Rogue has always been a parasite for the game, and I say this with most of my wins being on rogue. Time and time again the class gets shafted with bad cards, but just due to the base cards the class has access too and the hero power. It is hard to give rogue good cards because so much of the class is tempo orientated, with the hero power easily providing the most tempo compared to the rest, having access to Preparation to cheat out big spells to keep the board clean, Backstab etc.
Whenever they've tried to branch out and provide more types of cards to bring different playstyles, such as Valeera the Hollow and Kobold Illusionist, they often don't get the support they need to truly carry an archetype. I know Valeera is used in Kingsbane in wild to great success and Kobold Illusionist singlehandedly brought Big Rogue into existence, but thats because they have access to stronger cards that support said archetypes in wild.
Rogue has always been either been incredibly combo centric decks relying completely on interacting with each other strongly (such as MIracle, Quest, Oil) or just beating the opponent up by out tempoing them (such as with Tempo rogue, odd rogue and pirate rogue) and just due to this, it's hard to branch Rogue into other things. In the late game, a 1/2 or a 2/2 dagger are really bad, along with Backstab, Preparation and many other cards that make Rogue strong in the early game. Because of this, it's hard to make a rogue deck based on going into the late game with cards like these just because they are incredibly bad if you draw into them. Cards such as Academic Espionage have somewhat made a new archetype 'strong enough' for rogue, but this is mainly due to just highrolling the living daylights out of somebody by drawing an expensive thing.
Rogue has gotten plenty of strong cards, it just can't use them well because the class is so bent on doing one of two things.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I don't have something witty about this deck, I just like it because Malygos is fun.
Please, I don't complain about the classic set for rogue, it is very good, maybe the best.
I don't complain about neutrals like Leeroy, Auctioneer or Baku, cards always make rogue playable in many metas.
I complain about the class cards rogue get in expansions, never, ever, a card like CtA, MC or 10 manas I win the game, like DK hunter and warlock or UI, not once.
If this is because Preparation then HoF this cursed card and give something new for rogue.
If there is a class that needs help and pity, it's warrior and priest.
My rage with Big Priest highrolling in wild or priest copying my 1-2 most powerful cards in my deck 3-4 times in a single game, completely carrying their win makes me not feel pity for the class. Let it die, with fire.
Rogue crying for being weak? What's next; odd paladin crying for not dealing enough damage?
Rogue has the BEST basic-set, the BEST Weapon with Kingsbane (ok, in wild, but there it's insane), always continuous strong decks like Odd Rogue; Miracle and always being in the TOP meta of nearly ANY expansion. Heck, no other class needed to be nerfed as often as rogue because it's so insane.
Sorry, but i really don't have enough reasons to feel pity for rogues. Look what priest got, your cards are phantastic compared to their crap.
And you seem to have forgotten Elven Minstrel; insane value: draw 2 cards, and they are even some sort of tutor-effect, only drawing minions.
But yes, these poor poor rogues...
Priest has Obsidian Statue and 1000 ways to resurrect it . Not to mention 1000 ways to summon any minion you have as 1/1 ,5/5 or heck full health.
, god forbid, support the control/steal archetype they have been semi pushing since Burgle,
Value-burgle archetype is meant to be for players that like fooling around with bad decks with huge variance. If they really wanted to support that archertype, they wouldn't print Stolen Steel ever. Even Violet Haze could be an interesting choice if it was reasonably priced. Really, what would it break if it costed 2? Warriors got that but for dragons.
Would it matter if rogue never got a good card? I mean the community whines over 90% of the decks rogues get that aren't trash tier and the decks get nerfed so that things like warlock can go back to being Tier-Blizzard's-love-child.
Tempo Rogue - Nerfed twice.
Miracle Rogue - Conceal HoFed
Mill/Kingsbane Rogue - Oracle HoFed (Not going to cry over this one)
Quest Rogue - Nerfed twice
Water Rogue - Warleader nerfed, Patches nerfed
Pretty much the only things rogue have had that weren't nerfed was Jade Rogue, C'Thun Rogue, the memey giants rogue, Maly Rogue, and the old Mech Rogue. And technically Maly Rogue was indirectly nerfed via geist. So long story short, if rogue gets a broken card the community will just complain and get it nerfed after three months (essentially rendering the new broken rogue card non-existent anyway).
You forgot oil rogue that made them nerf blade flurry.
And Leeroy got nerfed because Leeroy shadows step,Leeroy shadowstep leeroy coldblood coldblood use to be broken(10 mana do 26 damage)
He use to be 4 mana. Im sure he would have been nerfed anyway sooner or later but it doesnt change the fact that rogue got him nerfed.
And now that i think about it it's most likely the class that have the most nerfed card or forced blizzard to nerf the most cards. There is also an few neutrals minions that might as well be rogue card's or is best used in rogue.
Rogue got Keleseth, Bonemare, Patches and Corridor Creeper, then proceeded to be the best class last year. Rogue may not gave gotten broken cards for a while, but lots of Rogue cards are insanely strong and also very interesting. Currently I think roghe is pretty well-balanced and by far the most fun class in the game.
My rage with Big Priest highrolling in wild or priest copying my 1-2 most powerful cards in my deck 3-4 times in a single game, completely carrying their win makes me not feel pity for the class. Let it die, with fire.
It's a shame you play in the Americas server. My Steal Priest would love to have a word with you. ;)
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You might aswell ask; When Hunter will get a Fireball Spell? ( Or any relevant dmg to face Spell)
In the end it comes down to the old core/basic cardpool powerlevel, Brian Kibler always talking about... Classes with a weaker base powerlevel will always get more powerful cards than classes with a good core set. And while doing so, they sometimes become more broken than expected. ( Misterious Challenger etc. )
PS: Druid is probably a exception , but Druid mainly benefits from Blizzard not printing any powerful/snowbally 1 or 2 drops anymore... so they can savely ramp without getting punished...but that’s another story.
Priest has Obsidian Statue and 1000 ways to resurrect it . Not to mention 1000 ways to summon any minion you have as 1/1 ,5/5 or heck full health.
And what's the class in wild that can easily beat Big Priest: nah, who is it? Sorry, but Rogues really need to lay low with crying how weak they are; especially when you have around a 100% winrate with Kingsbane Mill Rogue against any kind of Priest deck. What should we play instead when every other Priest deck gets instantly crushed with Kingsbane in Wild; only Big Priest have a miniscule chance to win the game.
And here we have the problem: with Mill Rogue and Kingsbane Mill Rogue you have a monster in wild (and really, when wasn't there a tier 1 rogue deck in standard), and now people are crying that their rogue is not totally overpowered as druid right now is? Boo hoo... sorry that i have not more pity with rogues.
Rogue as above said is one of the most nerfed classes because rogue basic-set is so insane that they need to nerf around rogues around nearly every time. You see how strong it is when the rogue-quest, nerfed 2 times (no other card outside of beta was this often nerfed) and still is really really strong.
Just wait and see: rogue decks are more complicated to create than Hunter; i'm sure you will find your overpowered deck of the month in a few days. And if not, there's still odd rogue.
"Why do everyone else get to play broken stuff but Rogue? It's not like my class has caused several nerfs throughout the history of Hearthstone. It's not like my class has been relevant in almost every expansion since forever. I just want to play broken stuff because other classes has done it"
Rogue like most of you mentioned lived because of good neutral cards, the times where rogue was "op" are long time gone (Oil, Bladeflurry)
They removed conceal because of "Questing Adventurer and Auctioneer", the gift were nice cards (vilespine, elven minstrel) and again forced it into a tempo-archetype. By the time Blizz missed the opportunity to give rogue one of the strongest class cards ever (Small-time buccaneer is a neutral card) and was causing a lot of "aggro-problems" (played by Shaman, Warrior also Hunter) instead they nerfed it and it was gone...
The Deathknight counts in this way nothing as they all are "op" even if the powerlevel differs (Rexxar...)
Deathrattle-Rogue = tempo/aggro, Espionage = meme, Pogo + Lab = nice Idea, lul (Jade Golem-mechanic), Myra Rotspring is kind of a joke-RNG-Fiesta (stats also...), baku = boring ==> 1st ever for me that I've played another class for three consecutive seasons
The new legendaries seem again like a scam... Hooktusk (bad stats) should give charge instead of rush, the shark is easily countered by silence and the pirate-archetype would need some stronger cards, pirates i.g. have average/bad stats and again are sort of tempoish
Myra's Unstable Element is a nice card but again in most cases for aggro/tempo, maybe sth. good will come out of it, dunno
Yeah, rogue is always this kind of "left-alone" class, where the player-base has to find sth. cheesy to make it work
Paladin get MC, in that time there is nothing can be do about it, if paladin play MC on curve without losing many draws in secrets he won, don't matter what you do, eater of secrets only released after paladin lose one of best secrets then don't matter, was the more broken card in that time and get CtA, an insanely OP card for only 4 manas.
What the hell is MC? Is it so hard to use full card names?
Nevermind just realized it's mysterious challenger.
Rogue like most of you mentioned lived because of good neutral cards, the times where rogue was "op" are long time gone (Oil, Bladeflurry)
They removed conceal because of "Questing Adventurer and Auctioneer", the gift were nice cards (vilespine, elven minstrel) and again forced it into a tempo-archetype. By the time Blizz missed the opportunity to give rogue one of the strongest class cards ever (Small-time buccaneer is a neutral card) and was causing a lot of "aggro-problems" (played by Shaman, Warrior also Hunter) instead they nerfed it and it was gone...
The Deathknight counts in this way nothing as they all are "op" even if the powerlevel differs (Rexxar...)
Deathrattle-Rogue = tempo/aggro, Espionage = meme, Pogo + Lab = nice Idea, lul (Jade Golem-mechanic), Myra Rotspring is kind of a joke-RNG-Fiesta (stats also...), baku = boring ==> 1st ever for me that I've played another class for three consecutive seasons
The new legendaries seem again like a scam... Hooktusk (bad stats) should give charge instead of rush, the shark is easily countered by silence and the pirate-archetype would need some stronger cards, pirates i.g. have average/bad stats and again are sort of tempoish
Myra's Unstable Element is a nice card but again in most cases for aggro/tempo, maybe sth. good will come out of it, dunno
Yeah, rogue is always this kind of "left-alone" class, where the player-base has to find sth. cheesy to make it work
That is it.
The class never have a problem to be part of meta but more than any other class (maybe except priest) received the worst cards in expansions, and we have a LOT of expansions... <_<
Rogue has always been a parasite for the game, and I say this with most of my wins being on rogue. Time and time again the class gets shafted with bad cards, but just due to the base cards the class has access too and the hero power. It is hard to give rogue good cards because so much of the class is tempo orientated, with the hero power easily providing the most tempo compared to the rest, having access to Preparation to cheat out big spells to keep the board clean, Backstab etc.
Whenever they've tried to branch out and provide more types of cards to bring different playstyles, such as Valeera the Hollow and Kobold Illusionist, they often don't get the support they need to truly carry an archetype. I know Valeera is used in Kingsbane in wild to great success and Kobold Illusionist singlehandedly brought Big Rogue into existence, but thats because they have access to stronger cards that support said archetypes in wild.
Rogue has always been either been incredibly combo centric decks relying completely on interacting with each other strongly (such as MIracle, Quest, Oil) or just beating the opponent up by out tempoing them (such as with Tempo rogue, odd rogue and pirate rogue) and just due to this, it's hard to branch Rogue into other things. In the late game, a 1/2 or a 2/2 dagger are really bad, along with Backstab, Preparation and many other cards that make Rogue strong in the early game. Because of this, it's hard to make a rogue deck based on going into the late game with cards like these just because they are incredibly bad if you draw into them. Cards such as Academic Espionage have somewhat made a new archetype 'strong enough' for rogue, but this is mainly due to just highrolling the living daylights out of somebody by drawing an expensive thing.
Rogue has gotten plenty of strong cards, it just can't use them well because the class is so bent on doing one of two things.
I don't have something witty about this deck, I just like it because Malygos is fun.
My rage with Big Priest highrolling in wild or priest copying my 1-2 most powerful cards in my deck 3-4 times in a single game, completely carrying their win makes me not feel pity for the class. Let it die, with fire.
Priest has Obsidian Statue and 1000 ways to resurrect it . Not to mention 1000 ways to summon any minion you have as 1/1 ,5/5 or heck full health.
Value-burgle archetype is meant to be for players that like fooling around with bad decks with huge variance. If they really wanted to support that archertype, they wouldn't print Stolen Steel ever. Even Violet Haze could be an interesting choice if it was reasonably priced. Really, what would it break if it costed 2? Warriors got that but for dragons.
We don't need broken cards.
We have the whole broken class already! :D
You forgot oil rogue that made them nerf blade flurry.
And Leeroy got nerfed because Leeroy shadows step,Leeroy shadowstep leeroy coldblood coldblood use to be broken(10 mana do 26 damage)
He use to be 4 mana. Im sure he would have been nerfed anyway sooner or later but it doesnt change the fact that rogue got him nerfed.
And now that i think about it it's most likely the class that have the most nerfed card or forced blizzard to nerf the most cards. There is also an few neutrals minions that might as well be rogue card's or is best used in rogue.
There are a lot of cards at tier 1 level for a rogue.
You're dumb to think otherwise :)
Rogue got Keleseth, Bonemare, Patches and Corridor Creeper, then proceeded to be the best class last year. Rogue may not gave gotten broken cards for a while, but lots of Rogue cards are insanely strong and also very interesting. Currently I think roghe is pretty well-balanced and by far the most fun class in the game.
It's a shame you play in the Americas server. My Steal Priest would love to have a word with you. ;)
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To the Original Poster of this thread:
You might aswell ask; When Hunter will get a Fireball Spell? ( Or any relevant dmg to face Spell)
In the end it comes down to the old core/basic cardpool powerlevel, Brian Kibler always talking about... Classes with a weaker base powerlevel will always get more powerful cards than classes with a good core set. And while doing so, they sometimes become more broken than expected. ( Misterious Challenger etc. )
PS: Druid is probably a exception , but Druid mainly benefits from Blizzard not printing any powerful/snowbally 1 or 2 drops anymore... so they can savely ramp without getting punished...but that’s another story.
I hope never. Playing aggainst a strong rogue deck, is the most unfun thing in this game.
And what's the class in wild that can easily beat Big Priest: nah, who is it? Sorry, but Rogues really need to lay low with crying how weak they are; especially when you have around a 100% winrate with Kingsbane Mill Rogue against any kind of Priest deck. What should we play instead when every other Priest deck gets instantly crushed with Kingsbane in Wild; only Big Priest have a miniscule chance to win the game.
And here we have the problem: with Mill Rogue and Kingsbane Mill Rogue you have a monster in wild (and really, when wasn't there a tier 1 rogue deck in standard), and now people are crying that their rogue is not totally overpowered as druid right now is? Boo hoo... sorry that i have not more pity with rogues.
Rogue as above said is one of the most nerfed classes because rogue basic-set is so insane that they need to nerf around rogues around nearly every time. You see how strong it is when the rogue-quest, nerfed 2 times (no other card outside of beta was this often nerfed) and still is really really strong.
Just wait and see: rogue decks are more complicated to create than Hunter; i'm sure you will find your overpowered deck of the month in a few days. And if not, there's still odd rogue.
Holy crap a load of bullshit.
"Why do everyone else get to play broken stuff but Rogue? It's not like my class has caused several nerfs throughout the history of Hearthstone. It's not like my class has been relevant in almost every expansion since forever. I just want to play broken stuff because other classes has done it"
Jesus christ...
To Thread-opener: As a Valeera-lover I feel you
Rogue like most of you mentioned lived because of good neutral cards, the times where rogue was "op" are long time gone (Oil, Bladeflurry)
They removed conceal because of "Questing Adventurer and Auctioneer", the gift were nice cards (vilespine, elven minstrel) and again forced it into a tempo-archetype. By the time Blizz missed the opportunity to give rogue one of the strongest class cards ever (Small-time buccaneer is a neutral card) and was causing a lot of "aggro-problems" (played by Shaman, Warrior also Hunter) instead they nerfed it and it was gone...
The Deathknight counts in this way nothing as they all are "op" even if the powerlevel differs (Rexxar...)
Deathrattle-Rogue = tempo/aggro, Espionage = meme, Pogo + Lab = nice Idea, lul (Jade Golem-mechanic), Myra Rotspring is kind of a joke-RNG-Fiesta (stats also...), baku = boring ==> 1st ever for me that I've played another class for three consecutive seasons
The new legendaries seem again like a scam... Hooktusk (bad stats) should give charge instead of rush, the shark is easily countered by silence and the pirate-archetype would need some stronger cards, pirates i.g. have average/bad stats and again are sort of tempoish
Myra's Unstable Element is a nice card but again in most cases for aggro/tempo, maybe sth. good will come out of it, dunno
Yeah, rogue is always this kind of "left-alone" class, where the player-base has to find sth. cheesy to make it work
What the hell is MC? Is it so hard to use full card names?
Nevermind just realized it's mysterious challenger.
Kingsbane
reviving the kingsbane yes, the pirate-oil in wild yes, forces standard to play aggro/tempo I guess
Cannon Barrage COULD be key to a combo-deck but this depends heavily on the meta
That is it.
The class never have a problem to be part of meta but more than any other class (maybe except priest) received the worst cards in expansions, and we have a LOT of expansions... <_<
Rogue breaks every card they're ever given.
I can remind you none of this cards are rogue cards but neutral ones?