Hi all, So, coming over to Hearthstone from Magic, the 30 card deck size really interested me. I see controlling games often go to about 3-6 cards left in library, and I thought to myself... is it possible to build a deck that kills with fatigue?
Having looked at the cards, I have noticed that the archetype is definitely not intentionally supported - unlike Magic, where it is. However, that's not that discouraging, since sometimes the most broken things are things that slip between the R&D cracks. (Disclaimer: I'm not expecting this deck to be good for climbing the ranks - I just think it could be fun.)
Only two cards exist in Hearthstone (that I know of) that draw cards for your opponent - Naturalize and Coldlight Oracle. That's pretty limited, but Naturalize is quite good, which makes me think that a Druid shell is the place to start.
Druid has a good hero ability for going to the late game, and flexible cards such as Druid of the Claw being able to answer multiple threats. You would really need to 2-for-1 in a Fatigue deck, because drawing (too many) extra cards yourself would cause you fatigue as well.
I think this would honestly look pretty similar to Control Druid, with maybe 6-8 choices that would be otherwise odd.
Another way to build a Fatigue deck would be Control Warrior, but I think that would be a prohibitively expensive deck (so many Legendaries and Epics), and without Naturalize, you would be counting on your armor to keep you from Fatiguing before your opponent.
Here's a very rough cut of the Druid Fatigue deck.
Is it possible to make a Fatigue Deck? Yes. Will it be competitive? No. Of course the new Nax cards Dancing Swords and Deathlord could both probably be used in a Fatigue Deck. People also add King Mukla and Lorewalker Cho to Fatigue Decks to fill up their opponent's hands and burn their cards.
Is it possible to make a Fatigue Deck? Yes. Will it be competitive? No. Of course the new Nax cards Dancing Swords and Deathlord could both probably be used in a Fatigue Deck. People also add King Mukla and Lorewalker Cho to Fatigue Decks to fill up their opponent's hands and burn their cards.
Ah, I forgot about hand burning... that seems incredibly risky, since it's not that hard to dump a couple bananas.
I forgot Dancing Swords exists - that seems pretty ideal. Especially since this deck needs more three drops, as it stands.
Is it possible to make a Fatigue Deck? Yes. Will it be competitive? No. Of course the new Nax cards Dancing Swords and Deathlord could both probably be used in a Fatigue Deck. People also add King Mukla and Lorewalker Cho to Fatigue Decks to fill up their opponent's hands and burn their cards.
Ah, I forgot about hand burning... that seems incredibly risky, since it's not that hard to dump a couple bananas.
I forgot Dancing Swords exists - that seems pretty ideal. Especially since this deck needs more three drops, as it stands.
It is risky which is why you'd ideally drop Mukla on an empty board or when your opponent has 8 or more cards in their hand. Mukla followed by Coldlight Oracle or Naturalize could potentially burn 3 of your opponent's cards.
Rabidwhale - may I ask, how do you insure that your opponent fatigues before you do? Do you just count on them playing more card draw than you? (Or being at a lower life total when you both enter fatigue.)
I see that Coldlight, bouncing it and copying it, gets to zero cards pretty fast in a thirty card deck, but my worry is that you'd be at a lower life than your opponent, and have no answer for a Leeroy, etc.
well they are called Mill decks, and Blizz said they dont want Mill decs.
Do you have a source on that? I don't think I've ever heard anyone mention it before, and I was under the impression that some of the test cards for the game were explicitly for milling.
There is mention of Leeroy being swapped in, but really I don't like him in this particular version of this deck. If you play smart you should be gaining tempo and you can do damage to your opponent no problem.
Not a pure fatigue/mill deck, no. Most strong fatigue kills are caused because an opponent (usually Priest) misplayed hugely (usually with too many Northshire Clerics on the board).
It looks like you are just trying to outlast them... I feel like Priest would be better for this strategy, although Drood is not the worst thing for it...
It looks like you are just trying to outlast them... I feel like Priest would be better for this strategy, although Drood is not the worst thing for it...
This is the guy I mess around with. Will get those swords soon. I played a very similar version that hit about 50% in casual and 60-70% in ranked oddly enough. (I was running into a ton of handlock and miracle, which this deck destroys)
well they are called Mill decks, and Blizz said they dont want Mill decs.
Do you have a source on that? I don't think I've ever heard anyone mention it before, and I was under the impression that some of the test cards for the game were explicitly for milling.
I can't find the quote, but there was a blue post back in beta or maybe early release about how they didn't want to add mechanics that forced the opponent to discard (like a traditional mill deck) because it wasn't "fun".
Discarding and Milling are actually two separate concepts, since one is from the hand and the other directly from the deck. It's possible that Blizzard might conflate them, but I don't really think so.
well they are called Mill decks, and Blizz said they dont want Mill decs.
Do you have a source on that? I don't think I've ever heard anyone mention it before, and I was under the impression that some of the test cards for the game were explicitly for milling.
I can't find the quote, but there was a blue post back in beta or maybe early release about how they didn't want to add mechanics that forced the opponent to discard (like a traditional mill deck) because it wasn't "fun".
You are correct sir! Blizz wanted HS to be more on the fun side, and losing options directly from your hand isn't "fun".
Milling and discard are two very different beasts, especially in HS. Where as some other card games have ways to directly attack the opponents library (IE the namesake Millstone from MtG) the only way to accomplish it in HS is by forcing draw. The forced draw is a very dangerous game to play as many decks can simply play about anything they draw (such as zoo).
So Blizzard has not stated they are against Mill decks, they have stated they are against discarding. New Naxx cards such as Dancing Swords and Deathlord are actually new tools for the mill deck to play around with.
So Blizzard has not stated they are against Mill decks, they have stated they are against discarding. New Naxx cards such as Dancing Swords and Deathlord are actually new tools for the mill deck to play around with.
So true. And the Draw 2 Murloc. Control/Heal Paladin works best. You focus on constantly healing and using spells for control. Only use minions (after they heal you obviously) to help keep board control and let the fatigue dmg do all the work.
It works but definitely not strong enough right now to be viable consistently.
Hi all,
So, coming over to Hearthstone from Magic, the 30 card deck size really interested me. I see controlling games often go to about 3-6 cards left in library, and I thought to myself... is it possible to build a deck that kills with fatigue?
Having looked at the cards, I have noticed that the archetype is definitely not intentionally supported - unlike Magic, where it is. However, that's not that discouraging, since sometimes the most broken things are things that slip between the R&D cracks. (Disclaimer: I'm not expecting this deck to be good for climbing the ranks - I just think it could be fun.)
Only two cards exist in Hearthstone (that I know of) that draw cards for your opponent - Naturalize and Coldlight Oracle. That's pretty limited, but Naturalize is quite good, which makes me think that a Druid shell is the place to start.
Druid has a good hero ability for going to the late game, and flexible cards such as Druid of the Claw being able to answer multiple threats. You would really need to 2-for-1 in a Fatigue deck, because drawing (too many) extra cards yourself would cause you fatigue as well.
I think this would honestly look pretty similar to Control Druid, with maybe 6-8 choices that would be otherwise odd.
Another way to build a Fatigue deck would be Control Warrior, but I think that would be a prohibitively expensive deck (so many Legendaries and Epics), and without Naturalize, you would be counting on your armor to keep you from Fatiguing before your opponent.
Here's a very rough cut of the Druid Fatigue deck.
I'd love to hear other people's opinions on fatigue, whether it's a little tweak to this, or your own idea. Thank you!
Is it possible to make a Fatigue Deck? Yes. Will it be competitive? No. Of course the new Nax cards Dancing Swords and Deathlord could both probably be used in a Fatigue Deck. People also add King Mukla and Lorewalker Cho to Fatigue Decks to fill up their opponent's hands and burn their cards.
Ah, I forgot about hand burning... that seems incredibly risky, since it's not that hard to dump a couple bananas.
I forgot Dancing Swords exists - that seems pretty ideal. Especially since this deck needs more three drops, as it stands.
It is risky which is why you'd ideally drop Mukla on an empty board or when your opponent has 8 or more cards in their hand. Mukla followed by Coldlight Oracle or Naturalize could potentially burn 3 of your opponent's cards.
This is the one I mess around with.
Rabidwhale - may I ask, how do you insure that your opponent fatigues before you do? Do you just count on them playing more card draw than you? (Or being at a lower life total when you both enter fatigue.)
I see that Coldlight, bouncing it and copying it, gets to zero cards pretty fast in a thirty card deck, but my worry is that you'd be at a lower life than your opponent, and have no answer for a Leeroy, etc.
Do you have a source on that? I don't think I've ever heard anyone mention it before, and I was under the impression that some of the test cards for the game were explicitly for milling.
There is mention of Leeroy being swapped in, but really I don't like him in this particular version of this deck. If you play smart you should be gaining tempo and you can do damage to your opponent no problem.
I'd love mill decks to be the next 'big thing', unfortunately I can't see them ever being good against zoo.
burn up their cards and outlast your opponent win,
Not a pure fatigue/mill deck, no. Most strong fatigue kills are caused because an opponent (usually Priest) misplayed hugely (usually with too many Northshire Clerics on the board).
Poetic.
It looks like you are just trying to outlast them... I feel like Priest would be better for this strategy, although Drood is not the worst thing for it...
It looks like you are just trying to outlast them... I feel like Priest would be better for this strategy, although Drood is not the worst thing for it...
This is the guy I mess around with. Will get those swords soon. I played a very similar version that hit about 50% in casual and 60-70% in ranked oddly enough. (I was running into a ton of handlock and miracle, which this deck destroys)
This is a deck I'm very interested in seeing how it works. It doesn't have Naturalize but it looks to be pretty decent.
End of Line
I can't find the quote, but there was a blue post back in beta or maybe early release about how they didn't want to add mechanics that forced the opponent to discard (like a traditional mill deck) because it wasn't "fun".
Discarding and Milling are actually two separate concepts, since one is from the hand and the other directly from the deck. It's possible that Blizzard might conflate them, but I don't really think so.
You are correct sir! Blizz wanted HS to be more on the fun side, and losing options directly from your hand isn't "fun".
Milling and discard are two very different beasts, especially in HS. Where as some other card games have ways to directly attack the opponents library (IE the namesake Millstone from MtG) the only way to accomplish it in HS is by forcing draw. The forced draw is a very dangerous game to play as many decks can simply play about anything they draw (such as zoo).
So Blizzard has not stated they are against Mill decks, they have stated they are against discarding. New Naxx cards such as Dancing Swords and Deathlord are actually new tools for the mill deck to play around with.
So true. And the Draw 2 Murloc. Control/Heal Paladin works best. You focus on constantly healing and using spells for control. Only use minions (after they heal you obviously) to help keep board control and let the fatigue dmg do all the work.
It works but definitely not strong enough right now to be viable consistently.