It's time to bring back Design Duels. For those who have not seen any of the previous threads, these Design Duels are always a 1v1 design competition between two anonymous players. The two competitors don't even know each other. For those who like to compete in one of these, simply send me a PM and I will set you up for a match. Lately I have been trying to do 2 duels at the same time, one New Comer Design Duel (for those who have not done a design duel before) and a Veteran Design Duel. Anyone entering duels for the first time is automatically a New Comer, but once you've completed your first New Comer match you're bumped into veteran status. If you are interested in joining a duel, just send me a PM and I will add you to the queue. Now for New Comer Design Duel #11:
We've done the Kabal and the Grimy Goons, now..
Prompt: Design a Jade Lotus spell (make sure it's for the Jade Lotus and covers all three factions)
I have to give this one to entry #2. Sure, you could say that Jade Staff is just a variation on Shifter Zerus, but at least it seems believably realistic. Kun's Forgotten Army, though, I just cannot comprehend what its creator was thinking. Like, at minimum, this puts on the board a 15/15, a 16/16/, a 17/17/, an 18/18/, a 19/19/, a 20/20, and a 21/21, and sure, you can argue that getting to ever even play it is not easy, but I'm still not in favor of that level of high-powered swinginess.
I have to give this one to entry #2. Sure, you could say that Jade Staff is just a variation on Shifter Zerus, but at least it seems believably realistic. Kun's Forgotten Army, though, I just cannot comprehend what its creator was thinking. Like, at minimum, this puts on the board a 15/15, a 16/16/, a 17/17/, an 18/18/, a 19/19/, a 20/20, and a 21/21, and sure, you can argue that getting to ever even play it is not easy, but I'm still not in favor of that level of high-powered swinginess.
You're not considering possible discounts: Innervate, Preparation, Counterfeit Coin, Emperor Thaurissan. The strategy would be to play this card as early as possible, at which point the cost of playing a second is also very cheap. Shaman's don't have any means of playing it early, but it would solve the aggro-shaman and mid-range shaman problem of running out of steam in the late game. Those lists aren't running enough jade cards currently to activate it, so it'd be a stretch.
The Jade Staff is neat. I love that, just like Shifter Zerus, it can transform into itself. But nothing feels Jade Lotus about this card. Each faction already has their Rare discover minion, if Jade Lotus gets this spell, then surely the Kabal and Grimy Goons should too. It'd actually make more sense for Reno Kabal decks, giving them the potential to duplicate important spells. But given the redundancy with the discover minions, I think adding 3 repeat cards would take up too much design space in the set.
I have to give this one to entry #2. Sure, you could say that Jade Staff is just a variation on Shifter Zerus, but at least it seems believably realistic. Kun's Forgotten Army, though, I just cannot comprehend what its creator was thinking. Like, at minimum, this puts on the board a 15/15, a 16/16/, a 17/17/, an 18/18/, a 19/19/, a 20/20, and a 21/21, and sure, you can argue that getting to ever even play it is not easy, but I'm still not in favor of that level of high-powered swinginess.
You're not considering possible discounts: Innervate, Preparation, Counterfeit Coin, Emperor Thaurissan. The strategy would be to play this card as early as possible, at which point the cost of playing a second is also very cheap. Shaman's don't have any means of playing it early, but it would solve the aggro-shaman and mid-range shaman problem of running out of steam in the late game. Those lists aren't running enough jade cards currently to activate it, so it'd be a stretch.
The Jade Staff is neat. I love that, just like Shifter Zerus, it can transform into itself. But nothing feels Jade Lotus about this card. Each faction already has their Rare discover minion, if Jade Lotus gets this spell, then surely the Kabal and Grimy Goons should too. It'd actually make more sense for Reno Kabal decks, giving them the potential to duplicate important spells. But given the redundancy with the discover minions, I think adding 3 repeat cards would take up too much design space in the set.
Only Preparation and Emperor Thaurissan actually do anything. Innervate, Counterfeit Coin, and even The Coin can only bring you to 10 mana, you just have to summon 14 golems to make this castable, and how you haven't won by that point I don't understand.
Innervate and Counterfeit Coin wouldn't work, as they can't give you more than 10 mana. You're right that Preparation and Emperor Thaurissan would help, but I'm not sure why play Thaurissan when one could just as well summon another Jade Golem. Either way, I don't want anybody to ever play this card, so telling me there are other ways to play it easier just makes it worse to me. Even if you manage to reduce its cost without playing any Jade Golems at all and then it "just" produces a 1/1, a 2/2, a 3/3, a 4/4, a 5/5, a 6/6, and a 7/7, I still think that's too much.
This is an odd contest. The Jade Lotus mechanic probably needs the least help. Its already very strong and has high synergy, and so making a card that boosts that seems absurd which leaves you with very little room, if any to actually make a card.
Kun's Forgotten Army - This card is just absurd. If someone you haven't won the game after summoning 14 Jade Golems, you can then Summon a full board of 7, and if you somehow lose after that you should probably just uninstall HS. The card is both pointless but completely overpowered if cast. I don't see why or how you could ever need it. I guess maybe the idea is that in the Mirror it functions off both players, so pretty much the first person to draw this wins the game, genius. I get the design and I don't totally mind the flavor, but this card makes not sense.
Jade Staff - Next up we have a card that doesn't really fit the theme. Its a really cool card, but even Shifter Zerus had some basic use. This doesn't do anything on its own. I like the basic concept and I think something more could have been done to tie it to the Faction and its themes without having it directly summon Jade Golems.
It was hard for me to make a choice, because I didn't like the design of one card even though it was thematically strong, and while I liked the other card, it didn't really seem to fit the design specs for the contest. That said, I still went with the card I liked more , and I felt had much better balance, and voted for Jade Staff.
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To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the women.
This is an odd contest. The Jade Lotus mechanic probably needs the least help. Its already very strong and has high synergy, and so making a card that boosts that seems absurd which leaves you with very little room, if any to actually make a card.
Jade Lotus is probably the strongest of the three factions (despite all the Reno-Kabal tier 1 decks) as far as their own gang, but I did this in particular because I've already had a match focused on the Grimy Goons and the Kabal, and I didn't want to leave the Lotus behind.
This is an odd contest. The Jade Lotus mechanic probably needs the least help. Its already very strong and has high synergy, and so making a card that boosts that seems absurd which leaves you with very little room, if any to actually make a card.
Jade Lotus is probably the strongest of the three factions (despite all the Reno-Kabal tier 1 decks) as far as their own gang, but I did this in particular because I've already had a match focused on the Grimy Goons and the Kabal, and I didn't want to leave the Lotus behind.
I wasn't blaming you or anything. I think the contest is a good one, but I think design space was limited and that left these guys at odd ends of a spectrum. One guy pushing the hyper synergy, the other guy going in a simple value path.
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To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the women.
This is an odd contest. The Jade Lotus mechanic probably needs the least help. Its already very strong and has high synergy, and so making a card that boosts that seems absurd which leaves you with very little room, if any to actually make a card.
Jade Lotus is probably the strongest of the three factions (despite all the Reno-Kabal tier 1 decks) as far as their own gang, but I did this in particular because I've already had a match focused on the Grimy Goons and the Kabal, and I didn't want to leave the Lotus behind.
I wasn't blaming you or anything. I think the contest is a good one, but I think design space was limited and that left these guys at odd ends of a spectrum. One guy pushing the hyper synergy, the other guy going in a simple value path.
That's a pretty fair analysis. It's not the first time this has happened, and likely won't be that last. Speaking on past designs though, using the more "limited" prompts has occasionally brought out some amazing cards though, especially when the designer can think outside of the box.
This is an odd contest. The Jade Lotus mechanic probably needs the least help. Its already very strong and has high synergy, and so making a card that boosts that seems absurd which leaves you with very little room, if any to actually make a card.
Jade Lotus is probably the strongest of the three factions (despite all the Reno-Kabal tier 1 decks) as far as their own gang, but I did this in particular because I've already had a match focused on the Grimy Goons and the Kabal, and I didn't want to leave the Lotus behind.
I wasn't blaming you or anything. I think the contest is a good one, but I think design space was limited and that left these guys at odd ends of a spectrum. One guy pushing the hyper synergy, the other guy going in a simple value path.
That's a pretty fair analysis. It's not the first time this has happened, and likely won't be that last. Speaking on past designs though, using the more "limited" prompts has occasionally brought out some amazing cards though, especially when the designer can think outside of the box.
Yeah, and nothing against either of these guys, not every idea is perfect, and not everyone's opinion about that idea is the same. I don't fault either of these guys for their direction, they just didn't inspire me much personally. That's probably fairly hard because I don't like over powered cards at all, and I don't like underpowered cards that much either, but even balance is very objective. I definitely like these small duels as opposed to the giant creation threads where sometimes great ideas get over shadowed by or lost in the shuffle of the popularity contest.
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To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the women.
I agree with the general sentiment here. Kun's Forgotten Army is wildly unplayable, and Jade Staff is thematically inappropriate (and also IMO just not that great for 2/3 of the Jade team). Honestly, I have to go with Kun's Forgotten Army, because I like the concept and think it could provide great endgame leverage if it were dialed down a bit. Something like 3 jade golems instead of 7, and 14 mana instead of 24. Jade Staff is playable how it is right now, but I vastly prefer Kun's in concept.
While I kinda like the vibe behind Kun's Forgotten Army, it just doesn't work well mechanically. People complain enough about the late game of Jade decks already, no need to give them more ammo when they don't even need it. Also, 7 Jade Golems? You might as well say 'Win the game next turn'.
I guess I gotta go with the Jade Staff, simply because it can actually work in the game. Although I'd personally have stuck it on a minion and called it the 'Lotus Shifter', or something like that, just so it makes more sense, but that wouldn't have been OK with the rules.
I'm sorry I for one don't like Kun's Forgotten Army in the slightest. First of all without cost reductions you got to have already played 14 dang Jade Golems. If you've had to play 14 of those, even past 11 in my opinion you should have won already, even Super Control has problems with dealing with minions that big.
Also, how the heck does Shaman use this?? The most Thrall can make is a 10/10 Jade Golem (without lucking out on Lotus Agents)... the only way they could play this is if Emperor T hits it 4 dang times. That's not fair in the slightest compared to Rogue's Prep and Druids Idols.
I know this is newcomer's duel but that was an instant turn off. At least 2nd one gives equal opportunity for each class and isn't completely bonkers....
I'd say entry #2, the first spell seem just like overkill, as by the time you can cast it for 10 mana your jade golems will already have reached 14/14, meaning the game should have been over a long time ago or is about to end in just 1 turn.
the second one seems really fun, it's like a spell version of Shifter Zerus, which could potentially be really fun!
After it was pointed out how unusable my card was I felt pretty stupid. I totally forgot that inervates and coins don't let you have more than 10 mana. A couple of posters hit the nail on the head: I decided whatever spell I made had to be some big expensive thing because I didn't want to give Aggro shaman or Miracle Rogue even better cards than they already have. Goes to show how important getting feedback is, had I shown this to anyone before the match, I probably would have caught my mistakes.
Also, who the hell voted for my card? lol. I didn't even vote for it after people pointed out how busted it was. Thanks I guess? I'm just glad I didn't win, that'd be embarrassing.
But congrats again to Alexbroxman! You got my vote. You made a card that would be fun AND works.
I voted for you, because I acknowledged the merits of the concept and the fact that these cards are blind creations (no public feedback, usually no revisions). That's just my approach to these, though, I know others vote solely on what is exactly present in the post.
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It's time to bring back Design Duels. For those who have not seen any of the previous threads, these Design Duels are always a 1v1 design competition between two anonymous players. The two competitors don't even know each other. For those who like to compete in one of these, simply send me a PM and I will set you up for a match. Lately I have been trying to do 2 duels at the same time, one New Comer Design Duel (for those who have not done a design duel before) and a Veteran Design Duel. Anyone entering duels for the first time is automatically a New Comer, but once you've completed your first New Comer match you're bumped into veteran status. If you are interested in joining a duel, just send me a PM and I will add you to the queue. Now for New Comer Design Duel #11:
We've done the Kabal and the Grimy Goons, now..
Prompt: Design a Jade Lotus spell (make sure it's for the Jade Lotus and covers all three factions)
Entry #1: ZardozSpeaks Entry #2: alexbroxman (winner)
As always, vote above and comment below!
Congratulations to our winner, alexbroxman!
RedneckBudha
I have to give this one to entry #2. Sure, you could say that Jade Staff is just a variation on Shifter Zerus, but at least it seems believably realistic. Kun's Forgotten Army, though, I just cannot comprehend what its creator was thinking. Like, at minimum, this puts on the board a 15/15, a 16/16/, a 17/17/, an 18/18/, a 19/19/, a 20/20, and a 21/21, and sure, you can argue that getting to ever even play it is not easy, but I'm still not in favor of that level of high-powered swinginess.
The Jade Staff is neat. I love that, just like Shifter Zerus, it can transform into itself. But nothing feels Jade Lotus about this card. Each faction already has their Rare discover minion, if Jade Lotus gets this spell, then surely the Kabal and Grimy Goons should too. It'd actually make more sense for Reno Kabal decks, giving them the potential to duplicate important spells. But given the redundancy with the discover minions, I think adding 3 repeat cards would take up too much design space in the set.
Jade staff. Shifter zerus of spells?! @@
To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the women.
This is an odd contest. The Jade Lotus mechanic probably needs the least help. Its already very strong and has high synergy, and so making a card that boosts that seems absurd which leaves you with very little room, if any to actually make a card.
Kun's Forgotten Army - This card is just absurd. If someone you haven't won the game after summoning 14 Jade Golems, you can then Summon a full board of 7, and if you somehow lose after that you should probably just uninstall HS. The card is both pointless but completely overpowered if cast. I don't see why or how you could ever need it. I guess maybe the idea is that in the Mirror it functions off both players, so pretty much the first person to draw this wins the game, genius. I get the design and I don't totally mind the flavor, but this card makes not sense.
Jade Staff - Next up we have a card that doesn't really fit the theme. Its a really cool card, but even Shifter Zerus had some basic use. This doesn't do anything on its own. I like the basic concept and I think something more could have been done to tie it to the Faction and its themes without having it directly summon Jade Golems.
It was hard for me to make a choice, because I didn't like the design of one card even though it was thematically strong, and while I liked the other card, it didn't really seem to fit the design specs for the contest. That said, I still went with the card I liked more , and I felt had much better balance, and voted for Jade Staff.
To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the women.
RedneckBudha
To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the women.
RedneckBudha
To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of the women.
Jade Staff for Me - I don't like the Anyfin Can Happen type cards and Jade Golems already have an end game
I agree with the general sentiment here. Kun's Forgotten Army is wildly unplayable, and Jade Staff is thematically inappropriate (and also IMO just not that great for 2/3 of the Jade team). Honestly, I have to go with Kun's Forgotten Army, because I like the concept and think it could provide great endgame leverage if it were dialed down a bit. Something like 3 jade golems instead of 7, and 14 mana instead of 24. Jade Staff is playable how it is right now, but I vastly prefer Kun's in concept.
While I kinda like the vibe behind Kun's Forgotten Army, it just doesn't work well mechanically. People complain enough about the late game of Jade decks already, no need to give them more ammo when they don't even need it. Also, 7 Jade Golems? You might as well say 'Win the game next turn'.
I guess I gotta go with the Jade Staff, simply because it can actually work in the game. Although I'd personally have stuck it on a minion and called it the 'Lotus Shifter', or something like that, just so it makes more sense, but that wouldn't have been OK with the rules.
So, basically, what people have said already.
Why Rogue is my favourite class:
My submission for this week's card design competition.
I'm sorry I for one don't like Kun's Forgotten Army in the slightest. First of all without cost reductions you got to have already played 14 dang Jade Golems. If you've had to play 14 of those, even past 11 in my opinion you should have won already, even Super Control has problems with dealing with minions that big.
Also, how the heck does Shaman use this?? The most Thrall can make is a 10/10 Jade Golem (without lucking out on Lotus Agents)... the only way they could play this is if Emperor T hits it 4 dang times. That's not fair in the slightest compared to Rogue's Prep and Druids Idols.
I know this is newcomer's duel but that was an instant turn off. At least 2nd one gives equal opportunity for each class and isn't completely bonkers....
I'd say entry #2, the first spell seem just like overkill, as by the time you can cast it for 10 mana your jade golems will already have reached 14/14, meaning the game should have been over a long time ago or is about to end in just 1 turn.
the second one seems really fun, it's like a spell version of Shifter Zerus, which could potentially be really fun!
Why u hav to be mad? is only card gaem.
Congratulations to our winner, alexbroxman!
RedneckBudha
Congratulations to Alexbroxman!
After it was pointed out how unusable my card was I felt pretty stupid. I totally forgot that inervates and coins don't let you have more than 10 mana. A couple of posters hit the nail on the head: I decided whatever spell I made had to be some big expensive thing because I didn't want to give Aggro shaman or Miracle Rogue even better cards than they already have. Goes to show how important getting feedback is, had I shown this to anyone before the match, I probably would have caught my mistakes.
Also, who the hell voted for my card? lol. I didn't even vote for it after people pointed out how busted it was. Thanks I guess? I'm just glad I didn't win, that'd be embarrassing.
But congrats again to Alexbroxman! You got my vote. You made a card that would be fun AND works.
I voted for you, because I acknowledged the merits of the concept and the fact that these cards are blind creations (no public feedback, usually no revisions). That's just my approach to these, though, I know others vote solely on what is exactly present in the post.