Been playing since the beta. What I get the most pleasure from in games is the back-and-forth of a dynamic game state. What I hate, more than anything, is that flavour of stale control deck that just blocks, blocks, blocks until it can pull off some killer combo.
So you can probably guess how I feel about Highlander decks.
I was pretty worried by them coming back into the game, and now my worst fears have been realised. There's a decent mix of decks around, but a significant proportion of what I'm facing is tedious, tiresome games that I really don't enjoy. Wild is even worse, now, because the already awful Reno decks just got a bunch of new toys to torment me with.
The only counterpoint I can see right now is running some mega-aggro deck, like Murloc Pally or Zoolock. Trouble is, I also like collecting golden heroes, and I've got gold in both those classes. So I'm not really motivated to try either of those.
I feel like I'm on the verge of giving up the game I've loved for so long. I don't particularly enjoy Arena play, so I can't switch game modes. I guess I could run a hard counter to Highlander but I don't know if there is such a deck, or whether it's competitive. Any suggestions to help keep me motivated?
Well, as you surmised, the best option if you want consistent improvement against combo decks is to look at fast, aggro decks. I realise that this isn't what you are specifically after, but it helps to be aware of the Rock Paper Scissors format that Hearthstone (and other games) employs. In particular, Aggro is best against Combo, Combo best against Control and Control best against Aggro.
That said, if you are determined to stick with your control deck and looking for tools against Combo decks, while you may remain unfavoured in the matchup, the best options you have are to look for tools that allow you to disrupt the opponent's combo in some form (such as the 6/9 beast that Hunter got which pulls out a card from the opponent's hand and fights it, or the Duel card for Paladin which summons a minion from each deck and battles them - that sort of thing).
The other thing to try / aim for, is to be aware of what sort of stage the opponent is at in terms of getting their combo ready and put the pressure on them to beat them before it happens. The last thing you want to do is to sit back and give them time.
If you're playing something uber-slow like Control Warrior, then forget it. Accept this matchup is never going to be fun for you, I'm afraid; your whole game plan revolves around stalling the opponent and getting to the endgame / fatigue. By that point, their combo will have happened and you're probably dead, I'm afraid.
I don't understand your problem. The current Higlander decks in standard are in no way opressive or close out certain playstyles. Which specific deck would you want to play that get shuts down by which highlander decks, if I may ask?
Well, as you surmised, the best option if you want consistent improvement against combo decks is to look at fast, aggro decks. ....
That said, if you are determined to stick with your control deck and looking for tools against Combo decks
Thanks for confirming. Because I like dynamic games, my preference has generally been for mid-range decks. For most of the last expansion, I settled with Bomb Hunter, which had the kind of flexible toolkit I like to work with, able to handle different circumstances with creative plays. But although it's still competitive, it's not great vs Highlander decks and I just find those games a misery.
I don't understand your problem. The current Higlander decks in standard are in no way opressive or close out certain playstyles. Which specific deck would you want to play that get shuts down by which highlander decks, if I may ask?
Not suggesting they're oppressive or OP: this is a personal thing. I don't *enjoy* grinding out games against them, and right now they're a very significant portion of the meta. I'm wondering if there's anything I can do to try and make games against them more fun again, or whether there's a good counter/aggro option that isn't Paladin or Warlock.
Outside of Zephrys and the other singleton cards, how does the experience of playing against a Reno deck differ from the experience of playing against any other deck that failed to draw its second copy of each card?
Outside of Zephrys and the other singleton cards, how does the experience of playing against a Reno deck differ from the experience of playing against any other deck that failed to draw its second copy of each card?
Because Highlander/Reno decks are built to handle that contingency. And the only way to handle that contingency is to play a very defensive game, relying on cards that generate health, armour, taunt, board wipes and other stalling effects to draw the game out as long as possible while you wait to assemble your super-powerful card hand.
It's not unique to Highlander. Most OTK decks work on the same principle and are equally hateful to me. But until Uldum that style of play had been largely sidelined since the big rotation. Now it's back.
Been playing since the beta. What I get the most pleasure from in games is the back-and-forth of a dynamic game state. What I hate, more than anything, is that flavour of stale control deck that just blocks, blocks, blocks until it can pull off some killer combo.
So you can probably guess how I feel about Highlander decks.
I was pretty worried by them coming back into the game, and now my worst fears have been realised. There's a decent mix of decks around, but a significant proportion of what I'm facing is tedious, tiresome games that I really don't enjoy. Wild is even worse, now, because the already awful Reno decks just got a bunch of new toys to torment me with.
The only counterpoint I can see right now is running some mega-aggro deck, like Murloc Pally or Zoolock. Trouble is, I also like collecting golden heroes, and I've got gold in both those classes. So I'm not really motivated to try either of those.
I feel like I'm on the verge of giving up the game I've loved for so long. I don't particularly enjoy Arena play, so I can't switch game modes. I guess I could run a hard counter to Highlander but I don't know if there is such a deck, or whether it's competitive. Any suggestions to help keep me motivated
You write "Been playing since the beta. What I get the most pleasure from in games is the back-and-forth of a dynamic game state"
Highlander is just that! Control/bomb/taunt warrior is not. How can you not see that?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Strive for constant improvement and achieve your full potential.
You write "Been playing since the beta. What I get the most pleasure from in games is the back-and-forth of a dynamic game state"
Highlander is just that! Control/bomb/taunt warrior is not. How can you not see that?
I'm not having much fun against those warrior decks, either. I'm just seeing them a lot less.
Just played a game against Highlander Mage. It pulled up an Ice Barrier. Then wiped my board, twice (once using Reno the Relicologist). Then used Doomsayer to rob me of a productive turn. Then stalled and healed up with Khartut Defender. Then slapped down Khadgar and Power of Creation to summon four 5/12 Taunts.
There wasn't a single trade in the whole game. Just face. Where's the back-and-forth?
I do kind of wish folk would stop trying to argue with my premise here. It's a personal thing. I'm not making some definitive statement about this being broken or that being overpowered or Blizzard must do whatever to make the game better for meeeee. I'm saying: I, personally, am not enjoying the style of the current meta: what can I, personally, do to get out of that rut?
This smacks a little of someone who has spent too long relying on Hearthpwn to build decks for them and has forgotten how to do it for themselves. There's a ton of options out there to come up with a deck that does what you want right now. Want to specifically dumpster highlander? Hakkar and/ or bomb warrior are your friends. Want quick games (outside of pally/ warlock)? Come up with an aggro/ midrange hunter that works for what you're up against or try murloc shaman. Want something new and interesting? Try out any of the quests you haven't used yet (except the paladin one, that one's lame af). Something with a high winrate? As of right now quest druid has a 65% winrate on metastats. Something with extremely varied games? Burgle rogue is still a big ball of shenanigans. Or if that's not novel enough how about trying to utilise some more tricky cards like Mogu Cultist or Desert Obelisk in some way.
My personal recommendation would be small spell/ quest mage, I'm finding it extremely entertaining even if it isn't super powerful. The list I'm running has about 10 minions primarily for value generation when you cast spells (plus Sorcerer's Apprentices) and then the rest is cheap spells which makes it very possible to set up some absurd swing turns with a little planning. The options are out there, you just need to decide which aspects of HS are most important to you and focus on decks which play to that or, if they don't exist, try experimenting a little and making something of your own. We're too early in the xpac to assume all the best decks have already been found/ perfected.
If there weren't any sort of combo decks right now (which, IMO, are still weak in the current meta), you would be even more bored as facing even more control warriors (which I encounter much more frequently in my matche, compared to singleton decks).
Highlander decks are the most fun thing in a long time for now. You might wanna try playing something else than god damned bomb hunter and it is quite possible you will find the joy in no time.
Yeah this is a good time to not care too much about ladder rank or match ups and just have fun with new cards and crazy deck ideas. The meta will settle in a few weeks and then everyone will be playing the card-for-card same 4 decks that are considered "the best" and 90% of the cards from the new set will be forever discarded from competitive play.
Thief rogue is super good times right now. Strong enough to be competitive but every single game is different because of the thief cards (which are good now!). Ripping timeout off of henchclan burglar vs. aggro and then playing Tess the next turn is GOOD TIMES :D
Just what decks is the OP using that is flunking against Highlander decks?
And long games, hell I welcome that. Sure, there's King Phaoris BS, Conjurer's Calling and the occasional out of control Shudderwock play or Inner Fire crap, but a much better game than any Silver Hand Paladin of last year, murloc shaman or druid tree garbage of today.
I just beat Quest Paladin with Big Paladin, and it was the grindiest game I've been in a LONG TIME. Apparently getting six full health Damaged Stegodons via Vargoth+Kangor's Endless Army shenanigans (there was a rez secret that spawned a third Stego) was the play of the game, ruining his mummy farm, but then I had to cope with him sticking every taunt, reborn and egg counter coming off his top deck. I easily could've lost if I played the wrong spell or didn't take a risk with a sword hit; at one point I had 4 health. One stegodon made it to the end.
As for Highlander, I've played once with mage, and didn't even get to play my singleton legendaries. Made a Zoo Warlock rage quit when he got suckered into playing everything into a blizzard +2 spell damage play and giving me an 8/4 sea giant to add to the casualty list when he lackey rushed into a minion of mine moments before. Who needs Reno or Zephrys to win in Highlander when you got aggro decks and the idiots who play them?
It's a deck that seeks to control the early game, then play it's main threats (bomb generators) at around th 3-7 mana mark, and then seeks to win by attrition and repeated damage over an extended period. That's pretty much the definition of Bomb Warrior.
Been playing since the beta. What I get the most pleasure from in games is the back-and-forth of a dynamic game state. What I hate, more than anything, is that flavour of stale control deck that just blocks, blocks, blocks until it can pull off some killer combo.
So you can probably guess how I feel about Highlander decks.
I was pretty worried by them coming back into the game, and now my worst fears have been realised. There's a decent mix of decks around, but a significant proportion of what I'm facing is tedious, tiresome games that I really don't enjoy. Wild is even worse, now, because the already awful Reno decks just got a bunch of new toys to torment me with.
The only counterpoint I can see right now is running some mega-aggro deck, like Murloc Pally or Zoolock. Trouble is, I also like collecting golden heroes, and I've got gold in both those classes. So I'm not really motivated to try either of those.
I feel like I'm on the verge of giving up the game I've loved for so long. I don't particularly enjoy Arena play, so I can't switch game modes. I guess I could run a hard counter to Highlander but I don't know if there is such a deck, or whether it's competitive. Any suggestions to help keep me motivated?
Well, as you surmised, the best option if you want consistent improvement against combo decks is to look at fast, aggro decks.
I realise that this isn't what you are specifically after, but it helps to be aware of the Rock Paper Scissors format that Hearthstone (and other games) employs.
In particular, Aggro is best against Combo, Combo best against Control and Control best against Aggro.
That said, if you are determined to stick with your control deck and looking for tools against Combo decks, while you may remain unfavoured in the matchup, the best options you have are to look for tools that allow you to disrupt the opponent's combo in some form (such as the 6/9 beast that Hunter got which pulls out a card from the opponent's hand and fights it, or the Duel card for Paladin which summons a minion from each deck and battles them - that sort of thing).
The other thing to try / aim for, is to be aware of what sort of stage the opponent is at in terms of getting their combo ready and put the pressure on them to beat them before it happens. The last thing you want to do is to sit back and give them time.
If you're playing something uber-slow like Control Warrior, then forget it. Accept this matchup is never going to be fun for you, I'm afraid; your whole game plan revolves around stalling the opponent and getting to the endgame / fatigue. By that point, their combo will have happened and you're probably dead, I'm afraid.
I don't understand your problem. The current Higlander decks in standard are in no way opressive or close out certain playstyles. Which specific deck would you want to play that get shuts down by which highlander decks, if I may ask?
Thanks for confirming. Because I like dynamic games, my preference has generally been for mid-range decks. For most of the last expansion, I settled with Bomb Hunter, which had the kind of flexible toolkit I like to work with, able to handle different circumstances with creative plays. But although it's still competitive, it's not great vs Highlander decks and I just find those games a misery.
Not suggesting they're oppressive or OP: this is a personal thing. I don't *enjoy* grinding out games against them, and right now they're a very significant portion of the meta. I'm wondering if there's anything I can do to try and make games against them more fun again, or whether there's a good counter/aggro option that isn't Paladin or Warlock.
Outside of Zephrys and the other singleton cards, how does the experience of playing against a Reno deck differ from the experience of playing against any other deck that failed to draw its second copy of each card?
Because Highlander/Reno decks are built to handle that contingency. And the only way to handle that contingency is to play a very defensive game, relying on cards that generate health, armour, taunt, board wipes and other stalling effects to draw the game out as long as possible while you wait to assemble your super-powerful card hand.
It's not unique to Highlander. Most OTK decks work on the same principle and are equally hateful to me. But until Uldum that style of play had been largely sidelined since the big rotation. Now it's back.
Highlander is the best Hearthstone has.
Playing since beta too and current HS is very fun for me (exept maybe games vs ctrl war).
Singetons are the best archetype, coz paired with discover cards and some other random it results in every game to be different that previous.
Some tune for standart warrior and all be happy:D
You write "Been playing since the beta. What I get the most pleasure from in games is the back-and-forth of a dynamic game state"
Highlander is just that! Control/bomb/taunt warrior is not. How can you not see that?
Strive for constant improvement and achieve your full potential.
I'm not having much fun against those warrior decks, either. I'm just seeing them a lot less.
Just played a game against Highlander Mage. It pulled up an Ice Barrier. Then wiped my board, twice (once using Reno the Relicologist). Then used Doomsayer to rob me of a productive turn. Then stalled and healed up with Khartut Defender. Then slapped down Khadgar and Power of Creation to summon four 5/12 Taunts.
There wasn't a single trade in the whole game. Just face. Where's the back-and-forth?
I do kind of wish folk would stop trying to argue with my premise here. It's a personal thing. I'm not making some definitive statement about this being broken or that being overpowered or Blizzard must do whatever to make the game better for meeeee. I'm saying: I, personally, am not enjoying the style of the current meta: what can I, personally, do to get out of that rut?
This smacks a little of someone who has spent too long relying on Hearthpwn to build decks for them and has forgotten how to do it for themselves. There's a ton of options out there to come up with a deck that does what you want right now. Want to specifically dumpster highlander? Hakkar and/ or bomb warrior are your friends. Want quick games (outside of pally/ warlock)? Come up with an aggro/ midrange hunter that works for what you're up against or try murloc shaman. Want something new and interesting? Try out any of the quests you haven't used yet (except the paladin one, that one's lame af). Something with a high winrate? As of right now quest druid has a 65% winrate on metastats. Something with extremely varied games? Burgle rogue is still a big ball of shenanigans. Or if that's not novel enough how about trying to utilise some more tricky cards like Mogu Cultist or Desert Obelisk in some way.
My personal recommendation would be small spell/ quest mage, I'm finding it extremely entertaining even if it isn't super powerful. The list I'm running has about 10 minions primarily for value generation when you cast spells (plus Sorcerer's Apprentices) and then the rest is cheap spells which makes it very possible to set up some absurd swing turns with a little planning. The options are out there, you just need to decide which aspects of HS are most important to you and focus on decks which play to that or, if they don't exist, try experimenting a little and making something of your own. We're too early in the xpac to assume all the best decks have already been found/ perfected.
If there weren't any sort of combo decks right now (which, IMO, are still weak in the current meta), you would be even more bored as facing even more control warriors (which I encounter much more frequently in my matche, compared to singleton decks).
Haha, that's fair. You could say I've been Hearthpwned, even ;)
Thanks for the suggestions though, I'll give them a try. Maybe it'll even reignite my interest in building decks.
In all of this I'm shocked he's cool with playing bomb control warrior and not highlander decks
Highlander decks are the most fun thing in a long time for now. You might wanna try playing something else than god damned bomb hunter and it is quite possible you will find the joy in no time.
Yeah this is a good time to not care too much about ladder rank or match ups and just have fun with new cards and crazy deck ideas. The meta will settle in a few weeks and then everyone will be playing the card-for-card same 4 decks that are considered "the best" and 90% of the cards from the new set will be forever discarded from competitive play.
Thief rogue is super good times right now. Strong enough to be competitive but every single game is different because of the thief cards (which are good now!). Ripping timeout off of henchclan burglar vs. aggro and then playing Tess the next turn is GOOD TIMES :D
Ibn Fahd.
All I want to know is ...
Just what decks is the OP using that is flunking against Highlander decks?
And long games, hell I welcome that. Sure, there's King Phaoris BS, Conjurer's Calling and the occasional out of control Shudderwock play or Inner Fire crap, but a much better game than any Silver Hand Paladin of last year, murloc shaman or druid tree garbage of today.
I just beat Quest Paladin with Big Paladin, and it was the grindiest game I've been in a LONG TIME. Apparently getting six full health Damaged Stegodons via Vargoth+Kangor's Endless Army shenanigans (there was a rez secret that spawned a third Stego) was the play of the game, ruining his mummy farm, but then I had to cope with him sticking every taunt, reborn and egg counter coming off his top deck. I easily could've lost if I played the wrong spell or didn't take a risk with a sword hit; at one point I had 4 health. One stegodon made it to the end.
As for Highlander, I've played once with mage, and didn't even get to play my singleton legendaries. Made a Zoo Warlock rage quit when he got suckered into playing everything into a blizzard +2 spell damage play and giving me an 8/4 sea giant to add to the casualty list when he lackey rushed into a minion of mine moments before. Who needs Reno or Zephrys to win in Highlander when you got aggro decks and the idiots who play them?
You consider Bomb Hunter to be Midrange?.....Ok
Solution: if you encounter a highlander deck, concede and look for another opponent. Don’t be that crying kid who goes on with eating the cactus.
And if you care about winning, just quit the game as Highlander decks are here to stay. As simple as that.
Going by the Hearthstone definition of a midrange / tempo deck, that's fairly accurate:
https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Midrange_deck
https://hearthstone.gamepedia.com/Bomb_Warrior
It's a deck that seeks to control the early game, then play it's main threats (bomb generators) at around th 3-7 mana mark, and then seeks to win by attrition and repeated damage over an extended period.
That's pretty much the definition of Bomb Warrior.