un'Goro. Their data said that quest rogue was fine. The public screamed it was over powered. The pros gave a better picture: The deck was polarizing, killing every control deck and dying to every aggro deck, which felt horrible. Blizzard was faster to respond and nerfed it.
The nerfs after Frozen Throne also couldn't have been data based simply because they happened too soon for any meaningful data to be pulled (no, a week during the most volatile part of a high impact expansion does not good data make). They went by their own testing crew for that one (which is also why Hex was nerfed even though both the data AND the public had no problem with it).
There's many other stories, such as the apology due to the outcry over Purify, the reason why Leeroy was nerfed, and so on. The point is, "Big Mean Company doesn't listen to us." flies in the face of 5 years that we've had with the game. Team 5 is nowhere as talkative or responsive as other companies, or, say, the Overwatch crew, but we've seen results of public sentiment. It's hard to see if you've spent all of your time here since this isn't where any of that is happening. Blizzard doesn't come here. They go to Reddit, or their own forums. They go to Twitter or Facebook. They also watch some streamer channels and talk to players and casters in their live events. Thus if you want to actually be heard, you are best to go to one of those venues. This place is for talking among ourselves.
Do I have anything to add to this quintessential fanboys respons? I don't think so. I rest my case.
If the irony were any thicker, I could spread it on toast. You might want to look at some things called self-awareness and situational awareness. You've just demonstrated a wild lack of both.
So you're complaining that people don't automatically stay quiet and accept that your view is the only one that makes sense?
You're also assuming that when certain parts of the community demands a nerf that their opinion is correct and that it would be good for the game if that niche of players was listened and nerfed that card. For example, there are some players that absolutely loathe otk and combo decks, even ones that aren't consistent ladder decks. And yet players like Hysteria, Towellie, KinkyHS, DaneHS, and many others enjoy many types of them (as do their viewers). If T5 caved to the part of the playerbase whining over OTKs & combos in general they'd be catering to just one niche of the community. Is that a fair and balanced way to interact with your customers?
Another thing, you ALWAYS get complaints over the top decks for every meta. If not, for power then always for them simply being more consistent than anything below them (causing some players to feel the meta is stale, and forgetting that eventually metas need to settle and things have to be on top, things in the middle, and things on the bottom of the totem pole). Some players demand nerfs not because something is broken, but merely because they are bored. Surely, some here would view me as one of your "Blizzard Fanboys" for opposing nerfs spawned by boredom, but I for one adamantly believe you should never toss nerfs out on a whim and kill decks/cards because some players are bored. The much better path is to just produce more content and/or produce it more often.
TLDR: You think your subjective opinion is the only one that should matter, but it isn't. Nor is your opinion a perfect solution.
Do I have anything to add to this quintessential fanboys respons? I don't think so. I rest my case.
If the irony were any thicker, I could spread it on toast. You might want to look at some things called self-awareness and situational awareness. You've just demonstrated a wild lack of both.
Thank you for your fanboy supremacy.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
We make our world significant through the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.
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Do I have anything to add to this quintessential fanboys respons? I don't think so. I rest my case.
We make our world significant through the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.
"Because I'm a God! *MUAHAHAHAHAHA*" Seriously, people on the Internet are the smartest people our planet has to offer. They possess some celestial knowledge can judge what's objectively correct or wrong.
As for the topic, I think it's in the human nature to start arguing if they disagree with something. If you agree, (in 90% of the cases) you just nod and silently pass by.
Oh god the level of irony is through the roof...
please tell me ur joking and actually don't have -3 iq
3.2.1 kill shot
The fanboys are fine. It’s your Shaman deck, bro
I have a slightly different take on this issue, if anyone cares to read.
In 1994, I was 9 years old. My parents had just divorced, and my father bought me a PC (one of those Gateway 128 MB of RAM monsters) because he had to work late most days and I didn't have many friends in a new neighborhood. I picked up this weird game called "Warcraft: Orcs and Humans". Had a lot of fun with it over that first summer in a new spot.
The next year, I tried out the sequel "Warcraft II: Tides of Darkness" and was entranced with the exquisite graphics (oh how times have changed) and interesting story. Though Magic: the Gathering was taking some time away from the computer, I still must have played thru the campaign 100 times.
In 1996, I traveled deep within the catacombs under (can't remember the damn town name) to vanquish the evil lord Diablo.
In 1998, I discovered the first iteration of what is probably the best competitive game ever published in Starcraft. Though it took Brood War to get this game to eSports fame, the concept of balancing three unique races was a wild departure from the Warcraft franchise to that point, and for the first time, I started making connections with people in real life through the games I was playing.
In 2000, Diablo II consumed months of my free time.
In 2003, I returned to the lore and solid game play of Warcraft 3.
In 2004, my second year of college, World of Warcraft allowed me to meet my wife and several of the closest friends I have today. WoW would continue to play a major part of my life for nearly 10 years thereafter.
In 2010, Starcraft II launched as an imperfect, but solid successor to the legend of Brood War. Say what you will about this game compared to its predecessor, Starcraft II started the boulder rolling on a lot of the eSports infrastructure in America and Europe. It's difficult to say where the scene of any current game would be without those early Wings of Liberty years.
And then we arrive at Hearthstone, a game that has not only held my solid attention and effort since Beta, but brought back a wonderful feeling of nostalgia from the WoW and Magic the Gathering experiences.
I don't play Overwatch, I skipped Diablo 3, and Heroes of the Storm always struck me as inferior to LoL and DotA. But Blizzard has given half a lifetime of memories, experience, and socializing.
I freely admit that Blizzard has made some huge missteps in the past, and that all the nostalgia in the world doesn't address whether a card is balanced or not. But there are two things I'd like to point out in light of all of the above . . .
1. "Fanboy" will never be an insult when it comes to Blizzard
2. I do tend to give them the benefit of the doubt. Hasn't steered me wrong very often in the past 25 years.
We cool?
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Calling for nerfs is simply totally useless. In a game like Hearthstone, all the stats are available to the staff. If one decks suddenly become too popular, they can quickly analyse the stats, and decide if a card deserve a nerf or not. I can tell you that for Rumble, once again, stats are probably the only reason they toned it down. They don't care about people comments. They simply saw that not enough people were playing it (particularly since they could compare the likely low popularity of Rumble V.S. the other adventures). Sure enough, they likely glance these forums every now and then, but they likely base 99.8% of what they do on their stats alone.
That being said, it does make reading forums so much fun though. Hope people will continue to do so!
Its less fanboying and more just disagreeing. Everyone likes to call dissenters names because it makes them feel superior. Nothing more to it.
Unpopular opinion: Rogue is OP
Actually you frustrate yourself because you can't take opinions without feeling frustrated.
People are free to think what they want, what's your problem? You believe people have to share your opinion?
And yeah people is wrong sometimes, everyone is, and being right is also common, just grow up dude, don't vent off in a forum just because you can't handle the real issue.
Fight the real enemy.
Free to try and find a game, dealing cards for sorrow, cards for pain.
I only ever see people criticizing or shiting on blizzard lately so I don't know where these supposed Fanboys are but it would be nice to actually see one once or twice.
Hi i'm Tyler and I play hearthstone and watch anime.
Sometimes i make cards. I'd like to do that for a career one day if ever possible.
This is actually not true according to our own history.
When Mean Streets came out, the public fussed about pirate warrior from day 1. However, according to Blizzard, the stats showed that everything was fine. No deck was dominate or even overplayed. Pirate decks even sported a below 50% win rate, so seeing it meant you should win more than you lose. LOTS of different decks were actually being played then. So Blizzard calmly sat and waited for the rage to die down and for the players to enjoy the meta.
That didn't happen. We got louder, angrier, and more direct. After 2 months, Blizzard realized the problem:
The data they had didn't take into account the fact that pirate warrior games were determined by turn 2: either you had a way to wipe out the early board and win or you didn't and you lost. The players HATED it. Meanwhile, a lot of those different decks used the same key cards: every aggro deck had Patches and pirates, every control deck had Reno, everyone else used Jade. Thus it 'felt' like the same thing every time even if those decks played differently.
The data didn't tell them a thing about that. Only public sentiment clued them in. They eventually added in nerfs.
This actually happened again for Un'Goro. Their data said that quest rogue was fine. The public screamed it was over powered. The pros gave a better picture: The deck was polarizing, killing every control deck and dying to every aggro deck, which felt horrible. Blizzard was faster to respond and nerfed it.
The nerfs after Frozen Throne also couldn't have been data based simply because they happened too soon for any meaningful data to be pulled (no, a week during the most volatile part of a high impact expansion does not good data make). They went by their own testing crew for that one (which is also why Hex was nerfed even though both the data AND the public had no problem with it).
There's many other stories, such as the apology due to the outcry over Purify, the reason why Leeroy was nerfed, and so on. The point is, "Big Mean Company doesn't listen to us." flies in the face of 5 years that we've had with the game. Team 5 is nowhere as talkative or responsive as other companies, or, say, the Overwatch crew, but we've seen results of public sentiment. It's hard to see if you've spent all of your time here since this isn't where any of that is happening. Blizzard doesn't come here. They go to Reddit, or their own forums. They go to Twitter or Facebook. They also watch some streamer channels and talk to players and casters in their live events. Thus if you want to actually be heard, you are best to go to one of those venues. This place is for talking among ourselves.
One does not simply walk into Mordor,
unless they want to be the best they can be.
If the irony were any thicker, I could spread it on toast. You might want to look at some things called self-awareness and situational awareness. You've just demonstrated a wild lack of both.
A never-Legend Dad who keeps making rank 2 or 1, but then sliding.
Rumbling around Gurubashi Arena. Shirvallah is the best loa. Go Tigers!
So you're complaining that people don't automatically stay quiet and accept that your view is the only one that makes sense?
You're also assuming that when certain parts of the community demands a nerf that their opinion is correct and that it would be good for the game if that niche of players was listened and nerfed that card. For example, there are some players that absolutely loathe otk and combo decks, even ones that aren't consistent ladder decks. And yet players like Hysteria, Towellie, KinkyHS, DaneHS, and many others enjoy many types of them (as do their viewers). If T5 caved to the part of the playerbase whining over OTKs & combos in general they'd be catering to just one niche of the community. Is that a fair and balanced way to interact with your customers?
Another thing, you ALWAYS get complaints over the top decks for every meta. If not, for power then always for them simply being more consistent than anything below them (causing some players to feel the meta is stale, and forgetting that eventually metas need to settle and things have to be on top, things in the middle, and things on the bottom of the totem pole). Some players demand nerfs not because something is broken, but merely because they are bored. Surely, some here would view me as one of your "Blizzard Fanboys" for opposing nerfs spawned by boredom, but I for one adamantly believe you should never toss nerfs out on a whim and kill decks/cards because some players are bored. The much better path is to just produce more content and/or produce it more often.
TLDR: You think your subjective opinion is the only one that should matter, but it isn't. Nor is your opinion a perfect solution.
Thank you for your fanboy supremacy.
We make our world significant through the courage of our questions and the depth of our answers.