That is the obvious reason they got pulled. I for one never spent a dime on adventures. It was easier just to grind the gold. I do spend about 100 bucks for every expansion though.
I think expansions are more fun and exciting than adventures since we get over 100 cards. Also, did anyone really enjoy the story in these adventures? They were simple to the point of being inane and too short as well.
Smart move by Blizzard. Put some pressure on the free to play people to cough up like the rest of us.
Honestly, I love the change. Adventures bring a small amount of cards, and most of them are useless fillers. That means, after 4 months of waiting for a new expansion, we get almost nothing, and that makes the game even more boring a stale. That's why Karazhan is considered to be one of the worst expansions, if not the worst.
HS has a mobile game mentality now. The longer it will survive the more money they will want from you. Free-to-play players are doomed for the mediocrity.
I just want one single cool game that is free to play. Oh wait- there is yugioh duel links, comoletely free to play with the option to buy some packs to speed up a bit, not even much you gotta have to pay. Rip Hearthstone, you were cool during classic times but the more you go to the money direction, the more you are failing
f2p players will just play aggro, and Blizzard will continue to cater to aggro players by releasing more and more 1-2 drop cards with insane value. Meanwhile control will be lucky to get a card that is playable.
Thanks for sharing your cynical observation with us. It couldn't be that Blizzard realized that just 40 cards in a 6 - 8 month period isn't enough and that if that adventure fails, which is to say it either changes nothing or changes things for the worse (perfect example is Karazhan that mostly supported decks that were already strong at the time), then the meta is doomed to remain the same for very long, which is more likely to push people away. Will they gain more money with the new approach? Probably, but they will need to put more effort into the whole process and probably expand the team some more to handle their new workload. Correlation doesn't imply causation and as such you can't just say "Adventures were not profitable" and state it as a fact. I am willing to give some goodwill to Blizzard and believe that their decision was driven by genuine desire to improve the game and not greed. After all a game like Hearthstone has been built to last a long time and as such excessive greed is more likely to push people away than gain them a significant amount of money especially given that the game is pretty profitable as it is.
Y'know, I'm pretty sure that the adventures have been pretty good - or have we forgotten Loatheb and the rest of the baller cards from Nax?
The adventures have always had some bad cards, as have the expansions - the only difference being that there were fewer overall cards with the Adventures but more Legendaries - which can skew your viewpoint. The Nax adventures with Kel Thuzad or Baron Rivendareand the others were a brilliant change up. New exciting changes, older cards replaced with differently designed ones and entirely new deck archetypes - the list goes on.
H/S was never expected to be the success it turned out to be, it just happened at the right time and was developed really well. As soon as Blizz saw the public reaction to the release, they understood what they needed to do in terms of new card releases to keep the game fresh. I'd imagine that the total amount spent on the game from Blizz HQ is probably 10 or more times higher than they initially predicted they needed to at the start.
We had this hand wringing, outpouring of vitriol this time last year when apparently everyone was going to leave the game due to being ripped off. I see that hasn't happened though as the new releases keep people coming back.
As a developer Blizz are superb. They made some terrible calls with SC2 and I hope/think they have learned from this. It's not the pro scene that makes the game good, it's the accessibility and fun aspect that makes a game enjoyable.
That is the obvious reason they got pulled. I for one never spent a dime on adventures. It was easier just to grind the gold. I do spend about 100 bucks for every expansion though.
I think expansions are more fun and exciting than adventures since we get over 100 cards. Also, did anyone really enjoy the story in these adventures? They were simple to the point of being inane and too short as well.
Smart move by Blizzard. Put some pressure on the free to play people to cough up like the rest of us.
Adventures are a far cheaper in $ vs. gold than packs. So in your case, Blizzard drained gold you could have spent more wisely on packs, and got your $ on them instead.
That's not to say there isn't even more $$$ to make from a full expansion in place of an adventure.
In other news, going semi-infinite in Arena got easier. No need to save up gold for adventures now, can plow it all into opening packs via arena.
I have the feeling most cards of adventures were fillers anyway, barely used any of the last few.
These are all of the cards in League of Explorers. Cards that see (or saw) ladder play highlighted in bold.
Djinni of Zephyrs Jeweled Scarab Anubisath Sentinel Summoning Stone Rumbling Elemental Sacred Trial Tunnel Trogg Unearthed Raptor Fierce Monkey Reliquary Seeker Huge Toad Gorillabot A-3 Anyfin Can Happen Murloc Tinyfin Pit Snake Naga Sea Witch Fossilized Devilsaur Raven Idol Cursed Blade Museum Curator Curse of Rafaam Wobbling Runts Desert Camel Eerie Statue Reno Jackson Ancient Shade Brann Bronzebeard Excavated Evil Sir FInley Mrrglton Jungle Moonkin Elise Starseeker Arch-Thief Rafaam Obsidian Destroyer Dark Peddler Mounted Raptor Keeper of Uldaman Dart Trap Everyfin is Awesome Entomb Tomb Pillager Animated Armor
That's 22 of 45 cards, pretty damn good. Naxx has a even higher ratio than that, 22 of 30, and Karazhan is somewhere around 24/45. Not going to bother typing out a list for all of them :) Point being that these ratios are (I think) higher than for just about any expansion.
Of the people who buy the adventure probably 60-70% buy it all with gold. (literally you can easily get 100 gold per day so saving up for a full adventure is not hard)
it roughly comes out to what 3200 gold? a months worth unless you got extra gold from good quests so say 4 weeks roughly
3200 = 32 packs of the new set. its very obvious that it costs 150 packs to get like 90%+ of the cards
if they give us adventures along with the 130 card expansion that gives us roughly 15-25 packs(i really don't know how many but i'm guesstimating cause of gadgetzan)
People will see that they are getting free stuff, but they will also see that in order to get more cards their gonna have to bank their 3200 gold and spend 50$ or buy packs with gold as they come. IMO adventures were just too free. It also impacted the new 130 card expansions because you'd get legendaries that were dustable (find the bad ones, dust them, get free good ones from new set without buying packs).
Overall the adventures were cool and fun and I hope they keep the adventureness in the expansion solo mode, but Its kind of nice that there won't be 5000 reno decks day one anymore like when a new adventure hits
Honestly, I love the change. Adventures bring a small amount of cards, and most of them are useless fillers. That means, after 4 months of waiting for a new expansion, we get almost nothing, and that makes the game even more boring a stale. That's why Karazhan is considered to be one of the worst expansions, if not the worst.
And expansions bring a large amount of cards, and most of them are useless fillers. Instead of spending 3000ish gold for a dozen meta-relevant cards with adventures we can spend 3 or 4 times that with expansions to get the same result without the extra value of a simple story or challenge designs.
Wow! What a deal!
You say Karazhan might be the worst expansion but despite that label it stilled allowed for decks like Secret Hunter, Beast Druid, Discolock, and Resurrect Priest to become viable. No need to mention what it did for shamans either. Over half the cards from Karazhan saw real play.
Now compare that to Gadgetzan. 3 times the total cards released and did it achieve the same results as the worst adventure? Blizzard only has a certain amount of cards that are good with each release regardless if they release 30 cards or 130 cards. Adventures simply didn't make you gamble for them.
Honestly, I love the change. Adventures bring a small amount of cards, and most of them are useless fillers. That means, after 4 months of waiting for a new expansion, we get almost nothing, and that makes the game even more boring a stale. That's why Karazhan is considered to be one of the worst expansions, if not the worst.
And expansions bring a large amount of cards, and most of them are useless fillers. Instead of spending 3000ish gold for a dozen meta-relevant cards with adventures we can spend 3 or 4 times that with expansions to get the same result without the extra value of a simple story or challenge designs.
Wow! What a deal!
You say Karazhan might be the worst expansion but despite that label it stilled allowed for decks like Secret Hunter, Beast Druid, Discolock, and Resurrect Priest to become viable. No need to mention what it did for shamans either. Over half the cards from Karazhan saw real play.
Now compare that to Gadgetzan. 3 times the total cards released and did it achieve the same results as the worst adventure? Blizzard only has a certain amount of cards that are good with each release regardless if they release 30 cards or 130 cards. Adventures simply didn't make you gamble for them.
Wow that is short-sighted. Tell me which Karazhan cards are seeing widespread play now is it Beast Druid, Discolock, Secret Hunter or perhaps none of the above? Under the right circumstances Hand Buff decks are likely to become strong (when the next expansion releases), but I doubt Karazhan's impact will be long lasting and as such you can't talk as if the fact that a part of Karazhan's card saw play for a limited time is enough to consider it a success over MSG that currently has some unexplored archetypes in it. Besides as time passes and with experience I am expecting the cards they introduce to contain less fillers and better card quality, but the fact that not 100% are viable is ok. Would you want to have to buy/craft all the cards of every expansion?
Honestly, I love the change. Adventures bring a small amount of cards, and most of them are useless fillers. That means, after 4 months of waiting for a new expansion, we get almost nothing, and that makes the game even more boring a stale. That's why Karazhan is considered to be one of the worst expansions, if not the worst.
And expansions bring a large amount of cards, and most of them are useless fillers. Instead of spending 3000ish gold for a dozen meta-relevant cards with adventures we can spend 3 or 4 times that with expansions to get the same result without the extra value of a simple story or challenge designs.
Wow! What a deal!
You say Karazhan might be the worst expansion but despite that label it stilled allowed for decks like Secret Hunter, Beast Druid, Discolock, and Resurrect Priest to become viable. No need to mention what it did for shamans either. Over half the cards from Karazhan saw real play.
Now compare that to Gadgetzan. 3 times the total cards released and did it achieve the same results as the worst adventure? Blizzard only has a certain amount of cards that are good with each release regardless if they release 30 cards or 130 cards. Adventures simply didn't make you gamble for them.
Wow that is short-sighted. Tell me which Karazhan cards are seeing widespread play now is it Beast Druid, Discolock, Secret Hunter or perhaps none of the above? Under the right circumstances Hand Buff decks are likely to become strong (when the next expansion releases), but I doubt Karazhan's impact will be long lasting and as such you can't talk as if the fact that a part of Karazhan's card saw play for a limited time is enough to consider it a success over MSG that currently has some unexplored archetypes in it. Besides as time passes and with experience I am expecting the cards they introduce to contain less fillers and better card quality, but the fact that not 100% are viable is ok. Would you want to have to buy/craft all the cards of every expansion?
MSG has been one of the worst expansions in terms of diversifying the meta. Jade Idol ALONE essentially killed an archetype as wide-ranging as CONTROL. The fact that MSG decimating the idea of a varied meta NOW has nothing to do with Kara's success or failure as an adventure THEN. You can't expect Kara to preemptively work around cards that don't exist yet. Kara interacted with cards that came before in a good way offering more ways to play. MSG interacted with cards that came before by utterly destroying large swathes of different deck types. Kara allowed us to play a bunch fun decks, MSG makes us play Jade, Reno, and Pirates.
The difference between you and I is that I don't have blind faith in a company to magically make things better for no reason when they have never done so before and has offered no evidence to the contrary. If anything, MSG has shown the REVERSE is happening.
If they were adventures I would have all the cards guaranteed anyways, regardless of their viability.
I just can't take this thread seriously with Blizzard's greed being used as argument by naysayers at every opportunity while ignoring all the free stuff we get at the same time.
I just can't take this thread seriously with Blizzard's greed being used as argument by naysayers at every opportunity while ignoring all the free stuff we get at the same time.
I don't understand why people complain about an essentially free game....You don't have to spend a dime if you don't want to.
The whole P2W argument is pure bullshit. I buy packs, I do so because I chose to, I do not have the time to spend hours a day farming for gold as I have a full time job, wife and family.
God forbid that Blizzard want to make some money to pay staff and develop more games..
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...The problem is not the problem, the problem is your attitude to the problem.
MSG has been one of the worst expansions in terms of diversifying the meta. Jade Idol ALONE essentially killed an archetype as wide-ranging as CONTROL.
Then what do you think Reno decks are? The main reason why those are the only control decks people play is because the pirate decks are so aggressive that you usually need to heal for a lot, quickly and thus Reno Jackson. Sure Jade can be strong against control, but only Jade Druid has unlimited minions and I don't see Jade Druid becoming 50% of the meta. The fact that control decks now have an archetype that counters them and may be run by 10% of the playerbase doesn't kill an archetype. Stop exaggerating so much.
You can't expect Kara to preemptively work around cards that don't exist yet. Kara interacted with cards that came before in a good way offering more ways to play.
Whenever did I say that? I just said that the impact of those cards was either negative ( because they reinforced Malygos Druid and Midrange Shaman) or not good enough to stand the test of time (for Beast Druid, Secret Hunter and Discolock so much so that they completely disappeared after the release of MSG). Compare that to LoE whose cards have had a much more long-lasting effect and you can see just how bad Karazhan was.
The difference between you and I is that I don't have blind faith in a company to magically make things better for no reason when they have never done so before and has offered no evidence to the contrary. If anything, MSG has shown the REVERSE is happening.
Then leave the game and don't comment again. As far as you are concerned the game is going downhill anyway and there is no saving it. The reason why I have faith is because I am sure that any creative process (such as the creation of a game) requires dedication and loving your work (and by extension the game), which I am sure is true for Team 5. Are there problems with the game? Yes. Has the impact of additional sets always been less meaningful? No, after TGT we had LoE and WotOG, which were pretty amazing. Shouldn't we give the devs some time to learn what is ok and what isn't since HS is a relatively young game? Yes. I don't have blind faith, I just recognize that it isn't as simple as people want to think and as such I am willing to give Blizzard time to get it right. If that isn't the case for you then just leave, no need for your bitterness here.
If they were adventures I would have all the cards guaranteed anyways, regardless of their viability.
Well the game isn't just about you. It is also about those people who get bored from the lack of content and who have played for a long time to whom the game has started to feel pretty samey. Of course you don't care about that and you only want a solution for yourself. Well thank god Blizzard isn't going to do that instead they will try to both satisfy players like me and people like you (like they said in their Q&A they want to support F2P more), but I guess we shouldn't put blind faith in Blizzard instead let's just blindly accuse them of greed and incompetence or you could just wait and see what exactly it is they have planned for F2P.
f2p players will just play aggro, and Blizzard will continue to cater to aggro players by releasing more and more 1-2 drop cards with insane value. Meanwhile control will be lucky to get a card that is playable.
There were actually quite a lot of control cards printed in gadgetzan. If there wasn't then aggro would have a much higher win rate against the reno decks, but reno decks have kazakhus, mistress, volcanic potion, blastcrystal, second rate bruiser, raza, abyssal, felfire, potion of madness, dirty rat. Those are ALL great control cards, and there are plenty of others in the other decks. In fact, mid range shaman in it's current version is much closer to a control deck because it runs board clears and heal and goes for value late game. Jade druid plays a complete control game against aggro decks until it can drop big body cards.
People seem to think that every card that isn't used in control warrior isn't a control card. The ironic part is Fib is running 3 gadgetzan cards in control warrior, showing that even that archetype got love in this expansion.
Reno decks are absolutely control decks.
There were upwards of 20 viable control cards printed in this set, which is quite a lot for one type of deck. You'd have to be fucking blind not to see that. Complain about aggro all you want, but when you say control decks get no cards you look like you haven't opened any gadgetzan packs.
MSG has been one of the worst expansions in terms of diversifying the meta. Jade Idol ALONE essentially killed an archetype as wide-ranging as CONTROL...
Are you saying all those tier 3 Jade Druids are the reason that the classical control decks aren't viable on ladder anymore? Druid, accounting for 10% of ladder accross the ranks, suppressing control, as if having 1 out of 10 matches against an anti fatigue strategy is what murdered that archetype? The typical control decks of yesteryear aren't very viable anymore (except Reno), that's true... But it's not because of Jade Idol.
It's a part of it now and will be an even bigger part of it after rotation, I think Kazakus is just the unsung design fuck up of the set for making Control Warrior a wash vs Reno decks.
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That is the obvious reason they got pulled. I for one never spent a dime on adventures. It was easier just to grind the gold. I do spend about 100 bucks for every expansion though.
I think expansions are more fun and exciting than adventures since we get over 100 cards. Also, did anyone really enjoy the story in these adventures? They were simple to the point of being inane and too short as well.
Smart move by Blizzard. Put some pressure on the free to play people to cough up like the rest of us.
Honestly, I love the change. Adventures bring a small amount of cards, and most of them are useless fillers. That means, after 4 months of waiting for a new expansion, we get almost nothing, and that makes the game even more boring a stale. That's why Karazhan is considered to be one of the worst expansions, if not the worst.
Valar Morghulis
HS has a mobile game mentality now. The longer it will survive the more money they will want from you. Free-to-play players are doomed for the mediocrity.
I just want one single cool game that is free to play. Oh wait- there is yugioh duel links, comoletely free to play with the option to buy some packs to speed up a bit, not even much you gotta have to pay. Rip Hearthstone, you were cool during classic times but the more you go to the money direction, the more you are failing
Just remember the good times!
f2p players will just play aggro, and Blizzard will continue to cater to aggro players by releasing more and more 1-2 drop cards with insane value. Meanwhile control will be lucky to get a card that is playable.
Thanks for sharing your cynical observation with us. It couldn't be that Blizzard realized that just 40 cards in a 6 - 8 month period isn't enough and that if that adventure fails, which is to say it either changes nothing or changes things for the worse (perfect example is Karazhan that mostly supported decks that were already strong at the time), then the meta is doomed to remain the same for very long, which is more likely to push people away. Will they gain more money with the new approach? Probably, but they will need to put more effort into the whole process and probably expand the team some more to handle their new workload. Correlation doesn't imply causation and as such you can't just say "Adventures were not profitable" and state it as a fact. I am willing to give some goodwill to Blizzard and believe that their decision was driven by genuine desire to improve the game and not greed. After all a game like Hearthstone has been built to last a long time and as such excessive greed is more likely to push people away than gain them a significant amount of money especially given that the game is pretty profitable as it is.
Y'know, I'm pretty sure that the adventures have been pretty good - or have we forgotten Loatheb and the rest of the baller cards from Nax?
The adventures have always had some bad cards, as have the expansions - the only difference being that there were fewer overall cards with the Adventures but more Legendaries - which can skew your viewpoint. The Nax adventures with Kel Thuzad or Baron Rivendareand the others were a brilliant change up. New exciting changes, older cards replaced with differently designed ones and entirely new deck archetypes - the list goes on.
H/S was never expected to be the success it turned out to be, it just happened at the right time and was developed really well. As soon as Blizz saw the public reaction to the release, they understood what they needed to do in terms of new card releases to keep the game fresh. I'd imagine that the total amount spent on the game from Blizz HQ is probably 10 or more times higher than they initially predicted they needed to at the start.
We had this hand wringing, outpouring of vitriol this time last year when apparently everyone was going to leave the game due to being ripped off. I see that hasn't happened though as the new releases keep people coming back.
As a developer Blizz are superb. They made some terrible calls with SC2 and I hope/think they have learned from this. It's not the pro scene that makes the game good, it's the accessibility and fun aspect that makes a game enjoyable.
Adventures are a far cheaper in $ vs. gold than packs. So in your case, Blizzard drained gold you could have spent more wisely on packs, and got your $ on them instead.
That's not to say there isn't even more $$$ to make from a full expansion in place of an adventure.
In other news, going semi-infinite in Arena got easier. No need to save up gold for adventures now, can plow it all into opening packs via arena.
Djinni of Zephyrs
Jeweled Scarab
Anubisath Sentinel
Summoning Stone
Rumbling Elemental
Sacred Trial
Tunnel Trogg
Unearthed Raptor
Fierce Monkey
Reliquary Seeker
Huge Toad
Gorillabot A-3
Anyfin Can Happen
Murloc Tinyfin
Pit Snake
Naga Sea Witch
Fossilized Devilsaur
Raven Idol
Cursed Blade
Museum Curator
Curse of Rafaam
Wobbling Runts
Desert Camel
Eerie Statue
Reno Jackson
Ancient Shade
Brann Bronzebeard
Excavated Evil
Sir FInley Mrrglton
Jungle Moonkin
Elise Starseeker
Arch-Thief Rafaam
Obsidian Destroyer
Dark Peddler
Mounted Raptor
Keeper of Uldaman
Dart Trap
Everyfin is Awesome
Entomb
Tomb Pillager
Animated Armor
Think of it this way
Of the people who buy the adventure probably 60-70% buy it all with gold. (literally you can easily get 100 gold per day so saving up for a full adventure is not hard)
it roughly comes out to what 3200 gold? a months worth unless you got extra gold from good quests so say 4 weeks roughly
3200 = 32 packs of the new set. its very obvious that it costs 150 packs to get like 90%+ of the cards
if they give us adventures along with the 130 card expansion that gives us roughly 15-25 packs(i really don't know how many but i'm guesstimating cause of gadgetzan)
People will see that they are getting free stuff, but they will also see that in order to get more cards their gonna have to bank their 3200 gold and spend 50$ or buy packs with gold as they come. IMO adventures were just too free. It also impacted the new 130 card expansions because you'd get legendaries that were dustable (find the bad ones, dust them, get free good ones from new set without buying packs).
Overall the adventures were cool and fun and I hope they keep the adventureness in the expansion solo mode, but Its kind of nice that there won't be 5000 reno decks day one anymore like when a new adventure hits
I just can't take this thread seriously with Blizzard's greed being used as argument by naysayers at every opportunity while ignoring all the free stuff we get at the same time.
Strange. I only paid once for packs, but usually bought the expansions. I guess I'm weird.
I like to make cards and discuss game balance.
I enjoy when "No similar decks were found."
My latest deck: http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/1366184-scholomance-charge-rez-priest-wild
I don't understand why people complain about an essentially free game....You don't have to spend a dime if you don't want to.
The whole P2W argument is pure bullshit. I buy packs, I do so because I chose to, I do not have the time to spend hours a day farming for gold as I have a full time job, wife and family.
God forbid that Blizzard want to make some money to pay staff and develop more games..
...The problem is not the problem, the problem is your attitude to the problem.
Then what do you think Reno decks are? The main reason why those are the only control decks people play is because the pirate decks are so aggressive that you usually need to heal for a lot, quickly and thus Reno Jackson. Sure Jade can be strong against control, but only Jade Druid has unlimited minions and I don't see Jade Druid becoming 50% of the meta. The fact that control decks now have an archetype that counters them and may be run by 10% of the playerbase doesn't kill an archetype. Stop exaggerating so much.
Whenever did I say that? I just said that the impact of those cards was either negative ( because they reinforced Malygos Druid and Midrange Shaman) or not good enough to stand the test of time (for Beast Druid, Secret Hunter and Discolock so much so that they completely disappeared after the release of MSG). Compare that to LoE whose cards have had a much more long-lasting effect and you can see just how bad Karazhan was.
Then leave the game and don't comment again. As far as you are concerned the game is going downhill anyway and there is no saving it. The reason why I have faith is because I am sure that any creative process (such as the creation of a game) requires dedication and loving your work (and by extension the game), which I am sure is true for Team 5. Are there problems with the game? Yes. Has the impact of additional sets always been less meaningful? No, after TGT we had LoE and WotOG, which were pretty amazing. Shouldn't we give the devs some time to learn what is ok and what isn't since HS is a relatively young game? Yes. I don't have blind faith, I just recognize that it isn't as simple as people want to think and as such I am willing to give Blizzard time to get it right. If that isn't the case for you then just leave, no need for your bitterness here.
Well the game isn't just about you. It is also about those people who get bored from the lack of content and who have played for a long time to whom the game has started to feel pretty samey. Of course you don't care about that and you only want a solution for yourself. Well thank god Blizzard isn't going to do that instead they will try to both satisfy players like me and people like you (like they said in their Q&A they want to support F2P more), but I guess we shouldn't put blind faith in Blizzard instead let's just blindly accuse them of greed and incompetence or you could just wait and see what exactly it is they have planned for F2P.
There were actually quite a lot of control cards printed in gadgetzan. If there wasn't then aggro would have a much higher win rate against the reno decks, but reno decks have kazakhus, mistress, volcanic potion, blastcrystal, second rate bruiser, raza, abyssal, felfire, potion of madness, dirty rat. Those are ALL great control cards, and there are plenty of others in the other decks. In fact, mid range shaman in it's current version is much closer to a control deck because it runs board clears and heal and goes for value late game. Jade druid plays a complete control game against aggro decks until it can drop big body cards.
People seem to think that every card that isn't used in control warrior isn't a control card. The ironic part is Fib is running 3 gadgetzan cards in control warrior, showing that even that archetype got love in this expansion.
Reno decks are absolutely control decks.
There were upwards of 20 viable control cards printed in this set, which is quite a lot for one type of deck. You'd have to be fucking blind not to see that. Complain about aggro all you want, but when you say control decks get no cards you look like you haven't opened any gadgetzan packs.