what is the best use for taldaram? cloning the cube? the voidlord or maybe even Umbra?
i dusted him, and then i was lucky enough to get him again from a brawl pack the other day. :D
Cube or voidlord, but Depending on the circumstances I've also cloned a manatide totem, a mountain giant and then silenced him, doom guard then silence, or just some random dude. Turns out an extra mountain giant is pretty good. you don't always have to use him as part of the combo. Plus they'll usually ignore him as a doom guard or mountain giant are much more threatening... BTW I play a handlock version
Also this relates to the OP, I play spell breaker instead of Umbra. so obviously there are some good other choices... in fact umbra is not even in the top performing Cubelock deck on HSreplay.
I'd say if you had to choose between Umbra and Prince, go with Umbra.Not only can Umbra gain a lot of value IF left on the board. You usually want to gain your deathrattle effects in the same turn she's on. She also sees a lot of play in other death rattle decks like Hunter and Priest. 3 mana Prince is okay. He doesn't see play at all except in like meme decks, which I assume you don't play. He can swing boards really well, if used at the right time but you do have to complete a specification that isn't the best for warlock.
I feel like Umbra, Nzoth, and Taldram are nice tech options. Although i feel like Nzoth falls behind, taldram and Umbra are both fine. If you have 1 dont craft the other. If you have neithre... Both are good, so probably it will be fine either way, the difference is minimun.
Ill choose depending on other decks that you play and see if they are usefull there.
I play umbra in cubelock, only because I already had it. I would not craft it otherwise. Sometimes you can get some insane value off of the card.. but there are so many options with this deck, that I don't think any one card is necessary, other than maybe the lackeys and the demons
I play umbra in cubelock, only because I already had it. I would not craft it otherwise. Sometimes you can get some insane value off of the card.. but there are so many options with this deck, that I don't think any one card is necessary, other than maybe the lackeys and the demons
I want to say something, which I have said in some other threads and to some I may have gotten annoying with:
You don't need all those legendaries, you are just making the deck greedy.
If the meta was or if it gets slow, then YES, include more late-game stuff, include more support for the cubes, exhaust your opponents if you want to. You are going to profit, because you have all the time you need to do so, you won't be pressured from the start. But in an environment, where aggro still has something to say, just respect that arch-type and adjust your deck accordingly. Improve your chances by adding Stonehill Defenders, why not Tar Creepers as well. But running several other expensive and clumsy minions is just asking for a punishment.
About Umbra - at the one hand I think she goes in this category, on the other however the whole point of cubelock was to abuse the chargers and the Deathknight, to multiply the good-quality demons, which also have some drawbacks. And Umbra contributes to this strategy and it would be kinda weird to make a deck without her, but if really somehow the aggro decks prevail in the meta, then she won't be really needed, as she would be kinda slow to deal with them.
at the moment, the deck is struggling on ladder tbh. I feel it might be better to wait before u craft... go read the viscous syndicate meta report.
it's struggling because people are playing it who are bad with the deck. if a player who knows the deck well pilots it, it performs well.
it just remains that there are decks far easier to pilot that are much faster out there right now, so they have the higher win vs. loss rates.
vicious syndicate is all based on win/loss ratio so it makes sense that cubelock would look bad on there... it's still an amazing deck, but you're right... maybe holding off pumping tons of resources into this deck is best as it's not for everyone... after all it's a combo deck.
I've played a lot of games with cubelock from rank 5 to 2, and honestly Umbra is mostly used as a pseudo taunt against aggro decks. It's very few games I've utilized the ability to gain value.
don't you mean rin? umbra isn't a taunt minion.. or do you just mean as a decoy that kind of acts like a taunt as in people attack it?
I've played a lot of games with cubelock from rank 5 to 2, and honestly Umbra is mostly used as a pseudo taunt against aggro decks. It's very few games I've utilized the ability to gain value.
don't you mean rin? umbra isn't a taunt minion.. or do you just mean as a decoy that kind of acts like a taunt as in people attack it?
what is the best use for taldaram? cloning the cube? the voidlord or maybe even Umbra?
i dusted him, and then i was lucky enough to get him again from a brawl pack the other day. :D
Cube or voidlord, but Depending on the circumstances I've also cloned a manatide totem, a mountain giant and then silenced him, doom guard then silence, or just some random dude. Turns out an extra mountain giant is pretty good. you don't always have to use him as part of the combo. Plus they'll usually ignore him as a doom guard or mountain giant are much more threatening... BTW I play a handlock version
I was playing a cube player the other day with my mid range pally. they clones my dirty rat that had a val'anyr buff on it, they got the weapon when I had to wipe out the taunt.
it's not ideal to have the weapon as a cube player, but it can cause your opponent to burn a silence stopping you from getting the weapon. I knew better than to do this though as it doesn't really benefit them all that much (and also they would be dead before they got any actual value from it)
I've played a lot of games with cubelock from rank 5 to 2, and honestly Umbra is mostly used as a pseudo taunt against aggro decks. It's very few games I've utilized the ability to gain value.
don't you mean rin? umbra isn't a taunt minion.. or do you just mean as a decoy that kind of acts like a taunt as in people attack it?
Learn what the word pseudo means.
I know what pseudo means, I just wasn't sure of your application as psuedo tends to mean when someone learns enough about a subject to be able to talk about it to the extent it looks like they know more than they do. as in "pseudo intellectual"
So tbh it was your application of the word I wasn't really sure about. I think that clears it up though. You mean pseudo taunt as in it just acts as if it were a taunt because people will always go for it first.
For sure Taldaram , Umbra is good if you have her but there are hundreds of sucessful lists out there without her but almost every deck uses prince, he's just super good in that deck, people just think about copying cubes or Void Lord/ Doomguard but you can copy anything, getting a 3/3 rightgeous protector is amazing, even a fricking 3/3 patches helps a lot so he's for sure way more important than Umbra.
what is the best use for taldaram? cloning the cube? the voidlord or maybe even Umbra?
i dusted him, and then i was lucky enough to get him again from a brawl pack the other day. :D
You can copy any high value minions, not just yours, you can copy a Void Lord for more taunts against aggro or a doomguard so you can clear a minion or just do more face damage and get more chargers with Gul'dan but you can copy anything goo that your opponent has, a 3/3 taunt Divine shield rightgeous protector is pretty good, even a 3/3 patches is sweet, so the options are infinite, there's not a right or wrong target for prince it depends on the deck you're facing and what the game is asking you for at the moment of playing prince, or thinking of doing so.
at the moment, the deck is struggling on ladder tbh. I feel it might be better to wait before u craft... go read the viscous syndicate meta report.
it's struggling because people are playing it who are bad with the deck. if a player who knows the deck well pilots it, it performs well.
it just remains that there are decks far easier to pilot that are much faster out there right now, so they have the higher win vs. loss rates.
vicious syndicate is all based on win/loss ratio so it makes sense that cubelock would look bad on there... it's still an amazing deck, but you're right... maybe holding off pumping tons of resources into this deck is best as it's not for everyone... after all it's a combo deck.
I know that it is hard to play. But getting your giants out on 4-5 etc simply isn't good enough against Razakus Priest.. Your telling me u have a positive wr against most priest?
Yes, VS base what they write on people who play with some wr tool, but what they say for the deck makes sense.
'The biggest loser of the week is Control Warlock, which is facing major obstacles on ladder. Control Warlock is a very strong deck against aggressive decks. However, it was performing very poorly against the most popular class in the game, Priest. In order to gain percentages against Razakus Priest, it needed to add a more threatening Giants/Faceless package to its arsenal. However, adding this package sacrifices percentages against aggressive decks (Giants/Faceless are very bad cards against aggro). Therefore, Warlock is stuck between a rock and a hard place. In a ladder environment, it struggles to perform optimally against both Priest and aggressive decks with the same 30 cards, so it has to choose and adapt according to where the wind blows. Another problem it’s facing is Spellbreaker. The usage of this card, especially in aggressive decks, has jumped massively over the past week. Players have been relentless at teching against Warlock, so this is also hurting the archetype’s win rate quite substantially '
Clownpriest (kazakus) is also suposed to be hard to play, yet that deck is OP on ladder. U dont need to play it that well as long as u hit raza on 5 and anduin on 8, u can set skill aside, u are now a clown with a machinegun.
Month, or month-and-a-half ago people wrote that Razakus Priest is bad because VS listed it as a Tier 3 deck, based on winrates posted there. If you want a decent peak into current meta, pick Tempostorm. This deck is very good, but it requires some time to learn how it goes, what cards you need, how to mulligan etc. Saying a deck is bad because it's losing to Razakus Priest is quite an exaggeration ;)
I've played a lot of games with cubelock from rank 5 to 2, and honestly Umbra is mostly used as a pseudo taunt against aggro decks. It's very few games I've utilized the ability to gain value.
don't you mean rin? umbra isn't a taunt minion.. or do you just mean as a decoy that kind of acts like a taunt as in people attack it?
Learn what the word pseudo means.
I know what pseudo means, I just wasn't sure of your application as psuedo tends to mean when someone learns enough about a subject to be able to talk about it to the extent it looks like they know more than they do. as in "pseudo intellectual"
So tbh it was your application of the word I wasn't really sure about. I think that clears it up though. You mean pseudo taunt as in it just acts as if it were a taunt because people will always go for it first.
I've played a lot of games with cubelock from rank 5 to 2, and honestly Umbra is mostly used as a pseudo taunt against aggro decks. It's very few games I've utilized the ability to gain value.
don't you mean rin? umbra isn't a taunt minion.. or do you just mean as a decoy that kind of acts like a taunt as in people attack it?
Learn what the word pseudo means.
I know what pseudo means, I just wasn't sure of your application as psuedo tends to mean when someone learns enough about a subject to be able to talk about it to the extent it looks like they know more than they do. as in "pseudo intellectual"
So tbh it was your application of the word I wasn't really sure about. I think that clears it up though. You mean pseudo taunt as in it just acts as if it were a taunt because people will always go for it first.
You're just giving an example about what pseudo is but that is not the definition itself, so while your example is absolutely correct it isn't the definition at all and there's no "application" for it, the word means something and it was used properly and on the only way possible to do so, the actual definition of pseudo is either something or someone that's pretending to be or to do something that it isn't or that it can't actually do or something that's almost that specific thing that's the main topic of "discussion".
Month, or month-and-a-half ago people wrote that Razakus Priest is bad because VS listed it as a Tier 3 deck, based on winrates posted there. If you want a decent peak into current meta, pick Tempostorm. This deck is very good, but it requires some time to learn how it goes, what cards you need, how to mulligan etc. Saying a deck is bad because it's losing to Razakus Priest is quite an exaggeration ;)
not saying that it's bad... it's just not good enough for ladder anymore... Loosing to clown priest is bad... since most decks u face are either aggro mage or clown priest... I'm a decent player, hit rank five on a frequent basis, I can beat most decks... But i Loose to hard aggro and raza priest... The giants version win against aggro around mid game IF u survive until then, IF u pull Board clears, or Taunts etc...
Against Raza Priest u get a giant out on 4... 50 percent of the time it dies on the spot. if not u clone it next turn and then anduin comes out the next turn and kill both ur 8-8s... U have now wasted 8 turns just staying alive...
I would love to see someone climb ladder with this deck right now... Hell, even Zalee say GL winning over raza priest in his how to play video... and that was done before the downfall of this deck. It's tier one on Tempostorm, course the deck has more horsepower than most decks... But they don't update their page that frequently, and I do think the deck is great in a tournament environment, but sadly I doubt it performs well on ladder now...
No one plays it anymore... I would wait crafting it... I'm hoping and thinking it will morph in to something more solid but loosing to raza priest on a frequent basis is not good. Ur better of playing jade druid or zoo then...
this ^^
i poured all my dust into making cubelock 2 weeks ago. It was performing great. It helped me climb 2000 ranks on the legend ladder... then the season reset and all you queue into is raza priest and aggro decks that run double silence and/or have TONS of reach. Its not a good ladder deck at all unless you have a firm grasp on your micro meta. I would have to imagine though that it is one of the best, if not the best, tournament deck(s). Kind of reminds me of otk murloc paladin a few meta's ago.
i poured all my dust into making cubelock 2 weeks ago. It was performing great. It helped me climb 2000 ranks on the legend ladder... then the season reset and all you queue into is raza priest and aggro decks that run double silence and/or have TONS of reach. Its not a good ladder deck at all unless you have a firm grasp on your micro meta. I would have to imagine though that it is one of the best, if not the best, tournament deck(s). Kind of reminds me of otk murloc paladin a few meta's ago.
Same shit here, I dusted allot of epics and legendary's to craft this deck. I even sold it to a couple of friends... Praising it and how strong it is... Only to hear a few days later they too could not win fuck all on ladder anymore...
Like I was saying though. Most of the core cards are Very powerful still. I'm still hopeful that some new deck will emerge with cube's and what not.
Just for curiousity, I have Umbra and Taldaram in tier 2 in the crafting guide. They are staples in a tier 2 deck, and is in decent company as such there. But... should they be demoted to tier 3?
Month, or month-and-a-half ago people wrote that Razakus Priest is bad because VS listed it as a Tier 3 deck, based on winrates posted there. If you want a decent peak into current meta, pick Tempostorm. This deck is very good, but it requires some time to learn how it goes, what cards you need, how to mulligan etc. Saying a deck is bad because it's losing to Razakus Priest is quite an exaggeration ;)
not saying that it's bad... it's just not good enough for ladder anymore... Loosing to clown priest is bad... since most decks u face are either aggro mage or clown priest... I'm a decent player, hit rank five on a frequent basis, I can beat most decks... But i Loose to hard aggro and raza priest... The giants version win against aggro around mid game IF u survive until then, IF u pull Board clears, or Taunts etc...
Against Raza Priest u get a giant out on 4... 50 percent of the time it dies on the spot. if not u clone it next turn and then anduin comes out the next turn and kill both ur 8-8s... U have now wasted 8 turns just staying alive...
I would love to see someone climb ladder with this deck right now... Hell, even Zalee say GL winning over raza priest in his how to play video... and that was done before the downfall of this deck. It's tier one on Tempostorm, course the deck has more horsepower than most decks... But they don't update their page that frequently, and I do think the deck is great in a tournament environment, but sadly I doubt it performs well on ladder now...
No one plays it anymore... I would wait crafting it... I'm hoping and thinking it will morph in to something more solid but loosing to raza priest on a frequent basis is not good. Ur better of playing jade druid or zoo then...
Well, I took legend and then 1500 on legend last month with Nzoth-Rin lock. And this month I dusted alot of old legendaries and epic to make cube version. And actually I agree that it is not so great. Yes, when you draw weapon on turn 5 and cube combo on turn 6 in control match you are god. Or drawing aoe and dark pacts and coils against aggro. But overall Nzoth-Rin lock is more consistant against aggro, it also easily beats jade druid and the most funniest moment that it beats cube lock in 90% matches.
So for me playing ladder with Nzoth-Rin is more stable and I'm switching to cube-version only if starting face too much clown-priest and big-priest. I do not regret I spent dust on cubes and warlock weapon, I think this deck has good future and it is fun to play, but laddering with warlock is not so easy as month before. I'm still on rank8 at moment with winrate just little bit higher than 50%.
If you ask me, there is something wrong with the build and people are still copying the wrong list. It's just that the combo was already a lot of commitment, people even add more situational cards - and yes, the giants was a stupid inclusion from the start, since against aggro you can't really afford to tap in order to make the giants cheap, against Highlander - I personally think, that the burst damage from the Doomguards is the ONLY strategy people should aim for. Aggressively finding the chargers, copying only them and aiming to the face. Everything else is imho just too slow.
Tbh I'm considering making a thread about the flaws in the current cubelock versions - not just in Zalae's build, also in those with the N'Zoths and how people should be more critical when copying a deck. If you ask me people want their cubelock to be a multi-functional deck and this is where the problem starts. I think, that people just dilute them instead, I think it would be better to concentrate on a single strategy, which you will execute smoother - either going with the defensive strategy (only voidlords), or concentrating on the burst and aggressively setting up the doomguards for the DK - now the lackeys will bring less value anymore, but having reliable drops is imho more important (at least to me). Maybe, maybe not, but I'm more than 100% sure, that the current cubelock versions aren't build well, the chances of you drawing badly are increased and people should have a more clean and smooth game-play.
* Note - dunno why to explain it, but I'm really surprised, that people put greedy options in a COMBO deck. Why? Did worgen, patron warrior had value generating cards, do we see a Medivh in freeze mage or even in exodia mage? Anyfyn paladin, Malygos decks? Why do people play slow cards, the win-condition is either stabilizing (against aggro) or burst (against slow decks). Everything else is just unnecessary.
Every single pro that tested the deck for a 100+ games on legend is dumb, I'm the best hearthstone player and I know for a fact which is the absolute best list for a deck that has been around for less than a month.
Yeah, no.
As someone who has played the match up of HP against cubelock quite a lot already(mostly from the HP side), I advise everyone to not cut Mountain Giants. They are the biggest pain in the ass you can give the priest if played out early enough, and your deck is already so favored against aggro that there's no need to worry about it(the one aggro deck that beats you, tempo mage, won't care if you add more anti aggro cards).
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Im hoping im not a little too late for this....
I'd say if you had to choose between Umbra and Prince, go with Umbra.Not only can Umbra gain a lot of value IF left on the board. You usually want to gain your deathrattle effects in the same turn she's on. She also sees a lot of play in other death rattle decks like Hunter and Priest. 3 mana Prince is okay. He doesn't see play at all except in like meme decks, which I assume you don't play. He can swing boards really well, if used at the right time but you do have to complete a specification that isn't the best for warlock.
I feel like Umbra, Nzoth, and Taldram are nice tech options. Although i feel like Nzoth falls behind, taldram and Umbra are both fine. If you have 1 dont craft the other. If you have neithre... Both are good, so probably it will be fine either way, the difference is minimun.
Ill choose depending on other decks that you play and see if they are usefull there.
I play umbra in cubelock, only because I already had it. I would not craft it otherwise. Sometimes you can get some insane value off of the card.. but there are so many options with this deck, that I don't think any one card is necessary, other than maybe the lackeys and the demons
Seems ok.
Seems ok.
I want to say something, which I have said in some other threads and to some I may have gotten annoying with:
You don't need all those legendaries, you are just making the deck greedy.
If the meta was or if it gets slow, then YES, include more late-game stuff, include more support for the cubes, exhaust your opponents if you want to. You are going to profit, because you have all the time you need to do so, you won't be pressured from the start.
But in an environment, where aggro still has something to say, just respect that arch-type and adjust your deck accordingly. Improve your chances by adding Stonehill Defenders, why not Tar Creepers as well. But running several other expensive and clumsy minions is just asking for a punishment.
About Umbra - at the one hand I think she goes in this category, on the other however the whole point of cubelock was to abuse the chargers and the Deathknight, to multiply the good-quality demons, which also have some drawbacks. And Umbra contributes to this strategy and it would be kinda weird to make a deck without her, but if really somehow the aggro decks prevail in the meta, then she won't be really needed, as she would be kinda slow to deal with them.
it just remains that there are decks far easier to pilot that are much faster out there right now, so they have the higher win vs. loss rates.
vicious syndicate is all based on win/loss ratio so it makes sense that cubelock would look bad on there... it's still an amazing deck, but you're right... maybe holding off pumping tons of resources into this deck is best as it's not for everyone... after all it's a combo deck.
it's not ideal to have the weapon as a cube player, but it can cause your opponent to burn a silence stopping you from getting the weapon. I knew better than to do this though as it doesn't really benefit them all that much (and also they would be dead before they got any actual value from it)
So tbh it was your application of the word I wasn't really sure about. I think that clears it up though. You mean pseudo taunt as in it just acts as if it were a taunt because people will always go for it first.
I've no clue what I'm doing...
Editor of the Heartpwn Legendary Crafting Guide:
https://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/card-discussion/205920-legendary-tier-list-crafting-guide