Perhaps it's game fatigue or whatever you want to call it but I think Blizzard has made a huge mistake with design philosophy of the current cards they've printed and continue to fail to learn the lessons from the cards they've printed in the past. The game has seriously lost its way/fun for me with decks becoming so polarised that you pretty much know before the game starts if you’re going to win or not (full disclosure – I mostly play a control Shammy deck and mid-range Quest priest though this deck loses to just about anything…).
First off we have the coin-flip card design. Did the opponent get Pocket Galaxy on turn 5 or summon 20-mana worth of murlocs on turn 5? Yes - you lose - no you win. Did they get a board of 8/8’s on turn 5 – sucks to be you! I know there’s an argument that a card game always has an element of chance but these cards are so stupidly powerful it makes for a very un-fun game experience. It's a terrible design philosophy dating back to Barnes and his high-roll mechanic. What makes it worse is that it’s often difficult to balance cards like these because they’re not (always) the problem on their own. They either do nothing useful and aren’t played in any decks or they ruin the game. Here’s my top tip to Blizzard – stop making them (or at the very least react quickly when things don’t go as you expect).
On the flipside we have control warrior. Warrior lacks many things as a class package but removal and card generation aren’t one of them. Strange then that Blizz would choose to print another AoE removal, a taunt card which generates a taunt and a new rush/reborn minion which can be tutored out of the deck and can reliably remove 2 minions. Combine that with all the tools Dr Boom provides and the inexplicable decision to make the Tomb Warden a mech and we have a deck which can reliably do nothing but remove everything…every…single…turn and generates enough late game threats to wear you down. I watched a deck showcase on Quest Paladin vs Control warrior. The Paladin won (as you might expect given the nature of this match up), but what was surprising was that turn after turn after turn multiple 8/8 and 7/7 minions were being cleared with the warrior only running out of steam after Da Undertaker hit the field and got cloned.
Maybe Hearthstone has been intentionally changed and people like they way it is compared to how it used to be. I don’t. I liked having to think about which minions to trade, whether it was better to heal the face of the warlock to deny him giants or push for lethal. Having to decide how much heal/taunt was required to stand a chance against face hunter. Hearthstone now feels very much like a single player game. You do your thing, your opponent does their thing and whoever’s “thing” happens fastest/bestest wins! I’m not saying there’s no skill involved, but the mechanics introduced have certainly reduced the impact of skill vs. luck. As a winner of the Masters Tour Seoul said when asked how he out-skilled his opponents – “I focussed on playing Luna on turn 5”. Says a lot really.
Yes there are many issues in the game like now. The game is boring. The developers are not learning. We are reaching a point in which they have to made very difficult changes in order to make the game playable/fun. They are delaying this.
There's a lot going on here but one thing I absolutely do agree on is how bad these powerful high roll cards are for the game - cards which almost single-handedly net you a win if drawn at the right time. There's not much fun to be had playing as or against a deck which hinges on drawing one card to do anything.
Keleseth was particularly bad for this, often fully deciding the game on turn 2 (or even 1 with the coin) and a shadowstep.
Couldn't agree more. MOST of the games feel like you're just doing your thing with fingers crossed that the opponent isn't playing a counter deck. Even if you win it's not like it used to be. You're not outsmarting your opponent. You KNOW that you've just had better draws or upper hand with counter deck. Having fun when winning in this game is like clapping for winning a race with ferrari against opel. Even a much better driver is gonna lose with opel in this race because the road is too simple for skill to matter.
Clearly there is something wrong in the game right now. Luna's on 5, Boom on 7, lens on 4 and you can concede. The swing turns are way to strong for some classes, there is no way of coming back.
That's how Hearthstone is meant to be: an easy game without any skill involved. Why? Because that way, anyone can win, including your pet goldfish. And what's the best way to make sure they win? By taking your opponent out of the equation.
That winner's statement about playing Luna's Pocket Galaxy on turn 5 shows that Hearthstone is working as intended.
No one is this incompetent. Don’t be naive and think this is all unintentional. Yes the game is turned to guttertrash. Are you lucky? No? Then you’re bad at this game. And vice versa. You ladder until your rng streak is on your side. Zephyrs should prove to you all how rigged this game is. That card is Blizzard being honest with you that yes the game is rigged. The game knows situations in and out completely. Why else would so many games be decided by perfect top decks over and over and over? Because the game knows. Oh you need said amount of damage? Here you go. Top deck, discover, discover the “perfect card” Blizzard knows damn well what they are doing.
Clearly there is something wrong in the game right now. Luna's on 5, Boom on 7, lens on 4 and you can concede. The swing turns are way to strong for some classes, there is no way of coming back.
This is NOT TRUE.
I've won enough games when opponent did what you point and lost enough when i had done the same.
There are a lot of counters for (at least most of) this swings.
I'm enjoying the game, it grows, it tries something new.
btw: Wizards' of the Coast Magic: The Gathering has huge swings too (eg Planeswalkers) for a VERY long time and their expirience says that it is a good successful decision.
Well HS got boring. The last expansion wasnt anything special, beside Zephyris (or whats its called). We had highlander decks before, we had quests before. The new mechanic is new indeed, but doesnt seem that special at all. No hero cards. Solo content will probably be the same as the last few (boring dungeon runs..). No new game modes.
After watching the master tournament this weekend I can somewhat agree with you. Lunas was a card every1 was talking about, especially the casters. If it was draw or muillganed for.. a 5 drop most of the time u have a huge advantage vs your opponent. If you have turn 7 boom, well the rush for mechs.. most of the time you have a huge advantage vs your opponent... and lastly, giants + conjurers... well you have a huge advan... you get the point.
The necessity to make strong classes stronger is almost laughable. Mage and warrior are definitely at the top of the game, but, warrior as really worked in the shadows.. mage right now is bonkers. 1 mana alex, to 1 mana archmage + 2x ray of frost for 4 mana and u get 2 fireballs and have 6 mana left over.. WOW
The nerf hammer is going to fall soon, I'll guarantee it. I can imagine the design team with there heads down watching that tournament lol. Oh yea and speaking of tournament, change the format back to multiple classes, instead of just 1 stupid class with 3 different decks. You wonder why there is no diversity in the game.. Blizzard is pushing it off via tournaments.
Almost everyone agrees - those cards need nerfs. But 2 cards (that are from multiple sets ago) are not a the damning indictment of the game's direction that you profess.
You have to consider that to keep the game interesting new cards are introduced and as they are, there’s going to be balance problems and some cards are going to become problematic. You’re playing a card game and RNG is an integral factor. Indeed it is what makes the game more fun as every game is different. Everyone’s going to have a bad run now and again and complain, it’s not a reason to have a go at the developers who frankly have a hard enough job to keep the game interesting and balanced throughout.
Game was always shit I am playing because I like gambling where I don't spend money + there is no other trading card game where you don't spend too much money.
I'm not "having a go" at the developers. I don't even belive the developers read these forums (but maybe they do). I'm merely saying that I dislike the direction the game is going. As I said in my post - maybe everyone else really likes the new direction. But it's not for me.
As for RNG (and exluding the RNG relating to drawing the right card) - a small amount is OK. Where I think it falls down is when you get the clownfiesta's like Yogg and Yogg's Puzzle box. Sure they're entertaining in a video but it sucks when you're playing out a game only to lose to a random combination of cards you couldn't possibly play around. Ultimatelty that is the point of this game is it not? To outplay your opponent? The best players know what is likely to be in their opponents deck and play around the liklihood it's in their hand. It's a tad difficult to play around any possible card in the game once you start to tot up all the possible ways of generating new cards.
P.s. to all the people who just write "salt, crybaby etc" in a post which contributes nothing else - just stop. It's fine if you have a difference of opinion but at least write down what your opinion is and why you believe it - that's what forums are all about. I'm surprised the mods don't get more involved and just delete your replies....
Game was always shit I am playing because I like gambling where I don't spend money + there is no other trading card game where you don't spend too much money.
Same here. Gambling is fun, especially when you don't spend too much money. That is Hearthstone at it's core and always will be. Take the game for what really is and you will enjoy it much more, OP. Yeah, there is some strategy here and there, but chance is a huge factor, the most important one. ;)
Ultimatelty that is the point of this game is it not? To outplay your opponent?
No, it's not. The point of the game is to have luck, and always has been. Stop deluding yourself and take the game for what really is: gambling mixed with a bit of strategy, that's all.
1)Mana Cheat: The biggest one. You either have an answer right away or you lose. Conjurer's Calling and Mountain giants are the big problem along with Luna's. Not to mention zoolock being able to have a 3/3 and 5/5 on the board turn 3.
2)Card Generation: Some classes are getting too much card generation. Shamans can spam murlocs and lackeys, hunters with a weakness of card draw and generation have some of the best card draw and generators in the game, mana cyclone refilling hand.
3)Get out of jail free cards: Zephrys reintroduced this problem. One person can be winning the entire game, but when Zephrys get played, the game turns completely. Frost Lich Jaina and Bloodreaver Guldan had this problem too. Also while we're at it, hero cards need to stop being made. There's no way to balance them.
Also, want to reiterate that Inner Fire needs to be HOF'd
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Perhaps it's game fatigue or whatever you want to call it but I think Blizzard has made a huge mistake with design philosophy of the current cards they've printed and continue to fail to learn the lessons from the cards they've printed in the past. The game has seriously lost its way/fun for me with decks becoming so polarised that you pretty much know before the game starts if you’re going to win or not (full disclosure – I mostly play a control Shammy deck and mid-range Quest priest though this deck loses to just about anything…).
First off we have the coin-flip card design. Did the opponent get Pocket Galaxy on turn 5 or summon 20-mana worth of murlocs on turn 5? Yes - you lose - no you win. Did they get a board of 8/8’s on turn 5 – sucks to be you! I know there’s an argument that a card game always has an element of chance but these cards are so stupidly powerful it makes for a very un-fun game experience. It's a terrible design philosophy dating back to Barnes and his high-roll mechanic. What makes it worse is that it’s often difficult to balance cards like these because they’re not (always) the problem on their own. They either do nothing useful and aren’t played in any decks or they ruin the game. Here’s my top tip to Blizzard – stop making them (or at the very least react quickly when things don’t go as you expect).
On the flipside we have control warrior. Warrior lacks many things as a class package but removal and card generation aren’t one of them. Strange then that Blizz would choose to print another AoE removal, a taunt card which generates a taunt and a new rush/reborn minion which can be tutored out of the deck and can reliably remove 2 minions. Combine that with all the tools Dr Boom provides and the inexplicable decision to make the Tomb Warden a mech and we have a deck which can reliably do nothing but remove everything…every…single…turn and generates enough late game threats to wear you down. I watched a deck showcase on Quest Paladin vs Control warrior. The Paladin won (as you might expect given the nature of this match up), but what was surprising was that turn after turn after turn multiple 8/8 and 7/7 minions were being cleared with the warrior only running out of steam after Da Undertaker hit the field and got cloned.
Maybe Hearthstone has been intentionally changed and people like they way it is compared to how it used to be. I don’t. I liked having to think about which minions to trade, whether it was better to heal the face of the warlock to deny him giants or push for lethal. Having to decide how much heal/taunt was required to stand a chance against face hunter. Hearthstone now feels very much like a single player game. You do your thing, your opponent does their thing and whoever’s “thing” happens fastest/bestest wins! I’m not saying there’s no skill involved, but the mechanics introduced have certainly reduced the impact of skill vs. luck. As a winner of the Masters Tour Seoul said when asked how he out-skilled his opponents – “I focussed on playing Luna on turn 5”. Says a lot really.
Yes there are many issues in the game like now. The game is boring. The developers are not learning. We are reaching a point in which they have to made very difficult changes in order to make the game playable/fun. They are delaying this.
There's a lot going on here but one thing I absolutely do agree on is how bad these powerful high roll cards are for the game - cards which almost single-handedly net you a win if drawn at the right time. There's not much fun to be had playing as or against a deck which hinges on drawing one card to do anything.
Keleseth was particularly bad for this, often fully deciding the game on turn 2 (or even 1 with the coin) and a shadowstep.
Couldn't agree more. MOST of the games feel like you're just doing your thing with fingers crossed that the opponent isn't playing a counter deck. Even if you win it's not like it used to be. You're not outsmarting your opponent. You KNOW that you've just had better draws or upper hand with counter deck. Having fun when winning in this game is like clapping for winning a race with ferrari against opel. Even a much better driver is gonna lose with opel in this race because the road is too simple for skill to matter.
Clearly there is something wrong in the game right now.
Luna's on 5, Boom on 7, lens on 4 and you can concede. The swing turns are way to strong for some classes, there is no way of coming back.
That's how Hearthstone is meant to be: an easy game without any skill involved. Why? Because that way, anyone can win, including your pet goldfish. And what's the best way to make sure they win? By taking your opponent out of the equation.
That winner's statement about playing Luna's Pocket Galaxy on turn 5 shows that Hearthstone is working as intended.
Hearthstone is garbage at the moment
Wow... another bs topic with crying babies.
U don't like, play another game...
Everyday I open hearthpwn, just crying topics
No one is this incompetent. Don’t be naive and think this is all unintentional. Yes the game is turned to guttertrash. Are you lucky? No? Then you’re bad at this game. And vice versa. You ladder until your rng streak is on your side. Zephyrs should prove to you all how rigged this game is. That card is Blizzard being honest with you that yes the game is rigged. The game knows situations in and out completely. Why else would so many games be decided by perfect top decks over and over and over? Because the game knows. Oh you need said amount of damage? Here you go. Top deck, discover, discover the “perfect card” Blizzard knows damn well what they are doing.
You don't like these topics, open another website with forums
This is NOT TRUE.
I've won enough games when opponent did what you point and lost enough when i had done the same.
There are a lot of counters for (at least most of) this swings.
I'm enjoying the game, it grows, it tries something new.
btw: Wizards' of the Coast Magic: The Gathering has huge swings too (eg Planeswalkers) for a VERY long time and their expirience says that it is a good successful decision.
Well HS got boring. The last expansion wasnt anything special, beside Zephyris (or whats its called). We had highlander decks before, we had quests before. The new mechanic is new indeed, but doesnt seem that special at all. No hero cards. Solo content will probably be the same as the last few (boring dungeon runs..). No new game modes.
After watching the master tournament this weekend I can somewhat agree with you. Lunas was a card every1 was talking about, especially the casters. If it was draw or muillganed for.. a 5 drop most of the time u have a huge advantage vs your opponent. If you have turn 7 boom, well the rush for mechs.. most of the time you have a huge advantage vs your opponent... and lastly, giants + conjurers... well you have a huge advan... you get the point.
The necessity to make strong classes stronger is almost laughable. Mage and warrior are definitely at the top of the game, but, warrior as really worked in the shadows.. mage right now is bonkers. 1 mana alex, to 1 mana archmage + 2x ray of frost for 4 mana and u get 2 fireballs and have 6 mana left over.. WOW
The nerf hammer is going to fall soon, I'll guarantee it. I can imagine the design team with there heads down watching that tournament lol. Oh yea and speaking of tournament, change the format back to multiple classes, instead of just 1 stupid class with 3 different decks. You wonder why there is no diversity in the game.. Blizzard is pushing it off via tournaments.
tl;dr this is another "nerf Luna/Boom" thread.
Almost everyone agrees - those cards need nerfs.
But 2 cards (that are from multiple sets ago) are not a the damning indictment of the game's direction that you profess.
You have to consider that to keep the game interesting new cards are introduced and as they are, there’s going to be balance problems and some cards are going to become problematic. You’re playing a card game and RNG is an integral factor. Indeed it is what makes the game more fun as every game is different. Everyone’s going to have a bad run now and again and complain, it’s not a reason to have a go at the developers who frankly have a hard enough job to keep the game interesting and balanced throughout.
Game was always shit I am playing because I like gambling where I don't spend money + there is no other trading card game where you don't spend too much money.
I'm not "having a go" at the developers. I don't even belive the developers read these forums (but maybe they do). I'm merely saying that I dislike the direction the game is going. As I said in my post - maybe everyone else really likes the new direction. But it's not for me.
As for RNG (and exluding the RNG relating to drawing the right card) - a small amount is OK. Where I think it falls down is when you get the clownfiesta's like Yogg and Yogg's Puzzle box. Sure they're entertaining in a video but it sucks when you're playing out a game only to lose to a random combination of cards you couldn't possibly play around. Ultimatelty that is the point of this game is it not? To outplay your opponent? The best players know what is likely to be in their opponents deck and play around the liklihood it's in their hand. It's a tad difficult to play around any possible card in the game once you start to tot up all the possible ways of generating new cards.
P.s. to all the people who just write "salt, crybaby etc" in a post which contributes nothing else - just stop. It's fine if you have a difference of opinion but at least write down what your opinion is and why you believe it - that's what forums are all about. I'm surprised the mods don't get more involved and just delete your replies....
Same here. Gambling is fun, especially when you don't spend too much money. That is Hearthstone at it's core and always will be. Take the game for what really is and you will enjoy it much more, OP. Yeah, there is some strategy here and there, but chance is a huge factor, the most important one. ;)
No, it's not. The point of the game is to have luck, and always has been. Stop deluding yourself and take the game for what really is: gambling mixed with a bit of strategy, that's all.
There's a couple problems with the game right now
1)Mana Cheat: The biggest one. You either have an answer right away or you lose. Conjurer's Calling and Mountain giants are the big problem along with Luna's. Not to mention zoolock being able to have a 3/3 and 5/5 on the board turn 3.
2)Card Generation: Some classes are getting too much card generation. Shamans can spam murlocs and lackeys, hunters with a weakness of card draw and generation have some of the best card draw and generators in the game, mana cyclone refilling hand.
3)Get out of jail free cards: Zephrys reintroduced this problem. One person can be winning the entire game, but when Zephrys get played, the game turns completely. Frost Lich Jaina and Bloodreaver Guldan had this problem too. Also while we're at it, hero cards need to stop being made. There's no way to balance them.
Also, want to reiterate that Inner Fire needs to be HOF'd