Ive been a rogue main since I started back in WotOG, and have taken the occasional break here and there. Something I’ve noticed is it seems like rogue has always been decent.
Has there ever been a meta where rogue wasn’t relevent? By relevant i guess at least tier 2 (maybe 3?) would be a good way to evaluate the viability.
BTW, I’m 30 wins away from my first golden hero, which happens to be rogue! I would have had it long ago but I didn’t realize casual didn’t count toward the portrait until much later lol! Looking forward to it.
It's because Rogue's core set is really strong. Miracle Rogue will always be a thing no matter what expansion because Rogue's core cards are mainly classic.
I don't think thats necessarily a bad thing, assuming the ultimate goal is to have all classes see almost equal play. I think a major reason rogue is relevant is because its geared towards punishing control-tools like Sap and Vilespine Slayer are just good at removing things quickly and efficiently with almost no downside.
It’s foo because auctioneer is classic and the rogue classic and basic cards are like backstab, prep, eviscerate, sap, fan of knives, and things like that that keep it good enough to out tempo control and out control tempo.
My memory is a little hazy, but I believe right after the Blade Flurry and Azure Drake nerfs, Rogue was at its worst state. Even then I remember rogue still being pretty good.
When I started, after BRD, oil rogue was good, but it fell to tier 3ish and stayed there through all of ToC, and it was the best rogue archtype. League of explorers revitalized miracle rogue, with tomb pillager, and it was great for a while, during WotOG, rogue sort of fell down to tier 2/3 again (heavily punished by zoo and aggro shaman) , and became rather poor in Kara when shamanatone was all the rage, still tier 3 mind you. Then mean streets came out and rogue has pretty much always had a tier 1 or 2 deck from that moment on. There was a time between frozen thrones release and the nerfs that rogue was tier 3, but that's kind of misleading since tempo rogue was actually a thing, but no one really bothered to develop it to the tier 1 deck it eventually became until after the nerfs.
As for other classes, Druid has always had atleat l a tier 2 deck. Warlock generally has a tier 2 or better deck, but there was a pretty large stretch of time, after Reno rotated until Kubelocks and catacombs that zoo was pretty Garbo and control warlock wasn't a thing. Warrior also has been a historic power house, until the war axe Nerf, it always had a tier 1 or 2 decks.
Rogue is just the ultimate value & tempo class, because of the hero power and combo mechanics, which means it will always do well and be competitive even with a relatively weak set of rotating cards. It's a trade-off with a slightly higher skill level required to play most archetypes. Back in ONiK, Miracle Rogue was a mathematical mind's wunderclass; you could pull off insane, and I mean INSANE turn 6 combos with Arcane Giant and ginormous Edwin VanCleef or shave 90% of your opponent's health and fill your hand for lethal with a few clever bounces. I remember getting something like 28 mana of value even on turn 5 in some games.
Has any other class been viable in virtually every meta other than rogue?
Warlock
Druid
warlock wasn't considered a class in unguru.
Rogue wasn't that strong in gvg, oil rogue was a thing but it wss tier 3, also in karazhan rogue was quite weak.
druid had absolutely no weak meta (at least a tier 2 deck) the weakest he wss was ironically in msog jade druid just wasn't strong enough to fend the aggro decks before the nerfs
Rogues are blessed by a broken core set. And cursed by it, too....
Every time new mechanic is introduced Rogues gets one of the worst version of that: spirits\echo\spellstones\deathknights (good in some decks with non-standard game plans but as standalone card Valeera is the worst), quests (OK, not every time but that was an accident), jade golems... And yet rogues stay on top.
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Ive been a rogue main since I started back in WotOG, and have taken the occasional break here and there. Something I’ve noticed is it seems like rogue has always been decent.
Has there ever been a meta where rogue wasn’t relevent? By relevant i guess at least tier 2 (maybe 3?) would be a good way to evaluate the viability.
BTW, I’m 30 wins away from my first golden hero, which happens to be rogue! I would have had it long ago but I didn’t realize casual didn’t count toward the portrait until much later lol! Looking forward to it.
It's because Rogue's core set is really strong. Miracle Rogue will always be a thing no matter what expansion because Rogue's core cards are mainly classic.
I don't think thats necessarily a bad thing, assuming the ultimate goal is to have all classes see almost equal play. I think a major reason rogue is relevant is because its geared towards punishing control-tools like Sap and Vilespine Slayer are just good at removing things quickly and efficiently with almost no downside.
Unpopular opinion: Rogue is OP
Has any other class been viable in virtually every meta other than rogue?
Warlock
Druid
Druid since Day 1. I've played since S10 but even since beta.
It’s foo because auctioneer is classic and the rogue classic and basic cards are like backstab, prep, eviscerate, sap, fan of knives, and things like that that keep it good enough to out tempo control and out control tempo.
My memory is a little hazy, but I believe right after the Blade Flurry and Azure Drake nerfs, Rogue was at its worst state. Even then I remember rogue still being pretty good.
warlock def has been bad tho. I would say that only druid and rogue fall in to the category of "never bad"
When I started, after BRD, oil rogue was good, but it fell to tier 3ish and stayed there through all of ToC, and it was the best rogue archtype. League of explorers revitalized miracle rogue, with tomb pillager, and it was great for a while, during WotOG, rogue sort of fell down to tier 2/3 again (heavily punished by zoo and aggro shaman) , and became rather poor in Kara when shamanatone was all the rage, still tier 3 mind you. Then mean streets came out and rogue has pretty much always had a tier 1 or 2 deck from that moment on. There was a time between frozen thrones release and the nerfs that rogue was tier 3, but that's kind of misleading since tempo rogue was actually a thing, but no one really bothered to develop it to the tier 1 deck it eventually became until after the nerfs.
As for other classes, Druid has always had atleat l a tier 2 deck. Warlock generally has a tier 2 or better deck, but there was a pretty large stretch of time, after Reno rotated until Kubelocks and catacombs that zoo was pretty Garbo and control warlock wasn't a thing. Warrior also has been a historic power house, until the war axe Nerf, it always had a tier 1 or 2 decks.
Let me rephrase the question, is Rogue ever going to be good???
Dead but dreaming
Do you not remember when Keleseth Tempo Rogue dominated? Do you remember when Odd Rogue was good?
When ? Whenever Control was bad, Zoolock has always been a thing.
Back in ungoro Warlock was completely dead.
And to prove my point, this is the HCT 2017 June deck lists ( HS World Championship in ungoro meta )
https://www.hearthstonetopdecks.com/hct-spring-championships-shanghai-2017-deck-lists-information/
Also : https://www.hearthpwn.com/news/2888-notable-player-decks-from-the-2017-asia-pacific
As you can, no one used a single warlock card.
I dunno Rogue is weird it doesn't have a true identity always manages to come up with the jankiest looking decks but somehow they work
Rogue is just the ultimate value & tempo class, because of the hero power and combo mechanics, which means it will always do well and be competitive even with a relatively weak set of rotating cards. It's a trade-off with a slightly higher skill level required to play most archetypes. Back in ONiK, Miracle Rogue was a mathematical mind's wunderclass; you could pull off insane, and I mean INSANE turn 6 combos with Arcane Giant and ginormous Edwin VanCleef or shave 90% of your opponent's health and fill your hand for lethal with a few clever bounces. I remember getting something like 28 mana of value even on turn 5 in some games.
I wasn't planning on going for a run today. But those cops came out of nowhere.
warlock wasn't considered a class in unguru.
Rogue wasn't that strong in gvg, oil rogue was a thing but it wss tier 3, also in karazhan rogue was quite weak.
druid had absolutely no weak meta (at least a tier 2 deck) the weakest he wss was ironically in msog jade druid just wasn't strong enough to fend the aggro decks before the nerfs
Wait. if oil rogue was tier 3, why the hell it got demolished?
Kingsbane is already a problem by itself. still i dont see that "design space" weapon that destroyed blade flurry.
Haha so true. But they are that way in all games. Conceal shouldn’t have rotated as that’s a huge rogue identity in general
Rogues are blessed by a broken core set. And cursed by it, too....
Every time new mechanic is introduced Rogues gets one of the worst version of that: spirits\echo\spellstones\deathknights (good in some decks with non-standard game plans but as standalone card Valeera is the worst),
quests(OK, not every time but that was an accident), jade golems... And yet rogues stay on top.