If you wanted to nerf FM alex wouldn't be the correct choice, as it would affect other decks too.
Anyway, I love the deck as a concept and have nothing against it existing(and regarding the age old point about it being uninteractive, I respectfully disagree), but I also believe it will be too powerful in standard.
But it does up to 15 damage and an 8/8 body for 9 mana, and has healing flexibility. It should be nerfed.
It's a pyroblast and a half with a body attached.
9+ mana cards are meant to be used to win games with, otherwise people just won't play them no matter how much potential "value" they have(see:foe reaper 9000).
Anyway, this is beside the point, my point was that alex is a card that sees play in other decks too and nerfing it would harm more than FM.
And what I'm saying is those decks should also be affected because Alexstrasza is a undervalued card for it's power level.
I think the reason Freeze mage doesn't get nerfed is because it usually dies to braindead aggro decks.
Freeze mage is heavily favored against every single aggro deck that exists in the game currently. Well except for tempo mage and face shaman against whom it is only favored.
If you wanted to nerf FM alex wouldn't be the correct choice, as it would affect other decks too.
Anyway, I love the deck as a concept and have nothing against it existing(and regarding the age old point about it being uninteractive, I respectfully disagree), but I also believe it will be too powerful in standard.
But it does up to 15 damage and an 8/8 body for 9 mana, and has healing flexibility. It should be nerfed.
It's a pyroblast and a half with a body attached.
9+ mana cards are meant to be used to win games with, otherwise people just won't play them no matter how much potential "value" they have(see:foe reaper 9000).
Anyway, this is beside the point, my point was that alex is a card that sees play in other decks too and nerfing it would harm more than FM.
And what I'm saying is those decks should also be affected because Alexstrasza is a undervalued card for it's power level.
exactly, I 100% agree with OP. Freeze mage is by far the stupidest thing in the game and has been for a very long time. I've gone against hundreds of freeze mages, and I know exactly what theyre going to do 5 turns in advanced, make 0 missplays, plan ahead, then die to a 23 damage combo from an empty board. There's literally nothing that you can do when they get a good hand. You need to be playing a cheesy class like warrior that auto wins because they build armor that doesn't get removed from alex, or you have to play a deck that can kill them and apply pressure before turn 9 that isn't weak to a board clear. Vs grimm patron, you can make intelligent plays to play around their stuff. They needed a 7 card combo to kill you with emperor from full hp, and it didn't work if you had a taunt up 90% of the time. Vs freeze mage, taunts/secrets are worthless. Theres literally nothing you can do to win unless you're running a very specific type of deck. I've freaking waited all game with healbot in my hand and played it, and killed alex the turn he alex's me, then all he needs to do is pyroblast me, then kill me with double fireball the turn after. You can't actually kill them because of ice block and the 16 armor they get for free. Not to mention that they whipe your board every turn. And they don't even need the pyro because ive lost multiple games to thalnos, fireball, frostbolt, frostbolt, ice lance ice lance. 25 damage, no board, immune to taunt.
There is no reason to nerf Alex. You only get full value with the card if your opponent is at full health. If your oponent has 15 or less health then the Battlecry effect is useless. Also if you are playing aganist freeze Mage you should know that they are going to play that card at some point in the match and knows how to handle it.
I find it amusing that people don't like their deck to lose to FM no matter what they do, yet they didn't even bat an eye when aggro decks got the dick by a card existing in the game that causes the game to be unwinnable if their opponent draw it "no matter what they do"(reno). It's almost as if the community is heavily biased against aggro :(
If you wanted to nerf FM alex wouldn't be the correct choice, as it would affect other decks too.
Anyway, I love the deck as a concept and have nothing against it existing(and regarding the age old point about it being uninteractive, I respectfully disagree), but I also believe it will be too powerful in standard.
I have never seen alex run in any other deck since GvG and it was in old control warrior, which was played in the same uninteractive way with a gromm combo to kill them the turn after. They could actually buff alexstraza too. make it set health to 20, would make it viable in other decks, but it would nerf freeze mage at the same time. win win. And even if FM wasn't OP, it still needs to go because it's been the exact same deck since before the game was realeased and it's impeding change and makes tournaments really boring to watch, because literally every single tournament match has freeze mage in at least 1 of the players' lineups.
If you wanted to nerf FM alex wouldn't be the correct choice, as it would affect other decks too.
Anyway, I love the deck as a concept and have nothing against it existing(and regarding the age old point about it being uninteractive, I respectfully disagree), but I also believe it will be too powerful in standard.
But it does up to 15 damage and an 8/8 body for 9 mana, and has healing flexibility. It should be nerfed.
It's a pyroblast and a half with a body attached.
9+ mana cards are meant to be used to win games with, otherwise people just won't play them no matter how much potential "value" they have(see:foe reaper 9000).
Anyway, this is beside the point, my point was that alex is a card that sees play in other decks too and nerfing it would harm more than FM.
And what I'm saying is those decks should also be affected because Alexstrasza is a undervalued card for it's power level.
If you wanted to nerf FM alex wouldn't be the correct choice, as it would affect other decks too.
Anyway, I love the deck as a concept and have nothing against it existing(and regarding the age old point about it being uninteractive, I respectfully disagree), but I also believe it will be too powerful in standard.
But it does up to 15 damage and an 8/8 body for 9 mana, and has healing flexibility. It should be nerfed.
It's a pyroblast and a half with a body attached.
9+ mana cards are meant to be used to win games with, otherwise people just won't play them no matter how much potential "value" they have(see:foe reaper 9000).
Anyway, this is beside the point, my point was that alex is a card that sees play in other decks too and nerfing it would harm more than FM.
And what I'm saying is those decks should also be affected because Alexstrasza is a undervalued card for it's power level.
If you wanted to nerf FM alex wouldn't be the correct choice, as it would affect other decks too.
Anyway, I love the deck as a concept and have nothing against it existing(and regarding the age old point about it being uninteractive, I respectfully disagree), but I also believe it will be too powerful in standard.
I have never seen alex run in any other deck since GvG and it was in old control warrior, which was played in the same uninteractive way with a gromm combo to kill them the turn after. They could actually buff alexstraza too. make it set health to 20, would make it viable in other decks, but it would nerf freeze mage at the same time. win win. And even if FM wasn't OP, it still needs to go because it's been the exact same deck since before the game was realeased and it's impeding change and makes tournaments really boring to watch, because literally every single tournament match has freeze mage in at least 1 of the players' lineups.
This is heavily opinion based, I can tell you that a lot of people(myself included) love playing the deck and watching it being played in tournaments. I personally dislike a lot of decks in the game(dragon priest for example is a deck I find retarded and based on playing things on curve until you win), but that doesn't mean I moan about them or ask them to delete them.
But the thing is, It's all about balance. Obviously if the deck is to become too good I will be all for nerfing it(not into oblivion though) whether it is a deck I like or not.
I find it amusing that people don't like their deck to lose to FM no matter what they do, yet they didn't even bat an eye when aggro decks got the dick by a card existing in the game that causes the game to be unwinnable if their opponent draw it "no matter what they do"(reno). It's almost as if the community is heavily biased against aggro :(
Reno requires building the entire deck around it in order to heal or at the very least have drawn 1 of all the duplicates in the deck while Alex can be added to any deck for an additional 10-15 damage. on top of that freeze mage uses it to both heal and set up unstoppable lethals with ice block.
On the other hand Freeze mage loses mad scientist which is HUGE, and nerfing Alex wouldn't stop freeze mage. There are plenty of cards there for them to use instead like Tony, torch, pyroblast and even Reno . If Freeze mage gets out of hand Eater will become more powerful and if that wont do it blizzard will look at what to nerf ala undertaker when it went from OP to 2-of in every deck.
Alex can be added to any deck for an additional 10-15 damage
Yeah, kind of stopped reading at this line.
And my point stands that if you are against a deck existing in the game that when it draws well it just can't lose to a number of other decks, you should be unbiased about it.
I can't know for sure, but on Dr Boom, there was a valid point of why to not nerf legendaries.
One devs, unsure about who, but maybe Ben Brode said about Dr. Boom, that they want to avoid legendary (and overall, ) nerfs at all cost, because players not only chosen to make it from dust, what is reversible, but made a decision to play with that and that deck, maybe crafted 3-5-10 cards to make the deck for that card. On Dr. Boom, because it was so broken, everyone chosen to craft it first, made players on crafting BGH, because Dr. Boom was so broken and a counter card seemed to be necessary. If Dr. Boom gets nerfed, those who crafted BGH to counter it would have 400 dust thrown out of the window.
And that was THE Dr unbalanced, what was not even a deck defining thing, you've just used anywhere.
But the rotation solved that problem and I think the main reason why it was announced that early, because you could plan into not buying a ton of GvG before the new set, so you wouldn't feel that bad, when it rotates out.
With the same reasoning, Alexstraza's existence defined Controll warrior and Freeze mage for a while and if you got an Alex from a pack, it easily let you to make a Freeze mage, because, now you can afford it more easily. But if it gets nerfed and Freeze mage sets down to Tier 3, you'd feel really bad by crafting up Bloodmage Thalnos, Doomsayer and stuff only played in Freeze mage (Rogue is dead).
And Alexstraza is not broken, just really strong. 9 mana means that you get a turn to defend yourself, what was not possible with the rogue and the Druid combo example, because if they had it, you are just dead. That's why they got nerfed. And it's not 15 damage, the main point of the card is to set a player to 15, from anywhere. That's the difference between the Pyroblast, what can instantly kill you on 8 HP and Alex, which cannot.
^^Maybe not any deck but Alex has been used in Handlock, Control warrior, Freeze mage, some (bad) Rogue decks and fits in pretty well in most if not any dragon or control deck. Either way neither card needs a nerf and it wouldn't do the job either way. The main reason reno was added is because Aggro was out of control around LoE.
In short, legendaries were intended to be conception defining, so nerfing them kills a conception as well, making players, who dusted other cards to make the specific deck feel bad.
On bonus, Alex was nerfed once to not remove armor, because there was a combo with Gorehowl +Alex + 0 mana Charge.
I get all arguments pro nerfing alex and they make sense. But in my opinion, what will push freeze mage over the top in standard is Ice Block. The card is just stupid, it negates a loss, and if used cleverly literally makes the difference between utter defeat and absolute win. Something I don't see people realizing as much is that we're losing Loatheb, a card commonly used to lock freeze mage players out of games. Also, while we're all losing healbot and that would theoretically be a downside for both sides, Cult Apothecary fits perfectly into freeze mage, while doing nothing against freeze mage.
Not only that, but now Mages in general are the only ones allowed to freely abuse Molten Giant. No other class can reliably go down to 5~1 hp and be ~85% safe, only vulnerable to Eater of Secrets.
Not to mention the synergy Ice block has with Reno Jackson.
The combination of those factors make me feel Ice block had to go.
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exactly, I 100% agree with OP. Freeze mage is by far the stupidest thing in the game and has been for a very long time. I've gone against hundreds of freeze mages, and I know exactly what theyre going to do 5 turns in advanced, make 0 missplays, plan ahead, then die to a 23 damage combo from an empty board. There's literally nothing that you can do when they get a good hand. You need to be playing a cheesy class like warrior that auto wins because they build armor that doesn't get removed from alex, or you have to play a deck that can kill them and apply pressure before turn 9 that isn't weak to a board clear. Vs grimm patron, you can make intelligent plays to play around their stuff. They needed a 7 card combo to kill you with emperor from full hp, and it didn't work if you had a taunt up 90% of the time. Vs freeze mage, taunts/secrets are worthless. Theres literally nothing you can do to win unless you're running a very specific type of deck. I've freaking waited all game with healbot in my hand and played it, and killed alex the turn he alex's me, then all he needs to do is pyroblast me, then kill me with double fireball the turn after. You can't actually kill them because of ice block and the 16 armor they get for free. Not to mention that they whipe your board every turn. And they don't even need the pyro because ive lost multiple games to thalnos, fireball, frostbolt, frostbolt, ice lance ice lance. 25 damage, no board, immune to taunt.
There is no reason to nerf Alex. You only get full value with the card if your opponent is at full health. If your oponent has 15 or less health then the Battlecry effect is useless. Also if you are playing aganist freeze Mage you should know that they are going to play that card at some point in the match and knows how to handle it.
Pyroblast can also be used as a topdeck to end the game. Alex requires a followup turn to end the game, as well as other cards.
I find it amusing that people don't like their deck to lose to FM no matter what they do, yet they didn't even bat an eye when aggro decks got the dick by a card existing in the game that causes the game to be unwinnable if their opponent draw it "no matter what they do"(reno). It's almost as if the community is heavily biased against aggro :(
Yes. Out of all the nerf related threads that have been throughout the years on this site.
Op finally made sense today.
I was predicting alex to be at the top of the nerf list.
Especially with ben brode calling the deck cheesy a while back.
Seems like the on paper, the meta should put FM at the top.
Although if you think about it, it is intrinsically is a well designed deck. Either there should be more decks like it or there should be none at all.
The fact that blizzard feels that this doesn't need addressing, might it be an indicator that control warrior will turn out really strong?
That they cost more than their value?
All these "OMG THIS IS OP" discussions are pathetic.
It hardly ever does the full 15, and I've seen it used to heal UP TO 15 more then I've seen it used to lower the opponents health.
I can't know for sure, but on Dr Boom, there was a valid point of why to not nerf legendaries.
One devs, unsure about who, but maybe Ben Brode said about Dr. Boom, that they want to avoid legendary (and overall, ) nerfs at all cost, because players not only chosen to make it from dust, what is reversible, but made a decision to play with that and that deck, maybe crafted 3-5-10 cards to make the deck for that card. On Dr. Boom, because it was so broken, everyone chosen to craft it first, made players on crafting BGH, because Dr. Boom was so broken and a counter card seemed to be necessary. If Dr. Boom gets nerfed, those who crafted BGH to counter it would have 400 dust thrown out of the window.
And that was THE Dr unbalanced, what was not even a deck defining thing, you've just used anywhere.
But the rotation solved that problem and I think the main reason why it was announced that early, because you could plan into not buying a ton of GvG before the new set, so you wouldn't feel that bad, when it rotates out.
With the same reasoning, Alexstraza's existence defined Controll warrior and Freeze mage for a while and if you got an Alex from a pack, it easily let you to make a Freeze mage, because, now you can afford it more easily. But if it gets nerfed and Freeze mage sets down to Tier 3, you'd feel really bad by crafting up Bloodmage Thalnos, Doomsayer and stuff only played in Freeze mage (Rogue is dead).
And Alexstraza is not broken, just really strong. 9 mana means that you get a turn to defend yourself, what was not possible with the rogue and the Druid combo example, because if they had it, you are just dead. That's why they got nerfed. And it's not 15 damage, the main point of the card is to set a player to 15, from anywhere. That's the difference between the Pyroblast, what can instantly kill you on 8 HP and Alex, which cannot.
We can live without pizza, but then, what for?
^^Maybe not any deck but Alex has been used in Handlock, Control warrior, Freeze mage, some (bad) Rogue decks and fits in pretty well in most if not any dragon or control deck. Either way neither card needs a nerf and it wouldn't do the job either way. The main reason reno was added is because Aggro was out of control around LoE.
In short, legendaries were intended to be conception defining, so nerfing them kills a conception as well, making players, who dusted other cards to make the specific deck feel bad.
On bonus, Alex was nerfed once to not remove armor, because there was a combo with Gorehowl +Alex + 0 mana Charge.
We can live without pizza, but then, what for?
I would have liked to see Alex given the power to heal only. Restore 10 (or even 12 or 14) health - to any one character, even a minion.
Forgive me, friend. I have failed.
I get all arguments pro nerfing alex and they make sense. But in my opinion, what will push freeze mage over the top in standard is Ice Block. The card is just stupid, it negates a loss, and if used cleverly literally makes the difference between utter defeat and absolute win. Something I don't see people realizing as much is that we're losing Loatheb, a card commonly used to lock freeze mage players out of games. Also, while we're all losing healbot and that would theoretically be a downside for both sides, Cult Apothecary fits perfectly into freeze mage, while doing nothing against freeze mage.
Not only that, but now Mages in general are the only ones allowed to freely abuse Molten Giant. No other class can reliably go down to 5~1 hp and be ~85% safe, only vulnerable to Eater of Secrets.
Not to mention the synergy Ice block has with Reno Jackson.
The combination of those factors make me feel Ice block had to go.