Hearthpwn

Quote from Flood jump

Quote from HearthMasterJKROFLMAO jump

Lol well if you cant back it up with constructive criticism then ima just ignore it ;P

I dont need to back it up. its common sense its honestly like you just put all the shit cards in a deck without any thought and called it an archetype that isnt even close too

total shit 

I've been on this site for a long time (before my actual join date because i lurked for a while) and this is the first time I've seen you be a prick to a person just asking for help on a random build. You'd think that someone of your deck building caliber would be a bit more humble. Shame on you for being a piece of shit towards someone just seeking a bit of guidance and constructive input. Be a better example for a community that you've been apart of for so long especially if he's a new player. If you can't find a change, become it smh 

Legendary class spells, yes plz xD

Grats Realz!

I want to see the heroic card back plox BLIZZ..

I think people should use real money to support the game period. Great game no need to not support if you can.

Now all we need is the release date!! go go go BLIZZ!! Also stlil no news of gold version?? hmmm??

Quote from Riosix »

Telling signs it comes out next week:

• The class cards reveal is over sometime today with the Hunter card. With the previous neutral card releases, it was completely random how many and which ones they showed. The class cards have been a solid 9 week countdown, I would be surprised if they went back to revealing neutrals again now. They must be counting down to something.
• As stated before, Naxx will be released over a 5 week period. Regardless of when the Earth aligns with Jupiter or if your girlfriend only gets her period during solstice, the general consensus of Summer is June 1st - September 1st based on school releases. Having Naxx run the length of July makes is the most logical since it is the heart of summer.
• A July launch would space perfectly with Warlords of Draenor this Winter, allowing for Blizzards common 6 month wait between content.
• Julys card back hasent been revealed yet. I'm sure it's Naxx based, they will reveal it along with the launch of the adventure.
• Because the folks at Blizz are smart and pay attention....they know we need new content and we need it now.

Smoochies

 

Makes sense. I feel Naxx will most likely come out at the end of this month or during gamescon. It would only make sense for them to reveal it at the booth or hopefully sooner for us long time players that have been waiting forever for new content so hopefully at the start of the new July season with the reveal of a Naxx card back as well.

I don't think they are going to reveal every card before the set is actually released. that is kind of silly because then you have nothing to look forward to as far as post meta builds. It would suck if the meta is made before the set even comes out. This is not MTG lol

Seems every Class is going to have synergy with DR which is a good thing because then there won't be any class that will have a problem building a DR deck, but the meta might be full of everything DR o.o Sadly the Legendary creature only triggers minions not weapons.

Quote from Darkbladecr »

Looking at these cards, looks like a lot of 4 attack power, from minions and weapons I guess. Priest is going to have some problems...

I"m pretty sure they'll have something decent for priest because its one of the weakest classes right now. If they don't then Blizz is anti priest for what ever reason. 

This is a deck I am very exited about. If he meta becomes control focused the Paladin hero power will have a massive amount of value consistently in control match ups. 

Lets start with paladin auto includes: 

• 2x Shielded Minibot
• 2x Muster For Battle
• 2x Truesilver Champian 
• 2x Concecration 
• 2x Aldor Peacekeeper
• 2x Equality 
• 1x Lay on Hands
• 1x Tirion Fordring

Now lets add the must have Dragon Synergy

• 2x Twilight Guardian - great card, 6 health so it lives through deaths bite's second charge.
• 2x Blackwing Technician - 5 health on a 3 drop is insane 
• 2x Dragon consort - the reason this deck is here. So strong, because dragons are all so impact full and a turn 7 ysera vs midrange is GG if they cant answer it.
• 1x Chillmaw - the end of zoo, can break midrange decks down. silencing this can often be good because it is a gamble weather it would activate anyway,so the opp might not be able to silence tirion.
• 1x Ysera - Just value, very bad against warrior, but Paladin is already strong against warrior.
• 1x Alexstraza - One of the biggest impact legendaries in control mirriors
• ?x Blackwing Corruptor - With the multitude of 5 drops I am not sure if we could run this card. coining out a 5 drop is often hard because of the multitude of 4 drops as well.

Auto include neutrals:

• 2x Belcher - so hard to remove, slows the game down so much. Amazing VS combo decks.
• Emperor - with so much late game this is a must have just like control warrior.
• Dr. Boom - high impact, gets back board control.

Other things.

So now the deck is mostly full. with 27/30 card already in place that leaves 3 spots for tech.

 I think I would want to run

• 2x Tuskarr Jouster
• 1x Enter the Coliseum - This card
• 1x BGH - kinda a must have for a control meta
• 1x Eadric the Pure
• 1x zombie chow
• 1x Kezan Mystic 
• 1x Sylvanas Windrunner
• 1x Harrison
• 1x Owl

Problems right here ^

It is impossible to tell what tech every deck will need to run just yet. But for now we can make a base list

Quote from CrankiiFrankii jump

Quote from Flood jump

Quote from HearthMasterJKROFLMAO jump

Lol well if you cant back it up with constructive criticism then ima just ignore it ;P

I dont need to back it up. its common sense its honestly like you just put all the shit cards in a deck without any thought and called it an archetype that isnt even close too

total shit 

I've been on this site for a long time (before my actual join date because i lurked for a while) and this is the first time I've seen you be a prick to a person just asking for help on a random build. You'd think that someone of your deck building caliber would be a bit more humble. Shame on you for being a piece of shit towards someone just seeking a bit of guidance and constructive input. Be a better example for a community that you've been apart of for so long especially if he's a new player. If you can't find a change, become it smh 

I'm so glad you said this!  Exactly what I was thinking. 

Despite hating on this, I guarantee this can see play if put in a correctly built deck.

Imagine this: Turn 4 you play Dreadsteed. The other player laughs. Kill it or not, you know the other player isn't going to waste a silence on it. Turn 5 rolls around and you still have your dreadsteed. You play Baron Rivendare and run the Dreadsteed into something they have on the board. You now have 2 Dreadsteed. You use your 5th mana to Mortal Coil your own Dreadsteed drawing a card in the process. You now have 3 very sticky minions on the board and a Baron Rivendare. They now have to waste removal on your baron, nullifying most of their turn so your dreadsteeds can finish what they dropped the previous turn. Now they are in an awkward position: You use your 3 dreadsteeds as 3 weapon damage (that doesn't hurt your face) each and every turn. They don't have enough silence in their deck or polymorphs to deal with the 3 the rest of the game, nor can they afford too if you are running huge minions.

You now play your Anima Golem, Void Terror, Demonheart, Mal'Ganis, the rest of the game without much problem. You can even run Twisting Nether if the meta goes huge tanky Taunts or heavy control.

Your Deck's Weakness is obviously priest with their Mass Dispel, Mindgames, and Cabal Shadow Priest. Still, I can see it having potential.

Gee, I wish there was a deck that had an insane number of taunts and great AOE removal with good card draw and large heals. Oh wait, that's what handlock's for... If you're upset about Patron Warrior, play handlock, it's that simple.

Don't want to play handlock? Too many hunters and Patron Warriors? I sure with there was a deck that had minions all over 3 attack, with the biggest AOE in the game and good removal as well. Oh wait, Oil Rogue has all of those and is considered a 70-30 match up with Patron Warrior.

Don't Complain, use your brain!

Destroy?  You guys need to think bigger (or smaller).  Why not a gnomish or goblin betrayer who steals secrets?  This may seem like 2x value - destroy a secret and play a secret - but it's partially balanced by your opponent knowing what the secret is, considering it was his last turn.  Or, of course, it could just copy secrets, both revealing the opponent's strategy and giving the value of a free secret on your side.

I hate secrets as much as anybody, but what I hate more is homogeneity and obliterating mechanics to the point of being nonviable.  Everyone seems so keen on a 3/2 2 mana with secret removal - where's the fun in that?  No downside if it misses, tremendous value if it hits but it's not particularly fun.  Just like they said filling the game with silences is no way to address powerful minions, tossing in basic secret removal is an uninspired way to deal with powerful secret decks.

I love this community, already building decks with less than 1/4 the cards. 

uh... priest is the weakest class in the game...

how bad are you at hearthstone anyway

1) Absolutely!  I have a notebook I keep next to my computer thats filled with iteration after iteration of my favorite several decks, as I tune each one to exactly my playstyle. 

2) You totally can tune any style of deck, but you have to tune them differently. Aggro decks, I tend to break down into "the creature curve" and "the efficient removal." I've found that, for me, an aggro deck has to have at the minimum, 4x1, 6x2, 4x3, 2x4 cc creatures for me to get enough optimal plays that I'm satisfied with it. 

OTOH, my Ramp Druid deck I currently run only 2 1-drops and 2 3-drops because I don't care that much about the early game, and I mulligan hard for Wild Growth so I can skip 3-drops and move straight to 4-drops.  It's actually the same curve, but I calculated the odds of drawing Wild Growth and Nourish before the turns I want them, and then moved that percentage of my cards up by that number of extra mana crystals.  Other midrange decks tune similarly, but without all the complex math. :) 

And for control decks, naturally, you have to tune to an entirely different set of expectations. My control decks I try to tune so that I can cancel the enemy's early game by turn 3 or 4 with as few cards as possible, and then keep control from that point on. It's OK for a control deck to do jack squat for the first few turns as long as it's been tuned to dominate from turn 3-4 on. 

3) I think the concepts that I use when tuning other decks are equally straightforward, just different. ALL of them need consistency, that's absolutely core to making a deck that can ladder well. But what 'consistency' means is different for each archetype. 

• For Combo decks, 'consistency' means 'drawing the combo by the time you have the mana to make it go off.'  You achieve combo consistency by loading up on all the cantrips and draw-cards you can without sacrificing your early game to the point that an aggro deck will curbstomp you while you fill your hand.
• For Midrange decks, 'consistency' means 'able to get the most effective creatures for the mana available out on turns 3+'. The big place that, IMX, midrange decks go bad with consistency is when they have so many 4+cc minions that they regularly don't have a solid 3cc that won't die instantly to a Bloodfen Raptor by turn 3. 
  
• For Control decks, 'consistency' means 'consistently surviving far enough into the game that your power cards can take over and dominate.' That's perhaps the most difficult of the three to judge, because each class has its own power cards and its own methods of survival. A control Warrior that survives via Weapons + Armor is going to look very different, consistency-wise, than a control Mage that survives by selectively nuking only the most dire threats until they can lock down with Frost Nova+Doomsayer or Flamestrike. 

Similarly, efficiency means different things to each category. 

• A control deck isn't worried about mana-efficiency as much, but is terribly worried about card-efficiency. A control deck thrives on being able to remove X threats with X-Y cards, because it's the leftover cards that allow the control deck to heal up, establish an uncontested board presence, and eventually win.
• A midrange deck isn't worried about mana-efficiency in terms of 'using all your mana per turn', but is terribly concerned with what I'm going to arbitrarily call value efficiency. In other words, a midrange deck needs to establish a presence starting around turn 3-4 that will efficiently trade with the aggro deck's rush and efficiently deal lethal damage before a control deck can take control. They need every mana they spend to have the largest possible effect per card, but they don't necessarily have to spend all their mana every turn through the first few turns. 
  
• A combo deck isn't worried about efficiency much at all other than "how can I get my combo to win me the game as efficiently as possible," which is largely already covered by 'consistency', above. :)

I was going to blather on even longer, but I've gotta bail. Maybe I'll come back for more. We'll see. :)

So, I've been playing Hearthstone causally now for about 10 months. During this time I've never had an experience like the one I've had recently when playing Pyro's Season 5 Legendary Zoo Deck

The deck just feels so "tuned in"... and by "tuned in" I mean efficent (use all my mana every turn), reliable (good starting hands & have or get the cards I need early enough to matter) and consistent (performs similarly across many games). I've used that deck quite a few times now and it is definitely the best "feeling"  deck I've played with so far- and I have easily logged over 6,000 total games played. It got me to wondering about the concept of tuning decks.

So, last night I decided to try to take this concept further by comparing gaming experiences between this Zoolock deck and my highly-inconsistent-but-very-powerful-when-it-wants-to-be Shockadin deck. I could immediately tell a huge difference in the flow of the game. Whereas with the Zoolock, I would easily use up my mana every turn advantageously, with my Shockadin deck that was not always the case. I would get bad starting hands with nothing to play until turn 3 or it'd be late game and I would not have drawn either of my Divine Favors, or I'd have to play my only 1 drop on turn 2 etc... as this continued across a few games it quickly became very frustrating to play and ultimately- I found myself blaming RNG.

I now firmly believe it is not all due to RNG, it is mostly me and the way I (or others) put together a deck. I know this because I've since been able to tune in my Shockadin deck based on the principles I discovered when playing the Zoolock deck and now it feels a lot stronger and a lot more consistent. I still have some issues with card draw but yet I am still winning games. The deck is not finely tuned yet but, it is markedly ahead of its predecessor in all aspects of tuning criteria that I mentioned earlier.

I think a good mana curve is a critical component of the tuning process but it does not address tuning entirely. For instance, you could have a nice aggro mana curve but if all your 1-cost cards are spells, what are you going to play on turn-1 if you don't have the coin? I think this example speaks to the fact that mana curve, in and of itself, does not equal tuning. Tuning seems to be something that you "feel" over the course of a few games and it's personal. The deck is either performing for you or it isn't.

IMHO, I think that the same deck to different people can feel tuned or untuned due to their playstyle, so tuning really is a deeply personal experience. That's why you'll see the pros take a deck to Rank 1 and when you try the very same deck- you're not able to get it past rank 12. It has been tuned to their playstyle and not yours. (So, I suggest when playing those types of decks be mindful of the three aspects of tuning I mentioned earlier and don't be afraid to change it up to suit your style- more than likely you'll have to change it anyway to find success. ex. Kolento's Druid Deck Season 6 sucks for me... took me back to Rank 20!)  Also, unless you are really lucky or supremely skilled at deck building, I do not think you can tune a deck by theorycrafting it... you have to play it more than a few times to get the feel.

For the "few" others like me out there that have played and have also met with frustrations and have also subsequently blamed RNG... I hope this thread serves as some sort of solace in that you can do something to make it so RNG is not as prominent a factor. I will be steadfastly embracing the idea of deck tuning- and focus on building efficient, reliable and consistent decks going forward and I hope this thread helps some in their future Hearthstone deckbuilding endeavors as well.  I also encourage you to try the Zoolock deck posted above and maybe you'll see for yourself what I am talking about. For me it was a very eye opening experience resulting in a paradigm shift in my deck building strategy and I have seen the light. Legendary... I'm pretty sure I'll be seeing you soon. 

I have some questions for readers and deckbuilders...

1) Is tuning something you pay attention to or are aware of when playing or creating decks?
2) Is tuning only viable in aggro decks or can you tune any style deck?
3) Besides the three I mentioned (and mana curve), are there any other core concepts people use when tuning their aggro? Control? Midrange? Combo? etc...?

Realz on the development team ? That's pretty damn awesome, he's a great player who will surely only improve the state of the game : )