Both paladin and shaman get completely destroyed by any control druid, priest, or hunter deck. Literally priest plays Psychic Scream when you have a paladin board and you have to hit concede. You lose all of your buffs and deathrattles, and you now have to worry about topdecking like 4 or 5 worthless cards when you need to push for lethal. Vs druid, they just Spreading Plague you at any given turn and all of a sudden, you're spending 3-5 of your cards to clear his 1 card, almost every time. Vs Warlock, they have a million taunts/healing and 2x Defile and 2x Despicable Dreadlord. Only viable paladin deck is going to be the deathknight OHTKO one and I mean 'viable' with a sarcastic tone.
I'll be surprised if we have even one standard paladin deck in T1 or T2 by the end of the K&C meta - before the next expansion hits. If we do, I'll be sure to say I was wrong and you were all correct. There's just too many strong T1/T2 contenders, though. If it happens, it'll be an uphill battle in the snow.
"Hmmmmm", hard to say. like every expansion, you have to test the cards to see how good they are. I will say this though, this expansion did give Paladin support in Wild with the cards Crystal Lion and Level Up! to help support Silver Hand Paladin in Wild. Should go something like this:
I am optimistic. Control paladin always is one step away from being T1-T2, but unlikely some other classes palaidn control decks have to wait for the meta to shape and adapt to it and are unlikely to be meta-defining decks such as secret paladin in the good old days.
I don't see why paladin should not have atleast a T2+ deck during this last expansion-cycle. Murloc paladin should be still very viable.
It seems like some of the people here "know" which decks are gonna be played and which cards are included in the decklists, when even the pro-players are not sure how the meta will look like.
I am optimistic. Control paladin always is one step away from being T1-T2, but unlikely some other classes palaidn control decks have to wait for the meta to shape and adapt to it and are unlikely to be meta-defining decks such as secret paladin in the good old days.
I don't see why paladin should not have atleast a T2+ deck during this last expansion-cycle. Murloc paladin should be still very viable.
It seems like some of the people here "know" which decks are gonna be played and which cards are included in the decklists, when even the pro-players are not sure how the meta will look like.
Nah, I am not certain. It's a guess on my part. But I think I'm on the right side of this guess, however anyone and everyone can be wrong.
Both paladin and shaman get completely destroyed by any control druid, priest, or hunter deck. Literally priest plays Psychic Scream when you have a paladin board and you have to hit concede. You lose all of your buffs and deathrattles, and you now have to worry about topdecking like 4 or 5 worthless cards when you need to push for lethal. Vs druid, they just Spreading Plague you at any given turn and all of a sudden, you're spending 3-5 of your cards to clear his 1 card, almost every time. Vs Warlock, they have a million taunts/healing and 2x Defile and 2x Despicable Dreadlord. Only viable paladin deck is going to be the deathknight OHTKO one and I mean 'viable' with a sarcastic tone.
Sadly I have to agree. I think we are in for a world of hurt.
I saw that hunter got a new 1 drop 1/3 beast, making all other cards somewhat irrelevant. All it has to do to stack up wins is dodge the new 4 mana priest drop and its on its way to a decent winrate again.
Everytime we get a new set people forget how OP the one drops in this game can be.
The issue is delaying the game as Paladin is only helping other control/ big classes. Going faster is almost impossible since there is so much good boardclear around.
Technicaly a T1–2 Pally deck would need a combo variation to finish the game.
The mole is actually neutral and if nothing else will also be used by aggro druid.
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Paladin, like druid and hunter, has a hard time clearing the board.
Although paladin is not in a bad shape like these 2 classes, relying on a combo with 2 cards, that costs 6 and wipes out the entire board is not really good. My reason to say that is because you whether have to keep one card in your hand during mulligan or you will have to top deck twice versus aggro/tempo. Regarding the cost, it's bad cause, if you play it on round 6, your opponent will most likely rebuild his board and you are behind again. I believe it's common sense, among main paladin's players, that in order to win a game you have to maximize your combo value.
I think paladin needs 3 things to get a tier 1 deck:
Some may argue that 3 is not a must, since druid, for example, doesn't have one and paladins have Aldo. But the difference here is that druid can ramp and take board control pretty easily, what is not the case for paladin and aldo only deals with damage, not effects.
I don't think paladin needs all 3 to become viable, but at least one of these factors should be addressed.
Paladin, like druid and hunter, has a hard time clearing the board.
Although paladin is not in a bad shape like these 2 classes, relying on a combo with 2 cards, that costs 6 and wipes out the entire board is not really good. My reason to say that is because you whether have to keep one card in your hand during mulligan or you will have to top deck twice versus aggro/tempo. Regarding the cost, it's bad cause, if you play it on round 6, your opponent will most likely rebuild his board and you are behind again. I believe it's common sense, among main paladin's players, that in order to win a game you have to maximize your combo value.
I think paladin needs 3 things to get a tier 1 deck:
Some may argue that 3 is not a must, since druid, for example, doesn't have one and paladins have Aldo. But the difference here is that druid can ramp and take board control pretty easily, what is not the case for paladin and aldo only deals with damage, not effects.
I don't think paladin needs all 3 to become viable, but at least one of these factors should be addressed.
I like your thoughts and would agree but I believe they are shying away from your point because ...
1 stronger eary game ( yes pls) but they have to do it carefully. Paladin has with Divine Favour one of the best (aggro) carddraw engines.
2 cheap boadremoval , doesn’t fit the theme right now. I don’t believe they would give Paladin a Whirlwind like aoe that also kills their own board( tokens) . A 2 mana consecration ( deal 1 dmg to all enemies) would make the original Cons obsolete and would feel lazy designed.
2 hard removal, now this is something they will never add to Paladin ( cause Pally has good Weapons?) .In Paladin it’s all about changeing stats Hammer of Wrath is probably the closest we get as a direct spell removal. Sadly this will make Paladin always weak to other classes early game minions ( those pesky 1/3s grrr)
Some were even mentioning Tirion could be the problem . Because he’s so strong that Paladin can’t have the best early game. Although I think he can’t make up for the weaknesses the class has....
Divine Favour didnt stop Blizz from giving a neutral tribe more tools to snowball the board with.
Cheap board removal wouldn't fit right now didnt stop them them from giving Priests Spirit Lash when previously they had board clear that cost 4~6 mana (Auchenai+CoH, Holy Nova, Dragonfire)
They would never give Paladin hard removal because...why? Stat manipulation? There are exactly seven stat manipulation cards in standard right now (Correct me if wrong), among those Equality wrecks your own board and/or requires that you have a minion on the board (yet they gave Paladin few tools to maintain and snowball the board, additionally by Equality you are also giving the opponent a chance to snowball the board against you) or a damage spell (which Paladins lack) or a weapon (of which the only one that was worth running previously was Truesilver). Humility and Aldor are good against minions that rely most on big beefy stats, which rarely see play these days unless it's absurdly strong, Tarim is good but is a 1-of legendary.
Also, add card draw or card generation to that list.
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Both paladin and shaman get completely destroyed by any control druid, priest, or hunter deck. Literally priest plays Psychic Scream when you have a paladin board and you have to hit concede. You lose all of your buffs and deathrattles, and you now have to worry about topdecking like 4 or 5 worthless cards when you need to push for lethal. Vs druid, they just Spreading Plague you at any given turn and all of a sudden, you're spending 3-5 of your cards to clear his 1 card, almost every time. Vs Warlock, they have a million taunts/healing and 2x Defile and 2x Despicable Dreadlord. Only viable paladin deck is going to be the deathknight OHTKO one and I mean 'viable' with a sarcastic tone.
I'll be surprised if we have even one standard paladin deck in T1 or T2 by the end of the K&C meta - before the next expansion hits. If we do, I'll be sure to say I was wrong and you were all correct. There's just too many strong T1/T2 contenders, though. If it happens, it'll be an uphill battle in the snow.
Its always funny to me how some people use “”our” when maining a class.
"Hmmmmm", hard to say. like every expansion, you have to test the cards to see how good they are. I will say this though, this expansion did give Paladin support in Wild with the cards Crystal Lion and Level Up! to help support Silver Hand Paladin in Wild. Should go something like this:
I am optimistic. Control paladin always is one step away from being T1-T2, but unlikely some other classes palaidn control decks have to wait for the meta to shape and adapt to it and are unlikely to be meta-defining decks such as secret paladin in the good old days.
I don't see why paladin should not have atleast a T2+ deck during this last expansion-cycle. Murloc paladin should be still very viable.
It seems like some of the people here "know" which decks are gonna be played and which cards are included in the decklists, when even the pro-players are not sure how the meta will look like.
The issue is delaying the game as Paladin is only helping other control/ big classes. Going faster is almost impossible since there is so much good boardclear around.
Technicaly a T1–2 Pally deck would need a combo variation to finish the game.
The mole is actually neutral and if nothing else will also be used by aggro druid.
Regarding control paladin:
Paladin, like druid and hunter, has a hard time clearing the board.
Although paladin is not in a bad shape like these 2 classes, relying on a combo with 2 cards, that costs 6 and wipes out the entire board is not really good. My reason to say that is because you whether have to keep one card in your hand during mulligan or you will have to top deck twice versus aggro/tempo. Regarding the cost, it's bad cause, if you play it on round 6, your opponent will most likely rebuild his board and you are behind again.
I believe it's common sense, among main paladin's players, that in order to win a game you have to maximize your combo value.
I think paladin needs 3 things to get a tier 1 deck:
1 - Stronger early game (2 drops or removals on turn 2)
2 - Cheaper board removal (not a hard core, something like Spirit Lash, Defile, Unleash the Hounds, Ravaging Ghoul)
3 - A hard removal (Deadly Shot, Execute, Shield Slam, power word: death, Polymorph)
Some may argue that 3 is not a must, since druid, for example, doesn't have one and paladins have Aldo. But the difference here is that druid can ramp and take board control pretty easily, what is not the case for paladin and aldo only deals with damage, not effects.
I don't think paladin needs all 3 to become viable, but at least one of these factors should be addressed.
Divine Favour didnt stop Blizz from giving a neutral tribe more tools to snowball the board with.
Cheap board removal wouldn't fit right now didnt stop them them from giving Priests Spirit Lash when previously they had board clear that cost 4~6 mana (Auchenai+CoH, Holy Nova, Dragonfire)
They would never give Paladin hard removal because...why? Stat manipulation? There are exactly seven stat manipulation cards in standard right now (Correct me if wrong), among those Equality wrecks your own board and/or requires that you have a minion on the board (yet they gave Paladin few tools to maintain and snowball the board, additionally by Equality you are also giving the opponent a chance to snowball the board against you) or a damage spell (which Paladins lack) or a weapon (of which the only one that was worth running previously was Truesilver). Humility and Aldor are good against minions that rely most on big beefy stats, which rarely see play these days unless it's absurdly strong, Tarim is good but is a 1-of legendary.
Also, add card draw or card generation to that list.