Mods, feel free to lock this thread if you think it is necessary, because It is not my intention to break any rules here, neither to discuss moderators actions (you know I respect you a lot mods :) ), but I'm curious about this. Toymachine has always been a very active member of this forum, but now I can't even access to his profile. What happened with him? Was he permanently banned or something?
I have never seen someone permanently banned from Hearthpwn, especially a user with so many posts, this is why I'm so curious about this, that is all.
Start of Year: Provoke the failure of 3 expansions, force nerfs on otherwise balanced cards, bring deckbuilding to an all-time low and get rotated one year earlier for being such a threat to the game's health. - Genn and Baku's historical entry on the White Book of Shit Design, shortly before retiring unpunished
Yeah, he left. Though he should have taken the forums less serious.
Less serious? How can one take hearthpwn seriously? Isn't this the hearthstone themed meme site with the occasional hearthstone news that rivals 9gag in dankness? What did i miss?
Honestly even the so called ''salt'' in this site is exaggerated. There more many many MANY more users talking about others being salty than actually salty members.
Yeah, he left. Though he should have taken the forums less serious.
Less serious? How can one take hearthpwn seriously? Isn't this the hearthstone themed meme site with the occasional hearthstone news that rivals 9gag in dankness? What did i miss?
Honestly even the so called ''salt'' in this site is exaggerated. There more many many MANY more users talking about others being salty than actually salty members.
Yeah, Hearthpwn is a great forum, but it is mostly a place to have fun while chatting with people all around the world about the game we all love (and sometimes we hate :P), that is all, don't take it seriously people. :)
I have him on my friend list in game, so thought I'd ask. (Once upon a time played a game against a familiar name, so I sent an invite and asked if he is the same guy.) So below you can find the answer from the man himself.
Insert the ** you are da real mvp** meme here.
As for our bruh Toymachine...wooow...His reason is actually legit!I hate those ''PLZ UPVOTE ME'' drama queens and those who actually upvote them too. I almost hate those f*ckers as much as nazis. Well almost :P.
''PLZ UPVOTE ME'' is one thing but asking for x votes before doing time consuming things like writing guides and videos sounds perfectly reasonable to me. No one wants to invest an hour making a write-up that no one is going to see
''PLZ UPVOTE ME'' is one thing but asking for x votes before doing time consuming things like writing guides and videos sounds perfectly reasonable to me. No one wants to invest an hour making a write-up that no one is going to see
Nope!Not and NO! Good decks with good guides should get the attention and attention should never be given to guide in order to become decent. This is just a sad excuse. I always make a full guide since the begining and i perfect it as much as i can.If i can't make good guide, i don't even bother posting the deck. And guess what all my decks have become popular with 3 of them being at the front page. I am by no means a pro, nor my decks are the god's gift to this game. So if i can do it, everyone can.
Hearthpwn isn't a deck attention competition, it's a site for anyone to share and find decklists. There's no prerequisites and there's no rule against posting lists without guides nor asking for upvotes. If you want to turn it into a personal competition to get lots of highly voted lists, that's fine- just don't expect everyone to be following your rules
The vote system isn't just for for measuring how well your posted deck did nor a reward for doing well. It's mainly for plebs who don't hearthstone as much as us to sort their way into good or interesting decks. In the case of people asking for votes before guides- it's a feedback mechanic on how many people even care. Perhaps some people are doing it to cheat out votes, but it's impossible to tell
Downvotes are for decks that you've personally tried and found underperforming. Maybe it wasn't as fun as advertised or maybe the winrate is shit. Maybe the mulligan guide is totally wrong. Disliking the author or punishing them for breaking self-imposed rules aren't valid reasons to downvote. That's why the mods were triggered
I have him on my friend list in game, so thought I'd ask. (Once upon a time played a game against a familiar name, so I sent an invite and asked if he is the same guy.) So below you can find the answer from the man himself.
Thank you very much for this, Windsofregnum! :)
Send my regards to Toymachine, he will be missed, as REALonrok already said. :(
''PLZ UPVOTE ME'' is one thing but asking for x votes before doing time consuming things like writing guides and videos sounds perfectly reasonable to me. No one wants to invest an hour making a write-up that no one is going to see
Nope!Not and NO! Good decks with good guides should get the attention and attention should never be given to guide in order to become decent. This is just a sad excuse. I always make a full guide since the begining and i perfect it as much as i can.If i can't make good guide, i don't even bother posting the deck. And guess what all my decks have become popular with 3 of them being at the front page. I am by no means a pro, nor my decks are the god's gift to this game. So if i can do it, everyone can.
I agree with this, except in some cases. For example, the only deck I made for this site is a Secret Paladin deck for the Wild Brawliseum (although I know you already know that jainaishot :P) using some cards from recent expansions, but I didn't make a guide for it. Why? Because I believe that making a guide for a Secret Pally deck (even if it uses some new cards) to these instances would be an insult to the intelligence of all hearthpwners, hehe. ;)
Hearthpwn isn't a deck attention competition, it's a site for anyone to share and find decklists. There's no prerequisites and there's no rule against posting lists without guides nor asking for upvotes. If you want to turn it into a personal competition to get lots of highly voted lists, that's fine- just don't expect everyone to be following your rules
The vote system isn't just for for measuring how well your posted deck did nor a reward for doing well. It's mainly for plebs who don't hearthstone as much as us to sort their way into good or interesting decks. In the case of people asking for votes before guides- it's a feedback mechanic on how many people even care. Perhaps some people are doing it to cheat out votes, but it's impossible to tell
Downvotes are for decks that you've personally tried and found underperforming. Maybe it wasn't as fun as advertised or maybe the winrate is shit. Maybe the mulligan guide is totally wrong. Disliking the author or punishing them for breaking self-imposed rules aren't valid reasons to downvote. That's why the mods were triggered
Well, there should be rules for people asking for upvotes, because yeah, they are trying to cheat out votes, it is 100% obvious. Why? Because they have the option to do a guide after people upvoting their decks several times without begging for a fixed amount of positive votes, it is as simple as that. If several users upvote their decks, they already know players are interesting on them, there is no reason to ask people for more votes.
I enjoyed ToyMachine's work, especially his Hunter decks and he did do a LOT for this community but there's a little bit if "railing against the man" here. Managing a community like this is a (very) thankless task and it's very easy to be an armchair critic. I see regular posters here but toxic? That's a strong word.
I hope he comes back.
And the votes thing? Man, that's an interesting one. If I like a deck, I'll upvote it, if not, I'll just leave it. I've no problems with people like KiwiNBacon or Stan Cifka asking for votes because of the volume / quality of their work, which I'd like to support. A general Billy No Mates asking for votes before posting a guide, I may look poorly on as the author is an unknown quantity.
Honestly, if you don't want people to downvote decks then remove the button. You can't force someone not to dislike something or to indicate that when there is a button expressly created for that purpose. Might as well put a giant red button there with a sign that says "Don't press this button."
Would you ask someone to stop liking things so much?
I have him on my friend list in game, so thought I'd ask. (Once upon a time played a game against a familiar name, so I sent an invite and asked if he is the same guy.) So below you can find the answer from the man himself.
Re: me being name-dropped.
It wasn't that he should "stop disliking decks" just that he should stop doing it in the huge quantities he was doing it. There's something seriously wrong when you spend your day tanking legitimate content on the site. Others have been warned for the exact same thing in the past and I have no problems warning others about it in the future.
He certainly brought up legitimate problems we have here on the site, but he should have done that to begin with. Not only is my inbox always open, but every thread gets read in the site feedback forums so there's really no excuse for not sharing your feedback.
The following is the exact list of issues Toymachine brought up.
People beg for likes
Saying rank without any proof or anything
They post unreal win rates just to get more views, usually without proof
They have other means of finishing for likes
They post exact same top tier meta decks without ANY form of guide at least or anything changed at all
They change a single card in top tier deck to appear "unique" and even name a deck after that (examples of this were Snowflipper Face Druid - top tier aggro druid with shoved in one Snowflipper to stand out?) Or for example "Trafficker Zoolock" from that girl streamer - top tier Keleseth/Tempo Zoolock with shoved in Trafficker to make the deck worse and she named the deck after it to appear unique and original?
They post decks that are either objectively very bad or that I personally believe so - either way that's a downvote from me. I know how many times when I started I crafted a deck that didn't work and how much dust I wasted based on upvotes that mislead me of believing it is good.
The begging, yes, it's stupid. However, we've made a compromise on this (its been in our rules a while) that I feel is incredibly fair. If people want to ask for likes, they need to include a partial guide so we're at least getting content. It's incredibly shitty for someone to work on a huge detailed guide and it never gets to see the light of day so likes is a decent way to gauge interest.
We've actually got an upcoming feature that I hope will end up helping people find decks that are worth writing guides for. Our initial version of it is very close to completion and then we'll have the feature out on the live site. I'm not saying anything else!
We could seriously crack down on the "no proof" people whether that is their ranking with the deck or winrate, but we need to get decks reportable first. It's something I've got written down to look into implementing now that I'm actually able to contribute to the code side of the site, so hopefully, its sooner rather than later. It would be great if more users on Windows adopted Innkeeper, it would let us collect data on deck winrates which could be of great use to put these claims to rest.
Once we get things reportable, these are the things I want to target with new types of warnings and/or removals.
Proof of rank required if you're going to state it.
If posting win-rates, proof is required.
Enforcing the "Request for upvotes" more heavily.
It may end up requiring more humans moderating stuff. If that's the case, we'll open up another wave of recruitment, likely specifically targeting people who like to sift through decks. We don't have anyone dedicated to that and I know we have people on the site already that go through lots of them. We could leverage that power in more ways than just the negative - they'd also be great at finding stuff we could highlight.
Decks "Appearing [to be] unique" is a non-issue. If it works, it works. I don't care if you're playing basic zoo lock but somehow made insert random card here work with the deck. If people like it, there's no problems with that deck being at the top. Ultimately, there's not a ton of very good decks in Hearthstone anyway so you're going to see a lot of the same ideas repeated. We will solve discoverability of good decks though in our upcoming update, so I think this becomes even more of a non-issue.
Honestly, if you don't want people to downvote decks then remove the button. You can't force someone not to dislike something or to indicate that when there is a button expressly created for that purpose. Might as well put a giant red button there with a sign that says "Don't press this button."
Would you ask someone to stop liking things so much?
There's definitely a difference. If you come across stuff that straight up sucks, it deserves a downvote.
If you go down a list of decks and downvote them all, that's not right. A while back on HeroesNexus, our now gone Heroes of the Storm site, we actually had this problem where 4 people went around downvoting every single build on the site that didn't include a guide. It's not right to discriminate like that, and it was especially a problem when we didn't have a large userbase interacting with those builds. Due to the low amount of them, we actually had negatively voted stuff show up on the front page once or twice and the entire builds page was a sea of red. If people see that kind of stuff, they aren't going to want to contribute their own stuff to the site because it appears to be a waste of time.
We certainly don't have that much of a problem on HearthPwn because we have such a large userbase, but there are times where we'll post a collection of well-performing decks, and the same 3 or 4 people are caught downvoting all of them. If they get in early, all the decks appear to be "shit-tier" and people will ignore them and possibly contribute negatively as well.
I would much rather not need to have rules against it, but a few people just love to ruin things. Anyone using the site normally shouldn't need to worry about it.
Also, it's better to encourage mass positivity than negativity.
Nope!Not and NO! Good decks with good guides should get the attention and attention should never be given to guide in order to become decent. This is just a sad excuse. I always make a full guide since the begining and i perfect it as much as i can.If i can't make good guide, i don't even bother posting the deck. And guess what all my decks have become popular with 3 of them being at the front page. I am by no means a pro, nor my decks are the god's gift to this game. So if i can do it, everyone can.
You're an example of what we really like to see and I wish more people would do it. Thank you.
I agree with this, except in some cases. For example, the only deck I made for this site is a Secret Paladin deck for the Wild Brawliseum (although I know you already know that jainaishot :P) using some cards from recent expansions, but I didn't make a guide for it. Why? Because I believe that making a guide for a Secret Pally deck (even if it uses some new cards) to these instances would be an insult to the intelligence of all hearthpwners, hehe. ;)
Including something, even basic is always a good idea. There are legitimately people who don't play every class in the game and may not know a detail that is more obvious to a veteran of the class or game. We've got people from all walks of life on the site thanks to being the largest Hearthstone netdecking site on this site of the world, guides can help!
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Mods, feel free to lock this thread if you think it is necessary, because It is not my intention to break any rules here, neither to discuss moderators actions (you know I respect you a lot mods :) ), but I'm curious about this. Toymachine has always been a very active member of this forum, but now I can't even access to his profile. What happened with him? Was he permanently banned or something?
I have never seen someone permanently banned from Hearthpwn, especially a user with so many posts, this is why I'm so curious about this, that is all.
Huh... I did not notice until now.
Start of Year: Provoke the failure of 3 expansions, force nerfs on otherwise balanced cards, bring deckbuilding to an all-time low and get rotated one year earlier for being such a threat to the game's health.
- Genn and Baku's historical entry on the White Book of Shit Design, shortly before retiring unpunished
He was probably like
and left hearthpwn
He died of AIDS. Kidding, but he actually overdosed from the toxicity of these forums.
Yeah, he left. Though he should have taken the forums less serious.
maybe he merged his curse account with another twitch account, so it dissapeared.
Even the pm we had desapeared! :/
You will be missed !
''PLZ UPVOTE ME'' is one thing but asking for x votes before doing time consuming things like writing guides and videos sounds perfectly reasonable to me. No one wants to invest an hour making a write-up that no one is going to see
Legend with : S65 Freeze Mage, S57 Maly Gonk Druid, S57 "Okay" Shaman, S53 Boom-zooka Hunter, S53 Maly Tog Druid, S52 Wild Tog Druid ft.Blingtron, S50 Quest Rogue, S49 Dead Man's Warrior, S41 Wild Clown Fiesta Druid, S41 Hadronox Jade Druid, S40 Wild OTK Dragon Druid, S35 SMOrc Shaman, S33 Jade Druid, S22 Control Priest, S19 Control Priest
Now who's taking Hearthpwn too seriously? ;)
Hearthpwn isn't a deck attention competition, it's a site for anyone to share and find decklists. There's no prerequisites and there's no rule against posting lists without guides nor asking for upvotes. If you want to turn it into a personal competition to get lots of highly voted lists, that's fine- just don't expect everyone to be following your rules
The vote system isn't just for for measuring how well your posted deck did nor a reward for doing well. It's mainly for plebs who don't hearthstone as much as us to sort their way into good or interesting decks. In the case of people asking for votes before guides- it's a feedback mechanic on how many people even care. Perhaps some people are doing it to cheat out votes, but it's impossible to tell
Downvotes are for decks that you've personally tried and found underperforming. Maybe it wasn't as fun as advertised or maybe the winrate is shit. Maybe the mulligan guide is totally wrong. Disliking the author or punishing them for breaking self-imposed rules aren't valid reasons to downvote. That's why the mods were triggered
Legend with : S65 Freeze Mage, S57 Maly Gonk Druid, S57 "Okay" Shaman, S53 Boom-zooka Hunter, S53 Maly Tog Druid, S52 Wild Tog Druid ft.Blingtron, S50 Quest Rogue, S49 Dead Man's Warrior, S41 Wild Clown Fiesta Druid, S41 Hadronox Jade Druid, S40 Wild OTK Dragon Druid, S35 SMOrc Shaman, S33 Jade Druid, S22 Control Priest, S19 Control Priest
I enjoyed ToyMachine's work, especially his Hunter decks and he did do a LOT for this community but there's a little bit if "railing against the man" here. Managing a community like this is a (very) thankless task and it's very easy to be an armchair critic. I see regular posters here but toxic? That's a strong word.
I hope he comes back.
And the votes thing? Man, that's an interesting one. If I like a deck, I'll upvote it, if not, I'll just leave it. I've no problems with people like KiwiNBacon or Stan Cifka asking for votes because of the volume / quality of their work, which I'd like to support. A general Billy No Mates asking for votes before posting a guide, I may look poorly on as the author is an unknown quantity.
Golden Hero Collections thus far; -
Europe: Druid, Hunter, Paladin, Mage, Priest, Rogue, Shaman, Warlock, Warrior (9/9)
Americas: Druid, Mage, Paladin Shaman (4/9)
Everywhere else: Workin on it.. (0/9)
Honestly, if you don't want people to downvote decks then remove the button. You can't force someone not to dislike something or to indicate that when there is a button expressly created for that purpose. Might as well put a giant red button there with a sign that says "Don't press this button."
Would you ask someone to stop liking things so much?
It may end up requiring more humans moderating stuff. If that's the case, we'll open up another wave of recruitment, likely specifically targeting people who like to sift through decks. We don't have anyone dedicated to that and I know we have people on the site already that go through lots of them. We could leverage that power in more ways than just the negative - they'd also be great at finding stuff we could highlight.
Decks "Appearing [to be] unique" is a non-issue. If it works, it works. I don't care if you're playing basic zoo lock but somehow made insert random card here work with the deck. If people like it, there's no problems with that deck being at the top. Ultimately, there's not a ton of very good decks in Hearthstone anyway so you're going to see a lot of the same ideas repeated. We will solve discoverability of good decks though in our upcoming update, so I think this becomes even more of a non-issue.
Just replying to a few people directly to make sure they get notified of it ^^
I've covered some of this already.