I think the mechanic is fine, but I doubt the cards with it we have seen so far are strong enough. To be viable in constructed, I think the cards need at least Yeti-stats (Manacost/manacost+ 1 health) or to be situationally even better. Icehowl is not very scary, is he? The mechanic is WAAAY weaker than charge. Rush+poisonous and divine shield is nice, ofc, but I doubt we willl see that.
Its because Icehowl can't attack heroes ....like at all .
i think it's also important to remember that rush is being implemented during a huge downward shift in overall set power. most OP archetypes are being gutted. basically all current priest archetypes, secret mage, and murloc pally will vanish. jades are gone, nzoth, medivh, etc. it's pretty hard to picture what decks will look like without a lot of the end game and early game power cards we're accustomed to, lots of clears and removal rotating, etc.
But almost all rin/cubelock tools, UI, CTA, Spiteful and deathknights are still in the game, so the powerlevel will still be high.
Rush is useless on an empty board, vs taunts you don't want to attack vs bad trades. They are probably experimenting this expansion, and overvaluing the mechanic (a bit like inspire) but I think yeti-stats or very strong synergies are needed.
I think rush mechanic will be very strong. Every card that has the ability to swing board state is very powerful, and some of rush minions are capable of that.
I think that rush itself is very strong. However I think the majority of rush cards shown so far are 1 or 2 stats off being competetive. In the current meta trading favourably is a massive advantage as alot of decks are minion combat based so playing with low health minions is fine (exceptions are warlock and duskbreaker can punish but they only have 2, remember netherspite historian is rotating). However against decks that work with spells, particularly aoe, it won't be as strong so could become weaker in future expansions.
My main concern is that rush will be crazy in arena. As far as I am aware rush cards are available in arena and will become really strong. The one upside is that it could help with coming back from an opponent who has a on curve start when you don't so could end up being a postive addition.
Most of what you say is why Rush will be "fun" rather than "strong", here's my main reason why rush cards so far aren't good enough, the idea of charge is that it allows you to push face damage, or regain tempo by killing a minion. However rush cards so far have so little health, that they fail even in the second point, unless you are trading a 1-attack minion with your 4/2 rush, So mostly they are equivalent to a spell that would say "deal X damage". Argent Commander for example, was used mostly against minions rather than face, but that was because it has Divine Shield, so it would stick to the board and give you tempo advantage. Without divine shield, it would be crap.
So when do I see rush minions useful, when you can trade a high-cost minion with your low-cost minion that has more attack than health, but that is sooooo specific I only see decks maybe runing 1 or 2 rush minions, but not a rush centric deck
people are definitely underrating rush. it will provide removal for classes or archetypes that lack it, and it provides tempo while doing so. overall power levels will be dropping immensely after rotation, and most existing archetypes will be gutted, to boot.
Can rush beat Cubelock? No? Oh well then. It seems you've forgotten how little trading matters when impossibly large taunts are cheated out with no effort and huge armies of dudes launch themselves at you without caring about death.
Agree with a lot of the sentiment here. Underrated to be able to dictate board trades from behind. But nothing seems like it will come within a mile of solving Cubelock.
In Arena I think it could a very premium mechanic, where mid-range board control means more and insane combos aren't there.
i think it's also important to remember that rush is being implemented during a huge downward shift in overall set power. most OP archetypes are being gutted. basically all current priest archetypes, secret mage, and murloc pally will vanish. jades are gone, nzoth, medivh, etc. it's pretty hard to picture what decks will look like without a lot of the end game and early game power cards we're accustomed to, lots of clears and removal rotating, etc.
But almost all rin/cubelock tools, UI, CTA, Spiteful and deathknights are still in the game, so the powerlevel will still be high.
Rush is useless on an empty board, vs taunts you don't want to attack vs bad trades. They are probably experimenting this expansion, and overvaluing the mechanic (a bit like inspire) but I think yeti-stats or very strong synergies are needed.
sure, there are strong cards still, but we'll have to re-evaluate all of their synergies. UI is a lot more balanced w/o jades, dude CTA isn't quite as busted when murloc and dude pally lose many key cards, spiteful priest loses the dragon package and potion, so twilight acolyte and duskbreaker take a hit. warlock mostly just loses nzoth and mistress, but the former is a really big blow to control lock. value-oriented games are often won with the 2nd reload from nzoth, which means firing off rin is 100% necessary. will cubelock alone warp the meta to the degree that all tempo-y midrangey decks will be relegated to tier 4? i dunno
Isn't Rush gonna be the mechanic that makes midrange even semi-competitive again? I know midrange still kinda just falls apart vs cubelock, but there are other ways to beat cubelock (which no one seems to understand haha).
Another problem with midrange decks was they could just not deal with aggro (especially silver hand/murloc paladins) at all. I feel like Rush will allow them to actually maintain board presence against those decks. I daresay that those aggro paladin archetypes might even fall into the Tier 2 level. I know, I know, that's a bold statement, considering murloc paladin has been near the top for what feels like forever lol.
I'm pretty excited for Rush, and I think Rush Warrior will be one of the top tier decks. Please don't quote me on that though, I might not know what I'm talking about lol.
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Twitch name: Anatak15 NA Legend Season 48, 49, 52, 53, 54, 74
We have to playtest before we can give an opinion on a new mechanic. In the past, I remember when the player community thought that Inspire cards would be overpowered or that Recruit cards would be underwhelming before the respective expansions. Maybe Blizzards really ****ed up, maybe not, time will tell.
Decks that do not care about board need to leave the top tier before Rush can be good.
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Shudderwock means driving a clown car in circles around your opponent while he swings his sword at you. Half the time he chops you and your car to pieces. The other half you park on his legs and 40 clowns come out one by one, trampling him to death.
Rush is definitely a strong mechanic, the problem that appears to be happening though is Blizzard is stating them super conservatively. I don't want to play a rush minion that dies the turn I play it. I want a rush minion that trades favorably and sticks on the board afterward. So far every rush minion is either high attack/low health or low attack/high health, and if they don't follow that formula then they are super situational where they have some immediate downside, or are very conditional. The problem is a rush minion that can't attack into anything immediately seems really bad and not being able to go face just makes them seem awful.
Agree with a lot of the sentiment here. Underrated to be able to dictate board trades from behind. But nothing seems like it will come within a mile of solving Cubelock.
In Arena I think it could a very premium mechanic, where mid-range board control means more and insane combos aren't there.
I don’t think cube lock is such big an issue. It’s nowhere near the power of pre nerf highlander priest.
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TL;DR
not even sure if people are arguing that it's bad lol
Why u hav to be mad? is only card gaem.
I think rush mechanic will be very strong. Every card that has the ability to swing board state is very powerful, and some of rush minions are capable of that.
I think that rush itself is very strong. However I think the majority of rush cards shown so far are 1 or 2 stats off being competetive. In the current meta trading favourably is a massive advantage as alot of decks are minion combat based so playing with low health minions is fine (exceptions are warlock and duskbreaker can punish but they only have 2, remember netherspite historian is rotating). However against decks that work with spells, particularly aoe, it won't be as strong so could become weaker in future expansions.
My main concern is that rush will be crazy in arena. As far as I am aware rush cards are available in arena and will become really strong. The one upside is that it could help with coming back from an opponent who has a on curve start when you don't so could end up being a postive addition.
Don't mind me, just the UK National Champion.
Most of what you say is why Rush will be "fun" rather than "strong", here's my main reason why rush cards so far aren't good enough, the idea of charge is that it allows you to push face damage, or regain tempo by killing a minion. However rush cards so far have so little health, that they fail even in the second point, unless you are trading a 1-attack minion with your 4/2 rush, So mostly they are equivalent to a spell that would say "deal X damage". Argent Commander for example, was used mostly against minions rather than face, but that was because it has Divine Shield, so it would stick to the board and give you tempo advantage. Without divine shield, it would be crap.
So when do I see rush minions useful, when you can trade a high-cost minion with your low-cost minion that has more attack than health, but that is sooooo specific I only see decks maybe runing 1 or 2 rush minions, but not a rush centric deck
I think muck hunter is the sleeper of the set, especially in highmore decks
Can rush beat Cubelock? No? Oh well then. It seems you've forgotten how little trading matters when impossibly large taunts are cheated out with no effort and huge armies of dudes launch themselves at you without caring about death.
Agree with a lot of the sentiment here. Underrated to be able to dictate board trades from behind. But nothing seems like it will come within a mile of solving Cubelock.
In Arena I think it could a very premium mechanic, where mid-range board control means more and insane combos aren't there.
warlock mostly just loses nzoth and mistress, but the former is a really big blow to control lock. value-oriented games are often won with the 2nd reload from nzoth, which means firing off rin is 100% necessary. will cubelock alone warp the meta to the degree that all tempo-y midrangey decks will be relegated to tier 4? i dunno
Isn't Rush gonna be the mechanic that makes midrange even semi-competitive again? I know midrange still kinda just falls apart vs cubelock, but there are other ways to beat cubelock (which no one seems to understand haha).
Another problem with midrange decks was they could just not deal with aggro (especially silver hand/murloc paladins) at all. I feel like Rush will allow them to actually maintain board presence against those decks. I daresay that those aggro paladin archetypes might even fall into the Tier 2 level. I know, I know, that's a bold statement, considering murloc paladin has been near the top for what feels like forever lol.
I'm pretty excited for Rush, and I think Rush Warrior will be one of the top tier decks. Please don't quote me on that though, I might not know what I'm talking about lol.
Twitch name: Anatak15
NA Legend Season 48, 49, 52, 53, 54, 74
We have to playtest before we can give an opinion on a new mechanic. In the past, I remember when the player community thought that Inspire cards would be overpowered or that Recruit cards would be underwhelming before the respective expansions. Maybe Blizzards really ****ed up, maybe not, time will tell.
Decks that do not care about board need to leave the top tier before Rush can be good.
Shudderwock means driving a clown car in circles around your opponent while he swings his sword at you. Half the time he chops you and your car to pieces. The other half you park on his legs and 40 clowns come out one by one, trampling him to death.
Whizbang Strategy Reference -- update complete for Rastakhan's Rumble!
Rush is definitely a strong mechanic, the problem that appears to be happening though is Blizzard is stating them super conservatively. I don't want to play a rush minion that dies the turn I play it. I want a rush minion that trades favorably and sticks on the board afterward. So far every rush minion is either high attack/low health or low attack/high health, and if they don't follow that formula then they are super situational where they have some immediate downside, or are very conditional. The problem is a rush minion that can't attack into anything immediately seems really bad and not being able to go face just makes them seem awful.