Hearthpwn

Quote from linvega2 »

How come that seemingly everyone who is complaining about netdecking happens to play unimaginative decks like inner fire decks, shadow form decks, hobgoblin decks, etc. ? I mean, it's not that these decks aren't played because nobody came up with them before, quite the opposite, they are very obvious and one-dimensional; They're not played because they lack consistence and/or are even plain bad.

Basically, this kind of people doesn't understand of the mechanics of this game works. They prefer what they consider to be cool rather then what is cool... consistency, winning and having fun in the process.

The main 'problem' with this game is that the cards are so powerful that if you have even the slightest objective besides simply winning instead of losing, you will lose quite frequently.  It's actually pretty hard core in terms of PvP.  This isn't to say you have to play this way.  I play 'fun' decks all the time.  You just have to be OK, from an emotional standpoint, of likely losing to every ladder deck if you do so and don't get huge RNG.

Quote from Ogobum »

The main 'problem' with this game is that the cards are so powerful that if you have even the slightest objective besides simply winning instead of losing, you will lose quite frequently.  It's actually pretty hard core in terms of PvP.  This isn't to say you have to play this way.  I play 'fun' decks all the time.  You just have to be OK, from an emotional standpoint, of likely losing to every ladder deck if you do so and don't get huge RNG.

Mixing emotions with an online game is never, never, a good idea. Of course, ''fun'' decks are fun to play. But they are far from being consistent against what is designed to win... 

Quote from linvega2 »

How come that seemingly everyone who is complaining about netdecking happens to play unimaginative decks like inner fire decks, shadow form decks, hobgoblin decks, etc. ? I mean, it's not that these decks aren't played because nobody came up with them before, quite the opposite, they are very obvious and one-dimensional; They're not played because they lack consistence and/or are even plain bad.

You haven't seen the shadowform deck, as far as you know , some pro or nobody has done it before so it must be awful. Perhaps someone has thought about making one of these decks but nobody has really been successful at it. Have you even thought outside your little box once and tried to make something different that works? Or do you just think your good while netdecking everything. 

Why can't people just play for fun on ranked?

Quote from Ururt »

Why can't people just play for fun on ranked?

You can, nobody is keeping you from it ... on the contrary, most players will gladly take the free wins against your gimmicky decks ...

On a more serious note: I posted about this elsewhere (http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/33805-on-netdecking-intoducing-a-concept-from-mtg): There is different approaches on this game, you can not, however, expect that you can go "gimmicky" at this game while having the same winrate competitive Players with tried decks have ...  So it is yours to decide, but either demand the "beach or the mountains" and not the "mountainous beach"!!!

Yeah, we discussed this as well in the other thread: A good idea voiced by somebody was the idea of player generated "custom" modes where you can for example ban certain classes and so on ...

Quote from Jakabov »

The game will always have a collection of decks that perform the best. There's nothing wrong with that. It's completely inevitable, just like WoW had talent builds that were staples and Starcraft had optimal build orders etc. This is fundamental to any game where you have a limited number of choices and have to pick the best options.

There's no point complaining about this, nor is there anything wrong with players choosing to play the established and proven decks. The anti-netdecking complaints are a crutch and excuse from people who need some reason why they lost, or can't compete at the top so they choose the handicap of playing original decks so they don't have to compete.

That's more common than you'd think, too. A lot of players suffer from ladder anxiety or find that they don't have the mental endurance to lose about half of their matches unless they can dress it up as "it's because I don't netdeck," with the unspoken implication of "I would be competing with the best if I did." It just becomes a kind of self-delusion.

In sports, people use the best equipment they can get. In games, people use the best builds/decks/whatever they can get. The only real goal in Hearthstone is winning, so why should people not do their best?

Get over it.

Such bullshit. What don't you get? It's not because people are losing that they hate playing this game or find it boring, its because its the same fukn game over and over again. You know why games fall off, cause you beat it then it's not fun going through the second or third time again and again. You lose interest.. Games fun, you beat it, you don't feel like playing anymore because it's already been done.. Same with this game.. It's fun, then meta, then netdeck, then same grind over and over, not fun.. WIN OR LOSE, it sucks. It's not because people can't win that they complain about netdecks, it's because it makes the game stale. 

Log on, do your dailys and log out.. Won 3-5 games in a row or lose 10 and then complete daily, makes no difference. Once that daily is done, its log out time. Game sucks. Clinging on in hopes to enjoy another match is fading fast.

Quote from Tktoast »

Quote from Jakabov »

The game will always have a collection of decks that perform the best. There's nothing wrong with that. It's completely inevitable, just like WoW had talent builds that were staples and Starcraft had optimal build orders etc. This is fundamental to any game where you have a limited number of choices and have to pick the best options.

There's no point complaining about this, nor is there anything wrong with players choosing to play the established and proven decks. The anti-netdecking complaints are a crutch and excuse from people who need some reason why they lost, or can't compete at the top so they choose the handicap of playing original decks so they don't have to compete.

That's more common than you'd think, too. A lot of players suffer from ladder anxiety or find that they don't have the mental endurance to lose about half of their matches unless they can dress it up as "it's because I don't netdeck," with the unspoken implication of "I would be competing with the best if I did." It just becomes a kind of self-delusion.

In sports, people use the best equipment they can get. In games, people use the best builds/decks/whatever they can get. The only real goal in Hearthstone is winning, so why should people not do their best?

Get over it.

Such bullshit. What don't you get? It's not because people are losing that they hate playing this game or find it boring, its because its the same fukn game over and over again. You know why games fall off, cause you beat it then it's not fun going through the second or third time again and again. You lose interest.. Games fun, you beat it, you don't feel like playing anymore because it's already been done.. Same with this game.. It's fun, then meta, then netdeck, then same grind over and over, not fun.. WIN OR LOSE, it sucks. It's not because people can't win that they complain about netdecks, it's because it makes the game stale. 

Log on, do your dailys and log out.. Won 3-5 games in a row or lose 10 and then complete daily, makes no difference. Once that daily is done, its log out time. Game sucks. Clinging on in hopes to enjoy another match is fading fast.

 

Of course, you have the truth and nobody can prove you wrong I guess. Nope. Such bullshit. People hate playing the game, go away. On my climb to Legend, those 4 last seasons, I always had fun, so my friends does. We did not reach Legend every month but we had fun in the process at evaluating what where the better decks each week (or each day) focusing on understanding the meta.

You are talking of this game as a robot playing it. Do this, do that. Log out. Where is fun in your world ? Dead. I feel sorry for you. You are not the average player of Hearthstone who enjoys card game for what they are... playing games of card with decks built around a collection you have.

 It's fun, then meta, then netdeck, then same grind over and over, not fun.. WIN OR LOSE, it sucks. 

Then meta, then netdeck ? No, it's no this way. Netdecking and meta are two concepts that existed way before Hearthstone existed and that were automatically added in Hearthstone since they are parts of any competitive card game (like Pokmen, MTG, Yu-Gi-Oh). The game doesn't sucks like you are trying to prove us. You sucks at enjoying the game. 

Quote from Remhouse »

Quote from Tktoast »

Quote from Jakabov »

The game will always have a collection of decks that perform the best. There's nothing wrong with that. It's completely inevitable, just like WoW had talent builds that were staples and Starcraft had optimal build orders etc. This is fundamental to any game where you have a limited number of choices and have to pick the best options.

There's no point complaining about this, nor is there anything wrong with players choosing to play the established and proven decks. The anti-netdecking complaints are a crutch and excuse from people who need some reason why they lost, or can't compete at the top so they choose the handicap of playing original decks so they don't have to compete.

That's more common than you'd think, too. A lot of players suffer from ladder anxiety or find that they don't have the mental endurance to lose about half of their matches unless they can dress it up as "it's because I don't netdeck," with the unspoken implication of "I would be competing with the best if I did." It just becomes a kind of self-delusion.

In sports, people use the best equipment they can get. In games, people use the best builds/decks/whatever they can get. The only real goal in Hearthstone is winning, so why should people not do their best?

Get over it.

Such bullshit. What don't you get? It's not because people are losing that they hate playing this game or find it boring, its because its the same fukn game over and over again. You know why games fall off, cause you beat it then it's not fun going through the second or third time again and again. You lose interest.. Games fun, you beat it, you don't feel like playing anymore because it's already been done.. Same with this game.. It's fun, then meta, then netdeck, then same grind over and over, not fun.. WIN OR LOSE, it sucks. It's not because people can't win that they complain about netdecks, it's because it makes the game stale. 

Log on, do your dailys and log out.. Won 3-5 games in a row or lose 10 and then complete daily, makes no difference. Once that daily is done, its log out time. Game sucks. Clinging on in hopes to enjoy another match is fading fast.

 

Of course, you have the truth and nobody can prove you wrong I guess. Nope. Such bullshit. People hate playing the game, go away. On my climb to Legend, those 4 last seasons, I always had fun, so my friends does. We did not reach Legend every month but we had fun in the process at evaluating what where the better decks each week (or each day) focusing on understanding the meta.

You are talking of this game as a robot playing it. Do this, do that. Log out. Where is fun in your world ? Dead. I feel sorry for you. You are not the average player of Hearthstone who enjoys card game for what they are... playing games of card with decks built around a collection you have.

 It's fun, then meta, then netdeck, then same grind over and over, not fun.. WIN OR LOSE, it sucks. 

Then meta, then netdeck ? No, it's no this way. Netdecking and meta are two concepts that existed way before Hearthstone existed and that were automatically added in Hearthstone since they are parts of any competitive card game (like Pokmen, MTG, Yu-Gi-Oh). The game doesn't sucks like you are trying to prove us. You sucks at enjoying the game. 

Hey, I have fun playing with friends, testing and making new decks. I still enjoy that, however alot of friends are feeling the same and aren't logging on any more, moving on to new games that are fresh and exciting. For fun, I play DotA. 

What i Mean by meta, then netdeck is. A new meta appears, someone posts a new deck on here, then the sheep follow and the game is now play this or don't get to legend. I've never cared about hitting legend, but I'm pretty competitive person so I like playing ladder because you tend to play better players, however, facing the same decks over and over and over again, not so much fun.. Log out, play dota, play H1z1, play something else.. It's to bad because this game was really cool when I first started playing it, now it's a choir or ya, u become a robot having to follow suit. Lame.

Everyday, you can see new posts from new people with the exact same realizations that Im posting. Tons of people are feeling the same way.. your not one of them. Way to go. 

Quote from Tktoast »

Quote from Remhouse »

Quote from Tktoast »

Quote from Jakabov »

The game will always have a collection of decks that perform the best. There's nothing wrong with that. It's completely inevitable, just like WoW had talent builds that were staples and Starcraft had optimal build orders etc. This is fundamental to any game where you have a limited number of choices and have to pick the best options.

There's no point complaining about this, nor is there anything wrong with players choosing to play the established and proven decks. The anti-netdecking complaints are a crutch and excuse from people who need some reason why they lost, or can't compete at the top so they choose the handicap of playing original decks so they don't have to compete.

That's more common than you'd think, too. A lot of players suffer from ladder anxiety or find that they don't have the mental endurance to lose about half of their matches unless they can dress it up as "it's because I don't netdeck," with the unspoken implication of "I would be competing with the best if I did." It just becomes a kind of self-delusion.

In sports, people use the best equipment they can get. In games, people use the best builds/decks/whatever they can get. The only real goal in Hearthstone is winning, so why should people not do their best?

Get over it.

Such bullshit. What don't you get? It's not because people are losing that they hate playing this game or find it boring, its because its the same fukn game over and over again. You know why games fall off, cause you beat it then it's not fun going through the second or third time again and again. You lose interest.. Games fun, you beat it, you don't feel like playing anymore because it's already been done.. Same with this game.. It's fun, then meta, then netdeck, then same grind over and over, not fun.. WIN OR LOSE, it sucks. It's not because people can't win that they complain about netdecks, it's because it makes the game stale. 

Log on, do your dailys and log out.. Won 3-5 games in a row or lose 10 and then complete daily, makes no difference. Once that daily is done, its log out time. Game sucks. Clinging on in hopes to enjoy another match is fading fast.

 

Of course, you have the truth and nobody can prove you wrong I guess. Nope. Such bullshit. People hate playing the game, go away. On my climb to Legend, those 4 last seasons, I always had fun, so my friends does. We did not reach Legend every month but we had fun in the process at evaluating what where the better decks each week (or each day) focusing on understanding the meta.

You are talking of this game as a robot playing it. Do this, do that. Log out. Where is fun in your world ? Dead. I feel sorry for you. You are not the average player of Hearthstone who enjoys card game for what they are... playing games of card with decks built around a collection you have.

 It's fun, then meta, then netdeck, then same grind over and over, not fun.. WIN OR LOSE, it sucks. 

Then meta, then netdeck ? No, it's no this way. Netdecking and meta are two concepts that existed way before Hearthstone existed and that were automatically added in Hearthstone since they are parts of any competitive card game (like Pokmen, MTG, Yu-Gi-Oh). The game doesn't sucks like you are trying to prove us. You sucks at enjoying the game. 

Hey, I have fun playing with friends, testing and making new decks. I still enjoy that, however alot of friends are feeling the same and aren't logging on any more, moving on to new games that are fresh and exciting. For fun, I play DotA. 

What i Mean by meta, then netdeck is. A new meta appears, someone posts a new deck on here, then the sheep follow and the game is now play this or don't get to legend. I've never cared about hitting legend, but I'm pretty competitive person so I like playing ladder because you tend to play better players, however, facing the same decks over and over and over again, not so much fun.. Log out, play dota, play H1z1, play something else.. It's to bad because this game was really cool when I first started playing it, now it's a choir or ya, u become a robot having to follow suit. Lame.

Everyday, you can see new posts from new people with the exact same realizations that Im posting. Tons of people are feeling the same way.. your not one of them. Way to go. 

Game is still cool. You just failed at enjoying  it for what it really is., Maybe you are losing too much... can't do a shit for you no this matters.

Meta and netdeck are fine. That's what is fun about this game. That's where I introduce Flame Imp in my Handlock deck (with Zombie Chow) to grind it to Legend and counter aggro decks.

Quote from Tktoast »

Quote from linvega2 »

How come that seemingly everyone who is complaining about netdecking happens to play unimaginative decks like inner fire decks, shadow form decks, hobgoblin decks, etc. ? I mean, it's not that these decks aren't played because nobody came up with them before, quite the opposite, they are very obvious and one-dimensional; They're not played because they lack consistence and/or are even plain bad.

You haven't seen the shadowform deck, as far as you know , some pro or nobody has done it before so it must be awful. Perhaps someone has thought about making one of these decks but nobody has really been successful at it. Have you even thought outside your little box once and tried to make something different that works? Or do you just think your good while netdecking everything. 

Did you even read my post? That was my point ; Every single player tries around with these decks in the beginning (including me) and still once in a while, but then you carry on because they're, as said, not really good. It's a learning experience.

And that's the thing: You aren't "trying something different that works". You are playing relatively unimaginative archetypes that are handed to you from the game - which I wouldn't mind if you wouldn't complain so hypocritically about the lack of creativity.

Quote from linvega2 »

Quote from Tktoast »

Quote from linvega2 »

How come that seemingly everyone who is complaining about netdecking happens to play unimaginative decks like inner fire decks, shadow form decks, hobgoblin decks, etc. ? I mean, it's not that these decks aren't played because nobody came up with them before, quite the opposite, they are very obvious and one-dimensional; They're not played because they lack consistence and/or are even plain bad.

You haven't seen the shadowform deck, as far as you know , some pro or nobody has done it before so it must be awful. Perhaps someone has thought about making one of these decks but nobody has really been successful at it. Have you even thought outside your little box once and tried to make something different that works? Or do you just think your good while netdecking everything. 

Did you even read my post? That was my point ; Every single player tries around with these decks in the beginning (including me) and still once in a while, but then you carry on because they're, as said, not really good. It's a learning experience.

And that's the thing: You aren't "trying something different that works". You are playing relatively unimaginative archetypes that are handed to you from the game - which I wouldn't mind if you wouldn't complain so hypocritically about the lack of creativity.

These threads make you a "Don Quichote", fighting the windmils of "omg I hate netdecking" over, and over, and over,... again. Kudos for keeping it up ;)

Quote from fabisco »

These threads make you a "Don Quichote", fighting the windmils of "omg I hate netdecking" over, and over, and over,... again. Kudos for keeping it up ;)

Thanks.

What I'm also baffled about is that just because I don't hate netdecking, I'm automically assumed to only play netdecks and not try different decks at all. In reality, playing around with decks is how I spend most of my HS time. I just don't hate people who do it different.

The only thing that is wrong with this game is the increasing amount of noobs who have no idea how TCG and CCG work.

For those moaners, get this into that thick skull of yours: There will ALWAYS be less cards like Chillwind Yeti and more cards like Wisp. Constructed will ALWAYS be dominated by COMPETITIVE players who play the BEST decks. And no, there isn't an infinite number of BEST decks. At any point of time, there will be not more than 5 top tier decks, that's how TCG and CCG works. Same decks over and over again in a competitive environment, it is to be expected.

Oh, and Casual IS a competitive platform. You know why? Because it rewards gold, players want gold (duh). Nobody in their right mind would want to play anything other than the most optimum deck, if they want to win. So, you are facing top tier decks over and over again because, wait for it, there are A LOT of players who want to win. Shocking, i know.

Quote from linvega2 »

Quote from fabisco »

These threads make you a "Don Quichote", fighting the windmils of "omg I hate netdecking" over, and over, and over,... again. Kudos for keeping it up ;)

Thanks.

What I'm also baffled about is that just because I don't hate netdecking, I'm automically assumed to only play netdecks and not try different decks at all. In reality, playing around with decks is how I spend most of my HS time. I just don't hate people who do it different.

Quote from Tahladnas »

The only thing that is wrong with this game is the increasing amount of noobs who have no idea how TCG and CCG work.

For those moaners, get this into that thick skull of yours: There will ALWAYS be less cards like Chillwind Yeti and more cards like Wisp. Constructed will ALWAYS be dominated by COMPETITIVE players who play the BEST decks. And no, there isn't an infinite number of BEST decks. At any point of time, there will be not more than 5 top tier decks, that's how TCG and CCG works. Same decks over and over again in a competitive environment, it is to be expected.

Oh, and Casual IS a competitive platform. You know why? Because it rewards gold, players want gold (duh). Nobody in their right mind would want to play anything other than the most optimum deck, if they want to win. So, you are facing top tier decks over and over again because, wait for it, there are A LOT of players who want to win. Shocking, i know.

Jup guys ;) but it will probably never change, it is, however, constantly baffling me as well. Sure, I had a MTG "career" before Hearthstone, which "teached" me the way ccgs are usually shaping up ... but mostly, these teachings come down to a simple understanding of human behaviour and responses to incentives in a more or less hermetical system (called Hearthstone): It is a game of limited ressources and combinations that are not equally efficient. So usually, a "swarm" of more or less (here, rather less) intelligent beings will discover "optimal" configurations and distribute them across a channel of communication called the "Interwebs", as long as the incentive of the game is just winning for almost everybody (and even the "haters" want to win, otherwise they wouldn't hate) almost everybody will play "the best deck".

A sidenote (and this is really MTG teachings): The often cited "bigger cardpool" will probably not change these "problems" much. The developpers will come to a point where they have to indroduce "formats" with limited carpools, otherwise the game will be a constant power creep to make the people want to play the new cards ... These smaller formats will then be an up and down of power levels. The "eternal" formats of magic are a good example of what will happen to the overall cardpool or an "eternal" Hearthstone format , it will be dominated by the cards from "peak times" of power creep, effectively limiting the card pool  to some 100s of cards... (which is not a problem imho)

at first i was playing my own decks. but netdecks seem to be nice aswell :) you will have to use diffrent decks to climb the ladder because tactics change while gaining ranks.   a  m8 of mine had a ''useless'' deck at rank 11 he tried it again at rank 7 en he went to rank 4 with his ''useless'' deck :P