Ok so if the answer is no deck is good against Zoo and decent against everything else it means that Zoo needs to be nerfed badly.
In most games you have no real decisions to make vs Zoo except to hope to draw into AOE and usually that doesn't even help.
So my question is, Is there any deck that Zoo struggles against?
If yes, Does the deck struggle against pretty much any other matchup?
If no, please tell me this deck as i firmly believe it doesn't exsist.
The problem with zoo is the fact that the battlecrys of Doomguard and Soulfire litterally never mean anything because Zoo always discards a crapps card anyway. IMO i don't think doomguard should hard charge as a 5/7 for 5 mana is OP enough without charge to back it up. Soulfire is a free 4 damage that means heavy taunters like Earth Elemental can be walked through with a soul fire plus trading usually max 2 minions. This is not right at all.
Love somebody to make a deck that is good against zoo.
There are decks with reasonably good (~70% or even higher) win rate against Zoo... Some examples:
Most Combo Druid variations (Mulligan for Innervate+ Keeper of the Grove+Swipe)
Midrange Shaman with (Stormforged Axe, Lightning Storms, Feral Spirits, Unbound Elementals, Fire Elementals)
Tempo Rogue
Miracle Rogue (a bit more minion focused - running 2x Farseer, Gnomish Inventor)
Zetalot Priest
Freeze Mage
all of those decks beat Zoo consistently if you know what you're doing. Of course you will some times get bad draws and the Zoo god hands, but it's just the nature of the game.
The thing is with all those decks, you still need a massive amount of luck to clear the board and win.
There are decks with reasonably good (~70% or even higher) win rate against Zoo... Some examples:
Most Combo Druid variations (Mulligan for Innervate+ Keeper of the Grove+Swipe)
Midrange Shaman with (Stormforged Axe, Lightning Storms, Feral Spirits, Unbound Elementals, Fire Elementals)
Tempo Rogue
Miracle Rogue (a bit more minion focused - running 2x Farseer, Gnomish Inventor)
Zetalot Priest
Freeze Mage
all of those decks beat Zoo consistently if you know what you're doing. Of course you will some times get bad draws and the Zoo god hands, but it's just the nature of the game.
The thing is with all those decks, you still need a massive amount of luck to clear the board and win.
no. no offense, but you probably don't really know how to play those decks against zoo. I usually switch to Tempo Rogue, when I face a lot of zoos. you still can't expect a 100% win ratio, but this should be the case for any match up.
Ok so this is why there is a problem, against warrior freezemage has a really low winrate (around 10%), that is what i call a hard counter to a deck, every-deck SHOULD have a hard counter or the game becomes really boring because you are always facing the same deck with slight variants. Blizzard should either nerf Zoo OR make a few nerfs to other classes that mean they have a better chance against Zoo. With my crusher Shaman deck i can have around 80% winrate against any other heavy minion control class but its counter is aggro decks (which is fine). The problem is mainly the fact that a card game shouldn't have 1 deck that is strong against them all. Zoo is always a problem for any class mainly due to the fact either you are not able to clear board quick enough or you loose so much health early on that a Doomguard or soulfire will end you. This is not right and needs to be looked at by Blizzard.
I agree that i don't know how to play those decks as i mianly play control because i find it a lot more fun then playing cancer classes like Zoo.
Actually the Druid decks don't need a great draw just a decent one, the Taunt heavy druid decks running Sen'jin Shieldmasta, Druid of the Claw, Sunwalker, and Ancient of War, pretty much walk all over Zoo. Here's one of the best lists out there, if you have to replace Cenarius that is fine, though The Black Knight is kind of a must have.
I've been playing a trap/face hunter deck and generally beat Zoo, though it comes down to one turn most of the time, I still have a solid 70% win rate.
Zoo is a pest for a reason. The cards are easy to get, the deck is fairly easy to pilot, and it has alot of play to it. However, it isn't an unstoppable force, or else you'd see more people playing it at legend.
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To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the women.
I know he was unhelpful, but don't reference your rank unless you are rank 2-3+, otherwise people will start to make fun of you, it's immature on their part but it is what happens. Anyway to answer your question, try druid variations running AoW, zoo has a lot of trouble dealing with that thing and it swings to match up into positive.
Ok thanks for the help, i am struggling to decide on 1 deck i want to concentrate on. What deck would you say is best?
ramp druid bro, with sen jins and ancient of war, new poison seed added and the weblord, the weblord will stop all thier battlecry effects, so the cant play elven archer, abusive, for 1 mana anymore of weblord is out. 3 mana now. it kills thier aggro curve. try that
There are decks with reasonably good (~70% or even higher) win rate against Zoo... Some examples:
Most Combo Druid variations (Mulligan for Innervate+ Keeper of the Grove+Swipe)
Midrange Shaman with (Stormforged Axe, Lightning Storms, Feral Spirits, Unbound Elementals, Fire Elementals)
Tempo Rogue
Miracle Rogue (a bit more minion focused - running 2x Farseer, Gnomish Inventor)
Zetalot Priest
Freeze Mage
all of those decks beat Zoo consistently if you know what you're doing. Of course you will some times get bad draws and the Zoo god hands, but it's just the nature of the game.
The thing is with all those decks, you still need a massive amount of luck to clear the board and win.
Uh, no. Shaman for example has so many answers you are bound to draw enough of them to stop Zoo in it's tracks and secure the victory once you get your tougher minions out.
Tempo/ Miracle rogue as well, you do depend a bit on SI7, Backstabs, and Coin, but you also got Deadly poison, hero power, eviscerate, Sap, Perdition's Blade (which can 3 for 1 almost every time vs zoo)... you will basically always have some kind of answer.
Freeze Mage runs enough answers and stalling cards that you should ALWAYS be able to nuke down Zoo before they pop your first ice block, barring extreme god hands on Zoo part and extremely bad hands on your part... Doomsayers (free turn at the very least + possible clear with Frost Nova), +16 armor from Ice Barriers, 2x Blizzard (each basically a full clear), Flamestrike, Mirror Images (awesome stall for 1 mana), hero power... so many answers, and in Zoo matchup you don't even rely on Alexstrasza to win, meaning you can easily nuke them down once they get their hp down to ~20... You can even Alex yourself in a pinch, putting yourself to 15 (with Ice Block up still) and an 8 8 on the Board...
Priest and Druid are I'd say the most dependent on draws as they only have a few good answers to Zoo, but if you think there's a deck that magically wins 100% of the time without caring for draws on either side, I'm sorry to inform you that doesn't exist... Not just in this Zoo case, but in all cases... Even extreme counter decks will lose sometimes, the sooner you realize that, the sooner you will improve as a player
As to what I'd suggest to focus on - I'd say Freeze Mage is the best all-around in the current meta. It wins against most currently prevalent decks, druids, miracles and zoo with more than 60% win rate if played correctly. The decks which are problematic (Shockadin, Ctrl Warr) aren't really part of the meta in a major part and are rare enough to not care much about them
Thanks dude! <3 Please can you post a decklist that works best in this meta? i see a few different variants and i dunno which is best :)
As a zoolock player, according to my stats my worst win rate is against rogue (42%), warlock (47%) and mage (50%). Druid and hunter are my best matchups with 70% win rate for both. I don't track the decks but if I remember correctly the mage losses were mostly against freeze mage.
So I would recommend Miracle Rogue, Handlock or Freeze Mage.
There are decks with reasonably good (~70% or even higher) win rate against Zoo... Some examples:
Most Combo Druid variations (Mulligan for Innervate+ Keeper of the Grove+Swipe)
Midrange Shaman with (Stormforged Axe, Lightning Storms, Feral Spirits, Unbound Elementals, Fire Elementals)
Tempo Rogue
Miracle Rogue (a bit more minion focused - running 2x Farseer, Gnomish Inventor)
Zetalot Priest
Freeze Mage
all of those decks beat Zoo consistently if you know what you're doing. Of course you will some times get bad draws and the Zoo god hands, but it's just the nature of the game.
The thing is with all those decks, you still need a massive amount of luck to clear the board and win.
Uh, no. Shaman for example has so many answers you are bound to draw enough of them to stop Zoo in it's tracks and secure the victory once you get your tougher minions out.
Tempo/ Miracle rogue as well, you do depend a bit on SI7, Backstabs, and Coin, but you also got Deadly poison, hero power, eviscerate, Sap, Perdition's Blade (which can 3 for 1 almost every time vs zoo)... you will basically always have some kind of answer.
Freeze Mage runs enough answers and stalling cards that you should ALWAYS be able to nuke down Zoo before they pop your first ice block, barring extreme god hands on Zoo part and extremely bad hands on your part... Doomsayers (free turn at the very least + possible clear with Frost Nova), +16 armor from Ice Barriers, 2x Blizzard (each basically a full clear), Flamestrike, Mirror Images (awesome stall for 1 mana), hero power... so many answers, and in Zoo matchup you don't even rely on Alexstrasza to win, meaning you can easily nuke them down once they get their hp down to ~20... You can even Alex yourself in a pinch, putting yourself to 15 (with Ice Block up still) and an 8 8 on the Board...
Priest and Druid are I'd say the most dependent on draws as they only have a few good answers to Zoo, but if you think there's a deck that magically wins 100% of the time without caring for draws on either side, I'm sorry to inform you that doesn't exist... Not just in this Zoo case, but in all cases... Even extreme counter decks will lose sometimes, the sooner you realize that, the sooner you will improve as a player
As to what I'd suggest to focus on - I'd say Freeze Mage is the best all-around in the current meta. It wins against most currently prevalent decks, druids, miracles and zoo with more than 60% win rate if played correctly. The decks which are problematic (Shockadin, Ctrl Warr) aren't really part of the meta in a major part and are rare enough to not care much about them
Thanks dude! <3 Please can you post a decklist that works best in this meta? i see a few different variants and i dunno which is best :)
There are a couple of variations playing with Giants and/or Archmage Antonidas, but Otter version is all in all the most consistent and good against almost everything (problematic are smart hunters that keep Flare to remove your Ice Block on the turn they have lethal, Ctrl Warriors and Shockadins)
Tactic is simple - mulligan for Card Draw (Novice Engineer, Acolyte) and needed early cards (Frostbolt, depending on matchup), stall the game with your huge arsenal while drawing as many cards as possible (pinging your own acolyte is very often a great play), making sure to setup Ice Block before turn 9... turn 9 alex their face... turn 10 and 11 finish them with Pyro/Frost bolt + ice lances/ Fire Balls (it should be noted that it is most of the time best to keep bloodmage thalnos for that late game spell combo - only cycle him in desperate times. You also need at least 1 frostbolt to enable the ice lances)
Another note is that in certain matchups (Zoo, Handlock, Shaman, Rogue) you don't need Alex as a win condition as they run no heals, so you can just draw all your spells and nuke their face on turns 8-10.
Ok thanks, i have all the cards. Ill post how i do!
As a zoolock player, according to my stats my worst win rate is against rogue (42%), warlock (47%) and mage (50%). Druid and hunter are my best matchups with 70% win rate for both. I don't track the decks but if I remember correctly the mage losses were mostly against freeze mage.
So I would recommend Miracle Rogue, Handlock or Freeze Mage.
As a Zoo player, my win rates against Priest and Druid are 38%, against all other classes its 60% and over.
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Omar Little: "Look man, I do what I can do to help y'all. But the game is out there, and it's either play or get played."
There are decks with reasonably good (~70% or even higher) win rate against Zoo... Some examples:
Most Combo Druid variations (Mulligan for Innervate+ Keeper of the Grove+Swipe)
Midrange Shaman with (Stormforged Axe, Lightning Storms, Feral Spirits, Unbound Elementals, Fire Elementals)
Tempo Rogue
Miracle Rogue (a bit more minion focused - running 2x Farseer, Gnomish Inventor)
Zetalot Priest
Freeze Mage
all of those decks beat Zoo consistently if you know what you're doing. Of course you will some times get bad draws and the Zoo god hands, but it's just the nature of the game.
The thing is with all those decks, you still need a massive amount of luck to clear the board and win.
Uh, no. Shaman for example has so many answers you are bound to draw enough of them to stop Zoo in it's tracks and secure the victory once you get your tougher minions out.
Tempo/ Miracle rogue as well, you do depend a bit on SI7, Backstabs, and Coin, but you also got Deadly poison, hero power, eviscerate, Sap, Perdition's Blade (which can 3 for 1 almost every time vs zoo)... you will basically always have some kind of answer.
Freeze Mage runs enough answers and stalling cards that you should ALWAYS be able to nuke down Zoo before they pop your first ice block, barring extreme god hands on Zoo part and extremely bad hands on your part... Doomsayers (free turn at the very least + possible clear with Frost Nova), +16 armor from Ice Barriers, 2x Blizzard (each basically a full clear), Flamestrike, Mirror Images (awesome stall for 1 mana), hero power... so many answers, and in Zoo matchup you don't even rely on Alexstrasza to win, meaning you can easily nuke them down once they get their hp down to ~20... You can even Alex yourself in a pinch, putting yourself to 15 (with Ice Block up still) and an 8 8 on the Board...
Priest and Druid are I'd say the most dependent on draws as they only have a few good answers to Zoo, but if you think there's a deck that magically wins 100% of the time without caring for draws on either side, I'm sorry to inform you that doesn't exist... Not just in this Zoo case, but in all cases... Even extreme counter decks will lose sometimes, the sooner you realize that, the sooner you will improve as a player
As to what I'd suggest to focus on - I'd say Freeze Mage is the best all-around in the current meta. It wins against most currently prevalent decks, druids, miracles and zoo with more than 60% win rate if played correctly. The decks which are problematic (Shockadin, Ctrl Warr) aren't really part of the meta in a major part and are rare enough to not care much about them
Thanks dude! <3 Please can you post a decklist that works best in this meta? i see a few different variants and i dunno which is best :)
There are a couple of variations playing with Giants and/or Archmage Antonidas, but Otter version is all in all the most consistent and good against almost everything (problematic are smart hunters that keep Flare to remove your Ice Block on the turn they have lethal, Ctrl Warriors and Shockadins)
Tactic is simple - mulligan for Card Draw (Novice Engineer, Acolyte) and needed early cards (Frostbolt, depending on matchup), stall the game with your huge arsenal while drawing as many cards as possible (pinging your own acolyte is very often a great play), making sure to setup Ice Block before turn 9... turn 9 alex their face... turn 10 and 11 finish them with Pyro/Frost bolt + ice lances/ Fire Balls (it should be noted that it is most of the time best to keep bloodmage thalnos for that late game spell combo - only cycle him in desperate times. You also need at least 1 frostbolt to enable the ice lances)
Another note is that in certain matchups (Zoo, Handlock, Shaman, Rogue) you don't need Alex as a win condition as they run no heals, so you can just draw all your spells and nuke their face on turns 8-10.
Ok so i have a good question, what do i do about nerubian egg? shall i kill it as son as possible or leave it and only activate is when i blizzard?
Handlock is absurdly favored against Zoo, like 75%-80%. If the aggressive Warlock deck is playing Power Overwhelming, though, you're screwed. My record this month at rank 5 and better with Handlock is 12-3 vs Zoo and 1-4 vs Power Overwhelming decks lol.
Ok so if the answer is no deck is good against Zoo and decent against everything else it means that Zoo needs to be nerfed badly.
In most games you have no real decisions to make vs Zoo except to hope to draw into AOE and usually that doesn't even help.
So my question is, Is there any deck that Zoo struggles against?
If yes, Does the deck struggle against pretty much any other matchup?
If no, please tell me this deck as i firmly believe it doesn't exsist.
The problem with zoo is the fact that the battlecrys of Doomguard and Soulfire litterally never mean anything because Zoo always discards a crapps card anyway. IMO i don't think doomguard should hard charge as a 5/7 for 5 mana is OP enough without charge to back it up. Soulfire is a free 4 damage that means heavy taunters like Earth Elemental can be walked through with a soul fire plus trading usually max 2 minions. This is not right at all.
Love somebody to make a deck that is good against zoo.
Thanks
learn to play deck
Considering i am ladder rank 8 i think i am pretty Ok at this game thanks
The thing is with all those decks, you still need a massive amount of luck to clear the board and win.
Ok so this is why there is a problem, against warrior freezemage has a really low winrate (around 10%), that is what i call a hard counter to a deck, every-deck SHOULD have a hard counter or the game becomes really boring because you are always facing the same deck with slight variants. Blizzard should either nerf Zoo OR make a few nerfs to other classes that mean they have a better chance against Zoo. With my crusher Shaman deck i can have around 80% winrate against any other heavy minion control class but its counter is aggro decks (which is fine). The problem is mainly the fact that a card game shouldn't have 1 deck that is strong against them all. Zoo is always a problem for any class mainly due to the fact either you are not able to clear board quick enough or you loose so much health early on that a Doomguard or soulfire will end you. This is not right and needs to be looked at by Blizzard.
I agree that i don't know how to play those decks as i mianly play control because i find it a lot more fun then playing cancer classes like Zoo.
Actually the Druid decks don't need a great draw just a decent one, the Taunt heavy druid decks running Sen'jin Shieldmasta, Druid of the Claw, Sunwalker, and Ancient of War, pretty much walk all over Zoo. Here's one of the best lists out there, if you have to replace Cenarius that is fine, though The Black Knight is kind of a must have.
I've been playing a trap/face hunter deck and generally beat Zoo, though it comes down to one turn most of the time, I still have a solid 70% win rate.
Zoo is a pest for a reason. The cards are easy to get, the deck is fairly easy to pilot, and it has alot of play to it. However, it isn't an unstoppable force, or else you'd see more people playing it at legend.
To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the women.
Ok thanks for the help, i am struggling to decide on 1 deck i want to concentrate on. What deck would you say is best?
ramp druid bro, with sen jins and ancient of war, new poison seed added and the weblord, the weblord will stop all thier battlecry effects, so the cant play elven archer, abusive, for 1 mana anymore of weblord is out. 3 mana now. it kills thier aggro curve. try that
ALL HAIL LORD SPECTRAL!!!
Thanks dude! <3 Please can you post a decklist that works best in this meta? i see a few different variants and i dunno which is best :)
As a zoolock player, according to my stats my worst win rate is against rogue (42%), warlock (47%) and mage (50%). Druid and hunter are my best matchups with 70% win rate for both. I don't track the decks but if I remember correctly the mage losses were mostly against freeze mage.
So I would recommend Miracle Rogue, Handlock or Freeze Mage.
Ok thanks, i have all the cards. Ill post how i do!
As a Zoo player, my win rates against Priest and Druid are 38%, against all other classes its 60% and over.
Omar Little: "Look man, I do what I can do to help y'all. But the game is out there, and it's either play or get played."
Ok so i have a good question, what do i do about nerubian egg? shall i kill it as son as possible or leave it and only activate is when i blizzard?
Handlock is absurdly favored against Zoo, like 75%-80%. If the aggressive Warlock deck is playing Power Overwhelming, though, you're screwed. My record this month at rank 5 and better with Handlock is 12-3 vs Zoo and 1-4 vs Power Overwhelming decks lol.
as an aggro mage, i am 64% favorite against warlock in general....mainly zoo, occasionally handlock...
my worst matchups are priests, then paladin afterwards...
always try to board control in the beginning vs them...then go for the face...then it's all luck dependent on my lucky draws(spells dmg)