Ben Brode: "We Might Rotate Some Additional Classic Cards to Wild"
Ben's been a busy guy lately! Mr. Brode took to the official forums to discuss the goals behind Standard and wanted to let everyone know that if the team doesn't think enough will change, they have no issues moving problematic cards out of the basic and classic sets.
- The ultimate goal is to keep Standard fresh every year.
- If the same Basic and Classic cards appear too frequently each year, that won't be them achieving their goal.
- Meta will always need to be watched to make plans for the next Standard year.
- Releasing new cards is better than buffing cards from the classic and basic sets.
You can join the discussion over on our forums, or leave a comment below to share your thoughts.
Quote from Ben BrodeThe goal with Standard is to keep the meta fresh for each yearly rotation. There are some benefits to keeping Basic and Classic cards in Standard: Returning players have an entry-point to the new format, and new players experience classics like "Hogger" and "Arcane Missiles" that are iconic and great introductions to the game. People take breaks from Hearthstone, and being able to jump right back in with a few cards you already own and understand makes that experience a lot better.
That upside has a real downside in working directly against the big goal for Standard. It needs to feel different each year, and if Basic and Classic cards are still appearing in large densities year after year, we will not be achieving our goals for Standard.
We knew we weren't going to get there when the Year of the Kraken began, so we nerfed 12 basic/classic cards, to put more of the weight of the meta into the rotating sets. We always knew we'd have to watch the meta to see if any future changes would be needed when we got ready for the next year of Standard. If things are looking like they are going to be too same-y for that next year, we could see more nerfs, or we might rotate some additional classic cards to Wild, like we did with Old Murk Eye. No matter what, we're committed to making Standard fresh and exciting each new year. (Source)
Are you guys considering, besides nerfs, implementing buffs for underused vanilla cards?
Given the goal of Standard is to keep the game fresh each year, it's important to keep a lot of the power of the cards in the expansions, and not in the basic and classic sets. It's not clear what that balance of power should look like (is it ~10 cards from the basic and classic sets on average?), but we're currently skewed so high towards basic and classic cards in decks, that we are at high risk for 'samey-ness' as the years change in Standard. Buffing Basic/Classic cards *increases* that risk. If the goal is to get more cool cards into the meta, just releasing awesome new cards in expansions should make an impact there, and still keep Standard fresh. (Source)
Thank you for the heads up.
Good leaders clarify and eliminate anxiety.
So, they nerfed that cards for nothing?
Handlock?
Control warrior was complained about a TON back in the day, nicknamed wallet warrior and whined about a ton.
Control priest has had complaints against it as well.
And that's three just off the top of my head, I'm sure there've been plenty more that have had complaints for that.
Also, it's not patches which is the big deal, but rather the buccanneer which does more.
Patches and Trogg aren't Classic.
This action will completely destroy Hearthstone. The most players will forget about this game. Absolutely crazy idea.
Hey good job on not overreacting to something that'll have a minimal impact. :)
they have to be very careful with what cards they rotate out of classic, it could kill entire archetypes. and the classic set is not the problem in almost every case
Meaning: We dont like the way our Pay2Win policy goes. We heard that some players dont pay anything and they are still able to play the game. People have been playing with the same classic cards where they dont need to pay again, so we are removing these cards and forcing them to buy new packs.
Maybe i shall give a try to the elder scrolls legends.
You're totally wrong. The Standard meta is decently distributed. We've a decent amount of Shaman (Aggro/Control) & Warrior (Pirate/Control). Also, but not the least, Reno (Mage/Priest/Warlock). Not enough? Maybe we should add Miracle Rogue to the equation. Also, but not the least, some Aviana Kun/Jade Druid(s) here and there. Take a look @ Vicious Syndicate reports and you might see the class distribution more wisely.
It seems to me that the cards in the expansions HAVE seen a lot of use in standard. C'thun decks were very important early on in the WOTG expansion. Regarding this new expansion, there are a TON of different deck types that I think are just waiting to be uncovered, but a lot of times players need time to collect the cards of the full collection before these decks start to surface. I've spent the last several days trying to make competitive grimy goons decks, but as a player on a budget I'm missing many important epics and legendaries to make find the successful experimental idea. I think the way to put the power into the expansions is to make the expansions include powerful cards that are powerful on their own that synergize with the classic cards as opposed to synergizing with each other...the same way that N'Zoth, the Corruptor did. Important cards that finish completing the synergies and gaps in grimy goons decks ie:Rat Pack, Sergeant Sally,Meanstreet Marshal,Fight Promoter,Knuckles,Wickerflame Burnbristle, have been passed over for crafting by the more casual players like myself forPatches the Pirate and Aya Blackpaw.
Sergeant Sallyin particular I think is the missing link that grimy goons decks need to give them a good shot against pirate decks, but nobody seems to have found a good use for her. I love the idea of utilizing her in my swap oriented enrage warrior deck.
Even cards likeUnlicensed Apothecary have huge untapped potential withViolet Illusionist. My big point is, it seems like a lot of the key cards are epics that not a lot of people have yet to experiment with. I think the expansions ARE powerful already, and I'm pleased with the way things are progressing.
Bye fiery war axe, you won't be missed.
If they touch my Sylvanas Windrunner, Azure Drake, Fireball, Ragnaros the Firelord, Bloodmage Thalnos, I am gonna flip
I've been using these cards for 3 years and I will NOT agree on letting it go.
They alread nerfed Sylvanas (5 mana to 6 mana) so she might be safe. Out of the ones you listed I think Azure Drake is the likeliest candidate. It sees tons of play in tons of decks and has way too much value for its cost. A nerf to 4/3 or 3/4 might be feasible.
Personally I'd like to see some of the top tier 1-2 drops nerfed and a general slowing down of the meta by a few turns by making the early game minions of aggressive classes less potent.
oh no not the Azure Drake! its my favorite card in the game by FAR!
It's not even that overpowered. It's just that draw cards are so damn rare in this game and good one is even rarer. So many classes that doesn't have good class draw cards or have warlock hero power really depends on this card for their deck to just function without running out of cards. So many current decks and future decks wouldn't be possible without this card.
Without Azure drake, what am I supposed to use? Cult Master and Polluted Hoarder?
I hate how they nerf cards like that. It completely changes the Wild format. I'd rather see a yearly base set released with changes made.
One year we could see some cards from older rotated sets come back into Standard through a new base set. Something like Glaivezooka would really help Hunter be more competitive right now, but would need to adopt a Pirate strategy.
Wild obviously isn't that popular now, but it will be in the future. That is unless they keep nerfing cards like Force of Nature. I'd like to see those cards untouched as Wild is supposed to be incredibly powerful. I play Magic IRL, and the older formats have an appeal to many players just because you can do broken and degenerate things. When everyone can do busted things, it makes it more fun.
I agree and I belive that each set sould have 10-15 broken cards amongst all classes so a couple years from now we'll b having a real modern format. Cheap damage minions card draw and removal that comletely out-classes stuff made in older expansions would really benefit the game... the problem here is that they only do that with the minions and that just pushes aggresive strategies and not defensive or combo oriented.
instead of nerfing the classic cards, how about making GOOD cards?? so that we would actually use most of them in our decks and only have ~10 classic cards. Since expansion cards get rotated out eventually, you guys don't care if its overpowered or not right?(patches)
Instead of taking away our choices, GIVE US MORE CHOICES
Yeah. They seem to release 90 cards in a set and then only 10 of those are playable, while others are "we must have bad cards" type of cards, aka bloat to milk money for people to buy more packs to get good cards. Thus they claim the classic is too strong. While in reality if they released more actually good cards instead of this moneymilking shit – they would have more diverse decks.
Some people don't see the bigger picture, just what's happening today........... :(