Ben Brode: "We Might Rotate Some Additional Classic Cards to Wild"
Ben's been a busy guy lately! Mr. Brode took to the official forums to discuss the goals behind Standard and wanted to let everyone know that if the team doesn't think enough will change, they have no issues moving problematic cards out of the basic and classic sets.
- The ultimate goal is to keep Standard fresh every year.
- If the same Basic and Classic cards appear too frequently each year, that won't be them achieving their goal.
- Meta will always need to be watched to make plans for the next Standard year.
- Releasing new cards is better than buffing cards from the classic and basic sets.
You can join the discussion over on our forums, or leave a comment below to share your thoughts.
Quote from Ben BrodeThe goal with Standard is to keep the meta fresh for each yearly rotation. There are some benefits to keeping Basic and Classic cards in Standard: Returning players have an entry-point to the new format, and new players experience classics like "Hogger" and "Arcane Missiles" that are iconic and great introductions to the game. People take breaks from Hearthstone, and being able to jump right back in with a few cards you already own and understand makes that experience a lot better.
That upside has a real downside in working directly against the big goal for Standard. It needs to feel different each year, and if Basic and Classic cards are still appearing in large densities year after year, we will not be achieving our goals for Standard.
We knew we weren't going to get there when the Year of the Kraken began, so we nerfed 12 basic/classic cards, to put more of the weight of the meta into the rotating sets. We always knew we'd have to watch the meta to see if any future changes would be needed when we got ready for the next year of Standard. If things are looking like they are going to be too same-y for that next year, we could see more nerfs, or we might rotate some additional classic cards to Wild, like we did with Old Murk Eye. No matter what, we're committed to making Standard fresh and exciting each new year. (Source)
Are you guys considering, besides nerfs, implementing buffs for underused vanilla cards?
Given the goal of Standard is to keep the game fresh each year, it's important to keep a lot of the power of the cards in the expansions, and not in the basic and classic sets. It's not clear what that balance of power should look like (is it ~10 cards from the basic and classic sets on average?), but we're currently skewed so high towards basic and classic cards in decks, that we are at high risk for 'samey-ness' as the years change in Standard. Buffing Basic/Classic cards *increases* that risk. If the goal is to get more cool cards into the meta, just releasing awesome new cards in expansions should make an impact there, and still keep Standard fresh. (Source)
"If the team doesn't think enough will change, they have no issuies moving problematic cards out of the basic and classic sets." Gadgetzan just changed the meta 100%, Too much allready. That is just 1 stupid excuse to change the cards they want to change. Almost None of the deck's from before this meta can be played anymore, and they wanna do that AGAIN with the next patch as well allready? Too fast man. If they make any changes, make Control Warrior Great again!
If they want to do any changes, it could be to open up some new meta's. I miss the Days when we played only with the Classic Cards, with Naxxramas, GvG etc.. Open up so they fit in the decks again, without the new ones (but still keep all of this). Just Let us play some more then only Standard, Wild, or Arena.
if neutral cards move to wild, more players are going to play wild,
And that won't be good to Wild players (like me), because there possibly would be again many face decks (as I see Wild is only place where Hunter is playable) and it won't be good.
So true, I only play wild because of the always aggro meta in standard
And so do I. I haven't played on Standard for long time and I'm good with that.
"Releasing new cards is better than buffing cards from the classic and basic sets."
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
"it's important to keep a lot of the power of the cards in the expansions, and not in the basic and classic sets", says Brode. So, the (commercial) logic seems pretty clean: they want a meta substantially based on new cards (from expansion and adventures) instead of classic and basic cards that you ALREADY HAVE in your collection. So, you have aways to prepare your pocket, more than one time per year, if desires to stay tuned with the meta game and competitive play.
Well, if you don't want to play with new cards, why don't we just tell Blizzard to stop making expansions. We can just stick to the cards we have for the rest of the game, no changes ever again.
Booooooooring.
My point is: theres something that is never assumed by Brode or other devs, their true main "goal" as employees on business field, witch is KEEP THE SALES. The result is a speech full of rhetorical $hi..
off course I want to play new cards, expansions, adventures and stuff, but also want to see devs more careful with the REAL desires of theirs consu... I mean, community of players.
Sadly for us, it's not even once/year. As of now, we prepare out pockets twice since we're getting 1 expansion on April/May and another on December if they keep following that pattern. Now, if they do this... Imagine them increasing the size of new expansions which will mean we'll have to prepare our pockets even x2/x3 VS the amount we were spending now. I also agree with this, they never set realistic goals. First, they promise they'll keep the Classic set in Standard Mode and now are starting to run away from the idea thinking they can cash out on more users at the long run.
I understand there're a "couple" cards which should rotate out of Classic to push certain archetypes into a different style of play. However, doing this might render the archetype totally useless like Hunter & Paladin are now. I wouldn't mind saying bye to Gadgetzan Auctioneer which drastically dictates the playstyle of "X" deck. Just letting Blizzard know, you better don't start rotating Classic set cards each fucking damn rotation or you can start saying bye to my wallet. I'm not afraid to say that i've spent a decent amount to Golden out my Classic set throughout the years and listening to this is a punt directly to my nuts.
Love it. The fewer evergreen cards on the standard ladder, the better. I did an episode a while back where we analyzed just how many evergreen cards are in the top-tier decks (back when Old Gods had been the latest set) and it was startling. Over half of Tempo Mage, Control Warrior, Face Hunter, and like 7 other main decks consisted of classic cards.
Thumbs up.
That's fine and all. However, some of us players have dedicated to create our Golden Shiny Classic set since Ben Brode promised many months ago that'll be the only set that would not be touched. That way, at least you could guarantee you'd have certain Golden Staples for the rest of Standard Mode. Now, after 1 rotation, he decides it's time to start pushing "X" amount of Classic Cards out per cycle which means in maybe 5 years all our staples/legendaries will be out of our set as well. To me, it appears mostly as a screw up technique to cash up on players even more. Hell, at this rate they'll increase the cards to 200 per set and delete the Classic set.
As long as they don't start rotating Legendaries it'll be fine. At least, you're keeping the higher price value of cards in there. I understand they have to rotate certain cards which will change drastically the playstyle of "X" decks such as Miracle Rogue. Rotating Gadgetzan Auctioneer will not only kill Miracle Rogue once and for all but will most likely push other archetypes such as Deathrattle/Jade. However, they need to understand that if they do this, they'll need to find a way to keep those decks competitive. Take for example Hunter & Paladin, they totally ruined them this expansion and are not even close to the next tier of decks.
Well they said it, Classic and Standard cards are there for a reason. They are the core of the game. They are there from beginning to end. They need to stay this way so that new players can easily join and players returning from break can resume play. Now, if you want to shift this to MTG-like, I think I'd be okay with that. I play MTG and while yes, decks can be thousands of dollars, I think it's worth it because of how good the game is. Now, this is an electronic game so I won't and I doubt anyone else will, spend thousands of dollars on a deck, but I don't mind investing some money into it if I know it will be worth it. So I think that the free to start is still great. What if you made separate rooms/servers for new players? Those under a certain lv? Or even make it an option for them? They can play with other new people or see how they fair in regular ranked? I also know you will eventually run into problems as sets continue. We already all see it. Wild is where everything goes to die per say. It needs to be controlled or regulated just like Standard. In Wild, why not keep a ban list? While some people might not like it, neither do some people like it in MTG. But, they get over it, find a new deck, shift the meta, and keep playing. Always trying to find the new best deck while working around bans. I like it because it's more of a challenge in deckbuilding. To find a substitute or even completely new approach. So remove cards from basic/classic, I don't really like that. Balancing and reworking cards? Sure. Now, if you are hellbent on removing cards from those sets, I would definitely suggest re-adding new cards to it. Otherwise, the card pool shrinks and give new or free players less cards to use. Kinda long post, if you are still reading, thanks. What do you guys think? Active/rotating ban list in Wild? Do they need more rooms/play varients? (Like in MTG they have vintage, legacy, modern, standard, etc.) And what do you think of giving new players access to their own rooms?
Ban list is a good thing. Then you don't even need such ridiculous things as massive rotations and you can bring cards back or remove them as time goes. It's so simple, but it brings them less instantaneous money. It's as if they expect this game to die and try to milk it as much as possible before it dies (but in reality killing the game themselves as they've killed most of their titles already).
I know right! It's sad to see it in good games. Like I honestly see this game being around and still popular years in to the future. Hey, I know I'll still be playing it if it lives that long. But by doing stuff like what they've been doing, is killing the game.
Cards to be rotated out or removed from standard play
Neutral: Gadgetzan Auctioneer, Leeroy Jenkins, will be keeping Sylvanas Windrunner in because rogue doesn't use it that much
Rogue: Backstab, SI:7 Agent, Eviscerate, Fan of Knives, Edwin VanCleef, and make Blade Flurry cost 6 mana and only deal damage to 1 minion.
Shaman: Keep Totem Golem and Tunnel Trogg in rotation
Priest: None
Druid: Wrath, Swipe, Wild Growth
Warrior: Execute and Fiery War Axe
Warlock: None
Mage: None (because mage is always balanced)
Paladin: Bring back Shielded Minibot
Hunter: none
"Shaman: Keep Totem Golem and Tunnel Trogg in rotation"
Go fuck yourself
There is an invisible Kappa guys, calm down.
Wow this is joke right? I guess people don't understand satire. Rogue is my favorite class, this is a joke
:'(