It's time to bring back Design Duels. For those who have not seen any of the previous threads, these Design Duels are always a 1v1 design competition between two anonymous players. The two competitors don't even know each other. For those who like to compete in one of these, simply send me a PM and I will set you up for a match. Lately I have been trying to do 2 duels at the same time, one New Comer Design Duel (for those who have not done a design duel before) and a Veteran Design Duel. Anyone entering duels for the first time is automatically a New Comer, but once you've completed your first New Comer match you're bumped into veteran status. If you are interested in joining a duel, just send me a PM and I will add you to the queue. Now for New Comer Design Duel #10:
Ooh, nice theme! I think it's interesting that both cards went with something synnergized with hand buffs rather than providing them like their fellow Grimy Goons tri-class cards. Neither good nor bad, just interesting.
Both cards are reasonably balanced and themed, so I have to give this one to the Brawler's Club simply because I think it's better worded. "Buffs" are not a thing in Hearthstone. That's not wording that exists or that is even intuitive for people who aren't in the gaming community already. I just think Entry 1 is more intelligible.
This was a pretty tough call for me. I chose Hemet's Toothpick in the end because it functions as a motivator to play lightly-buffed minions instead of trying to save powerhouse plays for late game, which I think is a big mistake a lot of Goons players make (I'm pretty low rank myself so who am I to judge, but still). I also think Brawler's Club is at a weird spot where it can't be made any cheaper or any more powerful, because either direction would break it, but it's just kind of weak. You need a minimum of 3 buffed cards in your hand to make it worth playing for the mana cost, which means more card hoarding (see: Fiery War Axe, Stormforged Axe). I just think Club would slow players down more than anything, unless you happen to score a huge hand of minions and buff all of them right before drawing it.
I haven't seen this before, but its really cool. As far the the theme, its cool, though always hard to actually make a weapon that all 3 of these classes could/would use. Hunters used to be able to use any number of melee weapons, but very very rarely actually used them as anything other than sources of combat stats, and Paladins never had access to any sort of ranged weapons. In HS hunter's have solely been given ranged weapons, similar to how they now function in WoW. This means making a weapon the really fits all 3 of these classes is very difficult, and so staying on theme for the guild becomes more important.
Brawler's Club is interesting. I don't exactly see the Grimy Goons as Brawler's, but its not completely unfitting to think an Ogre and his hooligans would be running around with a few blunt objects. I like the idea of the card, though I think its very very dangerous, especially for Paladins. Hunters and Warriors have a harder time buffing multiple minions in hand, but Paladin can really go wild, and playing this as a 3/4, 4/5 or 5/6 weapon doesn't seem that unreasonable for them, which is a ton of value. In the other two classes I think its merely a fine weapon, maybe even a bit weak.
Hemet's Toothpick I have a lot more issues with. Hemet Nessingwary isn't a member or even associate of the Grimy Goons, and he's also not really that well represented in the game. Also, I'm assuming this is a dagger of some sort, seeing as how its used for picking teeth, and that isn't a weapon often used by any of these classes. The effect isn't worded spectacularly, as Asylum mentioned, but I don't think that's a major factor here. The wording could be changed, and as Blizzard has never printed a card that tries to interact with these "buffed" minions they may have chosen that wording. Buffing is a term used in MMOs, and many other video and table top games, not strictly card gaming. That being said, I don't like this card. Its an ineffective "weapon", and more of a value/card draw engine that requires a lot of work. Again, Paladin is most able to gain from this card, and regrettably equipping this and then wanting to override it with a different weapon feels super bad, something all of these classes could likely have to do.
With all that laid out, I vote for Brawler's Club. I think it suits the Grimy Goons better on the whole and would generate a more visceral and enjoyable experience when it worked. Neither entry is perfect, but both have merit and upsides. Great work both of you.
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To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the women.
These were really good! In the end I went with the Toothpick. I noticed that Goons require a lot of cards to work usually (well besides Warrior), and its a good sub for Sword of Justice, which is overkill and totally unneeded as of right now. At the same time Club was really neat, because it can become a nice fat weapon to shut down your opponent weapon.
When it came down to it, I realized that to really make it shine you would probably need to have a bunch of buffed minions already, so it makes it nearly impossible to use in Warrior who's Goons cards trades widespread buffs for bigger buffs on a single target, requiring less minions in hand to have it hit the right cards, and slightly less hard but still awkward in Hunter whose are all a complete RNG fiesta. Also Hunter's can't draw whatsoever within its class (which totally sucks btw). Only Pally seemed to really use this the best. At least with the toothpick you can consistently draw a card with each class.
In the end it was still super close, and both of these creators seem to know whats up with good Goon weapons, congrats to both.
Both are good imo, but I'm going to vote for #2. Others have already pointed out some things about the cards; I'd just like to add that entry #1, while a fine card for me, has a missing rarity gem and it seems there is a double-space between "each" and "minion"? That subtracts some points, just enough for Toothpick to get ahead, nhf :/
I like Brawlers Club, but I feel like it would only ever see play in Paladin. Hunter and Warrior only have bigger single minion buffs, while Paladin have several ways of buffing multiple cards in their hand, which could potentially result in a 7/8 or 8/9 weapon late game (which is iffy. Having a 3 mana 10/10 minion is one thing, but a 3 mana 7/8 weapon basically demands weapon removal. That is the best way I could see it being played though, as the best possible curve play for it (Start second, 4 minions in hand, draw a fifth, T2 draw and play Smugglers Run, T3 Draw Brawlers Club and play it would give you a 5/6 weapon at the cost of doing almost nothing by turn 3. - 1 for missing the rarity gem though.
As for Hemet's Toothpick, I'll get my issue out the way first. As has been stated previously, buffed is not a term that exists in Hearthstone. However, I do like this, and could make the Grimy face paladin work, as well as possibly finding a home in a midrange Pirate warrior (Keep buffing the weapon, keep drawing cards).
I'll have to give my vote for Hemet's Toothpick here.
Eh, I'm not crazy about either of these designs. Handbuffing has proven to be such a weak mechanic that I wouldn't want combo cards that required other cards to be buffed. Pretty high chance that it doesn't work out, that you've already played your handbuffs by the time you draw either of these cards.
Hemet's Toothpick isn't worth 3 mana. 3 mana is barely a good deal to draw 3 cards, but requiring other conditions in order to trigger the draw is too unlikely. Acolyte of Pain is 3 mana, and it's already a bit of a hassle to get more than 1 draw out of.
Brawler's club as written is even worse. Imagine drawing this on an empty hand, a 0 attack weapon. It could probably be a 1/2 or even a 2/2 and be balanced. Remember, with handbuffing, the buff is already paid for, so there is no need to increase the cost of the buffed card.
My vote goes to Brawler's Club. With a revision, this could be a playable card. Hemet's Toothpick just seems too circumstantial to warrant being a card.
Yeah, if it were an instant three card draw, it would be super broken to be honest. But the fact that it has a parameter (and doubles as a possible trade if you're in a pinch for control) makes it just fair enough. IMO anyway.
Zardoz, your point about buffs already being paid for is a good one to take note of. I overlooked that in my analysis, and I agree with your suggestion. My vote won't change, but it does seem easier to address now. I think concerns with mega paladin hands are still at hand, though (pun intended).
Sadly I will be late tonight with the declaration of the winner. I traded shifts with a friend, so I'm working start (start in 30). Just wanted to let everyone know. Make sure you get your votes and comments in now before the match is finished.
It's time to bring back Design Duels. For those who have not seen any of the previous threads, these Design Duels are always a 1v1 design competition between two anonymous players. The two competitors don't even know each other. For those who like to compete in one of these, simply send me a PM and I will set you up for a match. Lately I have been trying to do 2 duels at the same time, one New Comer Design Duel (for those who have not done a design duel before) and a Veteran Design Duel. Anyone entering duels for the first time is automatically a New Comer, but once you've completed your first New Comer match you're bumped into veteran status. If you are interested in joining a duel, just send me a PM and I will add you to the queue. Now for New Comer Design Duel #10:
Prompt: Design a new weapon for the Grimy Goons
Entry #1: PheonixFeather Entry #2: Agithore (Winner)
As always, comment below and vote above!
Congratulations to Agithore for winning NCDD#10!
RedneckBudha
Ooh, nice theme! I think it's interesting that both cards went with something synnergized with hand buffs rather than providing them like their fellow Grimy Goons tri-class cards. Neither good nor bad, just interesting.
Both cards are reasonably balanced and themed, so I have to give this one to the Brawler's Club simply because I think it's better worded. "Buffs" are not a thing in Hearthstone. That's not wording that exists or that is even intuitive for people who aren't in the gaming community already. I just think Entry 1 is more intelligible.
This was a pretty tough call for me. I chose Hemet's Toothpick in the end because it functions as a motivator to play lightly-buffed minions instead of trying to save powerhouse plays for late game, which I think is a big mistake a lot of Goons players make (I'm pretty low rank myself so who am I to judge, but still). I also think Brawler's Club is at a weird spot where it can't be made any cheaper or any more powerful, because either direction would break it, but it's just kind of weak. You need a minimum of 3 buffed cards in your hand to make it worth playing for the mana cost, which means more card hoarding (see: Fiery War Axe, Stormforged Axe). I just think Club would slow players down more than anything, unless you happen to score a huge hand of minions and buff all of them right before drawing it.
Toothpick. Card draw is king.
I haven't seen this before, but its really cool. As far the the theme, its cool, though always hard to actually make a weapon that all 3 of these classes could/would use. Hunters used to be able to use any number of melee weapons, but very very rarely actually used them as anything other than sources of combat stats, and Paladins never had access to any sort of ranged weapons. In HS hunter's have solely been given ranged weapons, similar to how they now function in WoW. This means making a weapon the really fits all 3 of these classes is very difficult, and so staying on theme for the guild becomes more important.
Brawler's Club is interesting. I don't exactly see the Grimy Goons as Brawler's, but its not completely unfitting to think an Ogre and his hooligans would be running around with a few blunt objects. I like the idea of the card, though I think its very very dangerous, especially for Paladins. Hunters and Warriors have a harder time buffing multiple minions in hand, but Paladin can really go wild, and playing this as a 3/4, 4/5 or 5/6 weapon doesn't seem that unreasonable for them, which is a ton of value. In the other two classes I think its merely a fine weapon, maybe even a bit weak.
Hemet's Toothpick I have a lot more issues with. Hemet Nessingwary isn't a member or even associate of the Grimy Goons, and he's also not really that well represented in the game. Also, I'm assuming this is a dagger of some sort, seeing as how its used for picking teeth, and that isn't a weapon often used by any of these classes. The effect isn't worded spectacularly, as Asylum mentioned, but I don't think that's a major factor here. The wording could be changed, and as Blizzard has never printed a card that tries to interact with these "buffed" minions they may have chosen that wording. Buffing is a term used in MMOs, and many other video and table top games, not strictly card gaming. That being said, I don't like this card. Its an ineffective "weapon", and more of a value/card draw engine that requires a lot of work. Again, Paladin is most able to gain from this card, and regrettably equipping this and then wanting to override it with a different weapon feels super bad, something all of these classes could likely have to do.
With all that laid out, I vote for Brawler's Club. I think it suits the Grimy Goons better on the whole and would generate a more visceral and enjoyable experience when it worked. Neither entry is perfect, but both have merit and upsides. Great work both of you.
To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the women.
These were really good! In the end I went with the Toothpick. I noticed that Goons require a lot of cards to work usually (well besides Warrior), and its a good sub for Sword of Justice, which is overkill and totally unneeded as of right now. At the same time Club was really neat, because it can become a nice fat weapon to shut down your opponent weapon.
When it came down to it, I realized that to really make it shine you would probably need to have a bunch of buffed minions already, so it makes it nearly impossible to use in Warrior who's Goons cards trades widespread buffs for bigger buffs on a single target, requiring less minions in hand to have it hit the right cards, and slightly less hard but still awkward in Hunter whose are all a complete RNG fiesta. Also Hunter's can't draw whatsoever within its class (which totally sucks btw). Only Pally seemed to really use this the best. At least with the toothpick you can consistently draw a card with each class.
In the end it was still super close, and both of these creators seem to know whats up with good Goon weapons, congrats to both.
i think the club is better designed, but i'd personally rather play with the toothpick
entry 1 seems only good for paladin (even OP for aggro paladin) while entry 2 seems balanced for all 3 decks in a control-ish way.
I voted for entry 2
Just remember the good times!
Both are good imo, but I'm going to vote for #2. Others have already pointed out some things about the cards; I'd just like to add that entry #1, while a fine card for me, has a missing rarity gem and it seems there is a double-space between "each" and "minion"? That subtracts some points, just enough for Toothpick to get ahead, nhf :/
You can't stop the signal.
I like Brawlers Club, but I feel like it would only ever see play in Paladin. Hunter and Warrior only have bigger single minion buffs, while Paladin have several ways of buffing multiple cards in their hand, which could potentially result in a 7/8 or 8/9 weapon late game (which is iffy. Having a 3 mana 10/10 minion is one thing, but a 3 mana 7/8 weapon basically demands weapon removal. That is the best way I could see it being played though, as the best possible curve play for it (Start second, 4 minions in hand, draw a fifth, T2 draw and play Smugglers Run, T3 Draw Brawlers Club and play it would give you a 5/6 weapon at the cost of doing almost nothing by turn 3. - 1 for missing the rarity gem though.
As for Hemet's Toothpick, I'll get my issue out the way first. As has been stated previously, buffed is not a term that exists in Hearthstone. However, I do like this, and could make the Grimy face paladin work, as well as possibly finding a home in a midrange Pirate warrior (Keep buffing the weapon, keep drawing cards).
I'll have to give my vote for Hemet's Toothpick here.
Check out my entrant for the WCDC 9.12: Bilgewater Highroller
Eh, I'm not crazy about either of these designs. Handbuffing has proven to be such a weak mechanic that I wouldn't want combo cards that required other cards to be buffed. Pretty high chance that it doesn't work out, that you've already played your handbuffs by the time you draw either of these cards.
Hemet's Toothpick isn't worth 3 mana. 3 mana is barely a good deal to draw 3 cards, but requiring other conditions in order to trigger the draw is too unlikely. Acolyte of Pain is 3 mana, and it's already a bit of a hassle to get more than 1 draw out of.
Brawler's club as written is even worse. Imagine drawing this on an empty hand, a 0 attack weapon. It could probably be a 1/2 or even a 2/2 and be balanced. Remember, with handbuffing, the buff is already paid for, so there is no need to increase the cost of the buffed card.
My vote goes to Brawler's Club. With a revision, this could be a playable card. Hemet's Toothpick just seems too circumstantial to warrant being a card.
This one seemed really close, super excited to see what the results end up being. :)
Sadly I will be late tonight with the declaration of the winner. I traded shifts with a friend, so I'm working start (start in 30). Just wanted to let everyone know. Make sure you get your votes and comments in now before the match is finished.
RedneckBudha
Congratulations to Agithore for winning NCDD#10!
RedneckBudha