With the utmost respect to my main (gender as applicable) Lyra, I think you're using a wrecking ball to remove a splinter.
The criticism in the midst of all this that truly needs to be addressed is the absolutely insulting nature of the "replacement" cards. Every time I open a classic pack and get that 1 mana "random mage spell" card, I shake my head in wonder. The majority of the classic set is not an issue, but my God, they certainly could have come up with some legitimate cards with some viability to add to the classic set.
Full disclosure, I have basically every gold classic Legendary . . . so I vote no.
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Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
F that, I just started playing and spent the last few months grinding that pack. If blizzard ever rotates Classic they better give FULL refunds because a key reason people buy that pack was because they were told it never rotates...
There are several classic cards that are being played. Many have seen play for a long time and will become viable again in the right meta. I can only see a lot frustration. Sylvanas and Ragnaros were HoF'd because they were played in every single deck that had a mana curve beyond 5 mana. That was not the point of the Classic Set. Blizzard f'd up on Mountain Giant, but they changed him back showing that they learnt.
The Classic set also provides many tech options that phase into the meta in and out from time to time. E. g. MCT wasn't played for about 2 years until the card returned. IMO the Classic set currently is in the exact spot it should be. Not a no brainer, but actually a set that makes a great base for decks while not being overpowered.
Blizzard design team only thinks with their pocket!
Ever green good cards are huge problem because they don't encourage people to buy new packs.
The solution: Rotate or destroy good classic cards until you can only make good decks with new cards you have to buy.
Strong neutral cards also serve as a viable substitute for many individual cards for every class that overall bring more money so they gotta go and team 5 needs to be careful not to print such or else they get nerfed badly.
First: that would be one of the worst business-wise decision you could make because HS would probably lose around 50% of it's players because of that alone.
Second: New player experience would be HORRENDOUS. People would barely (if even) be able to make a deck.
I love when people seem so absolutely certain that Blizzard makes these decisions based solely on short term financial game.
All I can say is, play Magic for a couple of years.
Blizzard was acting against short term interest when it first cemented the idea of the evergreen set.
Please note, I'm not suggesting the company designed solely to make money is not motivated by money. I'm simply pointing out that they are not this perceived pump and dump scheme. An enduring game is the best money maker.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
I love when people seem so absolutely certain that Blizzard makes these decisions based solely on short term financial game.
All I can say is, play Magic for a couple of years.
Blizzard was acting against short term interest when it first cemented the idea of the evergreen set.
Please note, I'm not suggesting the company designed solely to make money is not motivated by money. I'm simply pointing out that they are not this perceived pump and dump scheme. An enduring game is the best money maker.
Dunno man, srsly, dunno...
If I watch the scheme of the last expansions I only see epic and legend-cards supporting existing archetypes, now it's OTK-paladin
I remember the day Ice Block was HoFed and the fairy tale of interactive gameplay was told... So they removed it from mage and invented it for paladin together with fresh legendaries
I would not underestimate activisions role in this game or company, Blizzcon has shown some disgusting moves
The big problem with removing the entire classic set is the issue of Secrets.
Secrets, by their very nature, can only serve a function when there are a whole lot of them. We've only ever seen at most three secrets for one class in a given expansion, and that was because Rogue didn't have any in Kobolds and Catacombs. More often than not, a class can only afford to get one secret each expansion because they are, by their very nature, low tempo cards that do not give the immediate and satisfying impact you expect when you cast a spell.
The classic set has 4 secrets for paladin, and 5 each for mage and hunter.
The very nature of Secrets means that they cannot function unless there are multiple available to potentially mislead your opponent. Even if you think that only Counterspell will be played out of the classic set mage secrets, that is an assumption. There is nothing currently stopping any player from putting Ice Barrier in his deck and potentially taking advantage of it to make a player waste their next turn on a weak minion expecting Mirror Entity or Explosive Runes. That's part of what makes Secrets interesting, and it cannot function if we don't have at least 4 secrets in each class at all times. Removing the entire classic set would essentially remove Secrets from the game.
Right, but the entire existence of an evergreen set wasn't required at the beginning of the game. Magic has something that's supposed to be the "base set", but it's still released every two years and they heavily change the card line up each time.
I understand the point of how rotating epics and legendaries hurts, but the whole damn set could have been rotating from the start. That was the precedent set by Magic.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
It's funny how all these people who don't do it for a living are experts at discussing how to fix all the (Hearthstone) world's problems. Someone at Blizzard, T5 or otherwise, knows better the ramifications of all their decisions, better than any of you/us ever will. The game is making a killing (globally). They'll piss people off, some will leave, others will start playing. I just don't get how people who know damn well you can't please everyone insist they should be the ones pleased.
With the utmost respect to my main (gender as applicable) Lyra, I think you're using a wrecking ball to remove a splinter.
The criticism in the midst of all this that truly needs to be addressed is the absolutely insulting nature of the "replacement" cards. Every time I open a classic pack and get that 1 mana "random mage spell" card, I shake my head in wonder. The majority of the classic set is not an issue, but my God, they certainly could have come up with some legitimate cards with some viability to add to the classic set.
Full disclosure, I have basically every gold classic Legendary . . . so I vote no.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
F that, I just started playing and spent the last few months grinding that pack. If blizzard ever rotates Classic they better give FULL refunds because a key reason people buy that pack was because they were told it never rotates...
Giving everyone A new basic set at the start of a new year would be nice, the evergreen set should be moved to wild.
There are several classic cards that are being played. Many have seen play for a long time and will become viable again in the right meta. I can only see a lot frustration. Sylvanas and Ragnaros were HoF'd because they were played in every single deck that had a mana curve beyond 5 mana. That was not the point of the Classic Set. Blizzard f'd up on Mountain Giant, but they changed him back showing that they learnt.
The Classic set also provides many tech options that phase into the meta in and out from time to time. E. g. MCT wasn't played for about 2 years until the card returned. IMO the Classic set currently is in the exact spot it should be. Not a no brainer, but actually a set that makes a great base for decks while not being overpowered.
Whatever we say or want is irrelevant.
Blizzard design team only thinks with their pocket!
Ever green good cards are huge problem because they don't encourage people to buy new packs.
The solution: Rotate or destroy good classic cards until you can only make good decks with new cards you have to buy.
Strong neutral cards also serve as a viable substitute for many individual cards for every class that overall bring more money so they gotta go and team 5 needs to be careful not to print such or else they get nerfed badly.
First: that would be one of the worst business-wise decision you could make because HS would probably lose around 50% of it's players because of that alone.
Second: New player experience would be HORRENDOUS. People would barely (if even) be able to make a deck.
Third: You're fired.
I love when people seem so absolutely certain that Blizzard makes these decisions based solely on short term financial game.
All I can say is, play Magic for a couple of years.
Blizzard was acting against short term interest when it first cemented the idea of the evergreen set.
Please note, I'm not suggesting the company designed solely to make money is not motivated by money. I'm simply pointing out that they are not this perceived pump and dump scheme. An enduring game is the best money maker.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
Dunno man, srsly, dunno...
If I watch the scheme of the last expansions I only see epic and legend-cards supporting existing archetypes, now it's OTK-paladin
I remember the day Ice Block was HoFed and the fairy tale of interactive gameplay was told... So they removed it from mage and invented it for paladin together with fresh legendaries
I would not underestimate activisions role in this game or company, Blizzcon has shown some disgusting moves
The big problem with removing the entire classic set is the issue of Secrets.
Secrets, by their very nature, can only serve a function when there are a whole lot of them. We've only ever seen at most three secrets for one class in a given expansion, and that was because Rogue didn't have any in Kobolds and Catacombs. More often than not, a class can only afford to get one secret each expansion because they are, by their very nature, low tempo cards that do not give the immediate and satisfying impact you expect when you cast a spell.
The classic set has 4 secrets for paladin, and 5 each for mage and hunter.
Paladin has Eye for an Eye, Repentance, Redemption, and Noble Sacrifice.
Mage has Mirror Entity, Spellbender, Ice Barrier, Counterspell, and Vaporize.
Hunter has Snake Trap, Explosive Trap, Freezing Trap, Misdirection and Snipe.
The very nature of Secrets means that they cannot function unless there are multiple available to potentially mislead your opponent. Even if you think that only Counterspell will be played out of the classic set mage secrets, that is an assumption. There is nothing currently stopping any player from putting Ice Barrier in his deck and potentially taking advantage of it to make a player waste their next turn on a weak minion expecting Mirror Entity or Explosive Runes. That's part of what makes Secrets interesting, and it cannot function if we don't have at least 4 secrets in each class at all times. Removing the entire classic set would essentially remove Secrets from the game.
Right, but the entire existence of an evergreen set wasn't required at the beginning of the game. Magic has something that's supposed to be the "base set", but it's still released every two years and they heavily change the card line up each time.
I understand the point of how rotating epics and legendaries hurts, but the whole damn set could have been rotating from the start. That was the precedent set by Magic.
Helpful Clarification on Forbidden Topics for Hearthstone Forums:
Enjoying Americans winning in the Olympics is forbidden because it is political. A 14 plus page discussion of state-sponsored lawsuits against a multi-national corporation based on harassment, discrimination, and wrongful death allegations is apparently not political enough to raise an issue.
It's funny how all these people who don't do it for a living are experts at discussing how to fix all the (Hearthstone) world's problems. Someone at Blizzard, T5 or otherwise, knows better the ramifications of all their decisions, better than any of you/us ever will. The game is making a killing (globally). They'll piss people off, some will leave, others will start playing. I just don't get how people who know damn well you can't please everyone insist they should be the ones pleased.
You realize removing the classic set means the end of Force of Nature -> savage roar. How on Earth do you expect druid to ever win a game?
Thank you!, Well said