q rogue is actually a deck which requires a lot of skill and experience to pilot it correctly.
you can do a ton of missplays in every turn, starting with the mulligan and I guess OP will confirm it after playing it 40 hours a months
(I think I even played it more hours). watching players at lower ranks playing this deck is a horrible nightmare. not only that most of the people are using outdated lists, they also simply don't know how to play it correct.
therefore I give a shit about VS data because I guess that people who they take the data from, can't play this deck as they should.
in my example, I am at 68% winrate this season - only at legend ranks. surely the meta is different at each rank and OP will also confirm to me that q rogue performs a lot better at legend than between 5 - legend where you will queue in a lot more aggro decks and that's why OP finished with only 56%. this winrate will increase a lot at high legend since you will face a lo more slower decks usually.
q rogue is not shit. it is just shit if not played correctly. not many people know how to do so so it's t3 in data report.
Yeah, it really depends on the day and time as well as the rank. Sometimes you face nothing but aggro, and sometimes you get 6 priests/jade druids in a row. And it's definitely not the mindless deck the whiners say it is. I've seen awful misplays (and made some myself as well), and so many people will play quest on turn 1 when the correct play is a tempo play.
kibler is a streamer and youtuber, not a progamer. he is known for playing greedy control decks - he never plays aggro- so it's obvious that he hates his bad match up which is quest rogue. I can understand this somehow but that's the meta game: every deck has a hard counter and that's fine! quest rogue keeps jade and other greedy shit in check and we need it. a nerf won't happen and that's fine!
The deck isn't OP, the issue with the deck is that it pushes the meta to all aggro. The only way to beat it consistently is aggro. Now, that's fine if control can handle aggro, to create a rock-paper-scissors scenario. But right now control just doesn't have the tools to handle the aggressive decks out there. It's scissors (aggro) beats paper (quest rogue/jade druid) beats rock, and rock doesn't beat anything.
Basically, any semblance of control is gone in the Un'Goro meta. That's not query rogue's fault on it's own, but it's existence is doing more to ruin control than jade druid ever did.
To those that say it's good to "punish greed", that's fine if there are decks out there that do that. But there should also be decks that punish aggro, and there just isn't enough these days. Personally, I enjoy games that last more than 8 turns and aren't determined by what you got in your opening hand.
kibler is a streamer and youtuber, not a progamer. he is known for playing greedy control decks - he never plays aggro- so it's obvious that he hates his bad match up which is quest rogue. I can understand this somehow but that's the meta game: every deck has a hard counter and that's fine! quest rogue keeps jade and other greedy shit in check and we need it. a nerf won't happen and that's fine!
WTF? Kibler is in the magic hall of fame and is the highest earning pro magic the gathering player of all time but hes not a "pro gamer?"
Kibler made a video about Quest Rogue. It's interesting. He argued that the Quest should be nerfed even though it doesn't have a high win rate in the current meta - I think I agree with him.
I would rewatch the video, nerfing Quest Rogue wasn't Kibler's argument or the reason he wanted to make that video. I'll just copy this from another post I made on this topic:
Kibler's states at 15:55 in the concluding segment that his purpose in making that video was to illustrate the various issues surrounding the card and that he hoped that we would have a better understanding of them and take something away other than "Nerf Quest Rogue! Quest Rogue is too good!" and goes on to say that "Nerf Quest Rogue is not my argument." I think Kibler makes a pretty good argument that both sides should be able to agree on concerning Quest Rogue at its current power level and the repetitive play patterns it creates.
Kibler's argument is that it creates a largely negative experience for some people on the ladder and that the repetitive play patterns it creates are not really fun or interactive for either party. I've played enough Crystal Rogue to say that Kibler has a point here - many games in the QR match ups play the same. Even if I am not using charge, the right play for my opponents is still to zerg my face if I have the Core in place. I often have little interaction with their board outside of tempo removal because I need to bounce minions or my minions are too weak to do anything against their taunts and after the core is in place I need to catch up in the face race because of the amount of damage I've already taken. While some opponents may clear your board before they see you are about to complete the quest, they have no incentive to 'interact' with my minions after the quest is done unless they are losing the face race, and so most games are just that, a face race.
LMAO whoever says Quest Rogue is shit has probably never reached rank 5. I'm really sick of people calling bad. Maybe reach at least rank 5/better and see how obliterates most (not all) decks. Experience dude, experience. Not some shitty haHAA stats.
kibler is a streamer and youtuber, not a progamer. he is known for playing greedy control decks - he never plays aggro- so it's obvious that he hates his bad match up which is quest rogue. I can understand this somehow but that's the meta game: every deck has a hard counter and that's fine! quest rogue keeps jade and other greedy shit in check and we need it. a nerf won't happen and that's fine!
WTF? Kibler is in the magic hall of fame and is the highest earning pro magic the gathering player of all time but hes not a "pro gamer?"
are you joking
Adding to this. Kibbler is also a gamedesigner. He worked on that Warcraft TCG way back when (one that unfortunately never took off). Iirc he is currently working on Eternal Cardgame. Plus many of the recent changes in Hearthstone are propositions that he himself put forward (of course it is a stretch to say that Kibler was the reason those changes were made but he at least had certainly an influencing factor) like a rotating sets and the Hall of Fame
kibler is a streamer and youtuber, not a progamer. he is known for playing greedy control decks - he never plays aggro- so it's obvious that he hates his bad match up which is quest rogue. I can understand this somehow but that's the meta game: every deck has a hard counter and that's fine! quest rogue keeps jade and other greedy shit in check and we need it. a nerf won't happen and that's fine!
WTF? Kibler is in the magic hall of fame and is the highest earning pro magic the gathering player of all time but hes not a "pro gamer?"
are you joking
Adding to this. Kibbler is also a gamedesigner. He worked on that Warcraft TCG way back when (one that unfortunately never took off). Iirc he is currently working on Eternal Cardgame. Plus many of the recent changes in Hearthstone are propositions that he himself put forward (of course it is a stretch to say that Kibler was the reason those changes were made but he at least had certainly an influencing factor) like a rotating sets and the Hall of Fame
He also designed Ascension, which is an awesome game. That "dontbemad" guy is totally wrong.
it's a strong deck that blocks off control from ever becoming dominant, so control now has 2x hard counters to deal with because of Jade Druid still looming in the back. combo has been steadily pushed to be a wild only thing, midrange is generally lacking driving power, and aggro as usual just sits around and smashes everything. this idiotic pyramid of power blizzard is pushing is a horrible attempt to create a metagame they can easily dictate and control, but all I see is creativity getting suffocated and the number of unwinnable matchups rapidly increasing. it used to be just freeze mage vs control warrior with like 5-10% for the unfavored. now count them. Blizzard has created a state where you bring an 'unfavored' deck in the meta you're often going to face almost a secure loss.
so yeah, Quest Rogue might not be performing in games as great as you hoped to (I guess?) but in truth the real power of Jade Druid and Quest Rogue is in the games that they're not allowing.
LMAO whoever says Quest Rogue is shit has probably never reached rank 5. I'm really sick of people calling bad. Maybe reach at least rank 5/better and see how obliterates most (not all) decks. Experience dude, experience. Not some shitty haHAA stats.
The thread OP, scout1515, has reached Legend several times - just check his signature. If he reached Legend with Quest Rogue and feels other decks performed better than it for the climb to legend, I would be inclined to believe him. Those statistics are from his own games and represent his experience because he kept track of all of that information with the Hearthstone Decktracker.
On a general note, what is experience if not a large number of games played? One's personal experiences might vary from the averages and other stats presented by Vicious Syndicate, but it doesn't invalidate the recorded experiences of 2500 active contributors. Between them they had around 55,000 recorded games over the course of a single week in the latest report, #53. I find it astonishing that people argue that such a large amount of documented experience isn't even worth looking at or considering.
kibler is a streamer and youtuber, not a progamer. he is known for playing greedy control decks - he never plays aggro- so it's obvious that he hates his bad match up which is quest rogue. I can understand this somehow but that's the meta game: every deck has a hard counter and that's fine! quest rogue keeps jade and other greedy shit in check and we need it. a nerf won't happen and that's fine!
WTF? Kibler is in the magic hall of fame and is the highest earning pro magic the gathering player of all time but hes not a "pro gamer?"
are you joking
Adding to this. Kibbler is also a gamedesigner. He worked on that Warcraft TCG way back when (one that unfortunately never took off). Iirc he is currently working on Eternal Cardgame. Plus many of the recent changes in Hearthstone are propositions that he himself put forward (of course it is a stretch to say that Kibler was the reason those changes were made but he at least had certainly an influencing factor) like a rotating sets and the Hall of Fame
He also designed Ascension, which is an awesome game. That "dontbemad" guy is totally wrong.
I was referring to Hearthstone since this is a Hearthstone forum. he is not a Hearthstone pro gamer, just a streamer and youtuber. if he says Q rogue needs a nerf, it does not mean a shit for me..
obvisouls he does not have fun with the game loosing to q rogue all the time with his greedy control decks.
if he would be a pirate warrior main, he would not complain.
kibler is a streamer and youtuber, not a progamer. he is known for playing greedy control decks - he never plays aggro- so it's obvious that he hates his bad match up which is quest rogue. I can understand this somehow but that's the meta game: every deck has a hard counter and that's fine! quest rogue keeps jade and other greedy shit in check and we need it. a nerf won't happen and that's fine!
That's a strawman. Kibler wasn't saying he disliked the tech because it was a counter, he disliked it because it's near impossible to tech against. Kibler is very nuanced in his statements, and making it sound like he is complaining because he dislikes being countered is falsehood.
The closest thing we've had to quest rogue's role in the meta is old handlock, which also preyed on controllish decks. But it was possible to tech against, you couldn't make yourself a favorite, but you could reduce its impact and give yourself a fighting chance.
kibler is a streamer and youtuber, not a progamer. he is known for playing greedy control decks - he never plays aggro- so it's obvious that he hates his bad match up which is quest rogue. I can understand this somehow but that's the meta game: every deck has a hard counter and that's fine! quest rogue keeps jade and other greedy shit in check and we need it. a nerf won't happen and that's fine!
That's a strawman. Kibler wasn't saying he disliked the tech because it was a counter, he disliked it because it's near impossible to tech against. Kibler is very nuanced in his statements, and making it sound like he is complaining because he dislikes being countered is falsehood.
The closest thing we've had to quest rogue's role in the meta is old handlock, which also preyed on controllish decks. But it was possible to tech against, you couldn't make yourself a favorite, but you could reduce its impact and give yourself a fighting chance.
lol and that's it !! games should not bedecided by stupid tech cards - every deck should have good and bad match up's in a healthy meta like are having it so you can't beat everything with a single deck and this is how it should be from my opinion! you can't beat q rogue with your greedy deck but you can't beat pirate warrior with q rogue (in most of the cases) - totally fine.
kibler is a streamer and youtuber, not a progamer. he is known for playing greedy control decks - he never plays aggro- so it's obvious that he hates his bad match up which is quest rogue. I can understand this somehow but that's the meta game: every deck has a hard counter and that's fine! quest rogue keeps jade and other greedy shit in check and we need it. a nerf won't happen and that's fine!
That's a strawman. Kibler wasn't saying he disliked the tech because it was a counter, he disliked it because it's near impossible to tech against. Kibler is very nuanced in his statements, and making it sound like he is complaining because he dislikes being countered is falsehood.
The closest thing we've had to quest rogue's role in the meta is old handlock, which also preyed on controllish decks. But it was possible to tech against, you couldn't make yourself a favorite, but you could reduce its impact and give yourself a fighting chance.
lol and that's it !! games should not bedecided by stupid tech cards - every deck should have good and bad match up's in a healthy meta like are having it so you can't beat everything with a single deck and this is how it should be from my opinion! you can't beat q rogue with your greedy deck but you can't beat pirate warrior with q rogue (in most of the cases) - totally fine.
Now you're just parroting your initial post, which is uninteresting. You're still misrepresenting the points made, which is a silly way to argue.
Kibler's point was never about "being countered". If you can't grasp that, just stop posting.
No prob, thanks for coming back to clarify. While we're talking about that video, I also like the point he made that what the change should be isn't very clear. He took a fairly balanced point of view and considered several different ideas for changes while acknowledging the different viewpoints on the card, which I think made the video approachable for everyone interested enough in watching it, no matter what their opinion on the card itself was.
No prob, thanks for coming back to clarify. While we're talking about that video, I also like the point he made that what the change should be isn't very clear. He took a fairly balanced point of view and considered several different ideas for changes while acknowledging the different viewpoints on the card, which I think made the video approachable for everyone interested enough in watching it, no matter what their opinion on the card itself was.
Indeed. It is a good video and as usual Kibler is very nuanced in his points.
Sad to see people rip into it while hollering "he's just mad he got countered, lul!".
kibler is a streamer and youtuber, not a progamer. he is known for playing greedy control decks - he never plays aggro- so it's obvious that he hates his bad match up which is quest rogue. I can understand this somehow but that's the meta game: every deck has a hard counter and that's fine! quest rogue keeps jade and other greedy shit in check and we need it. a nerf won't happen and that's fine!
WTF? Kibler is in the magic hall of fame and is the highest earning pro magic the gathering player of all time but hes not a "pro gamer?"
are you joking
Adding to this. Kibbler is also a gamedesigner. He worked on that Warcraft TCG way back when (one that unfortunately never took off). Iirc he is currently working on Eternal Cardgame. Plus many of the recent changes in Hearthstone are propositions that he himself put forward (of course it is a stretch to say that Kibler was the reason those changes were made but he at least had certainly an influencing factor) like a rotating sets and the Hall of Fame
He also designed Ascension, which is an awesome game. That "dontbemad" guy is totally wrong.
I was referring to Hearthstone since this is a Hearthstone forum. he is not a Hearthstone pro gamer, just a streamer and youtuber. if he says Q rogue needs a nerf, it does not mean a shit for me..
obvisouls he does not have fun with the game loosing to q rogue all the time with his greedy control decks.
if he would be a pirate warrior main, he would not complain.
S39 Legend - Quest Rogue, S38 Legend - Murloc Paladin, S37 Legend - Miracle Rogue, S36 Top 200 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S35 - Finished Rank 51 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S34 Legend - Aggro Shaman
kibler is a streamer and youtuber, not a progamer. he is known for playing greedy control decks - he never plays aggro- so it's obvious that he hates his bad match up which is quest rogue. I can understand this somehow but that's the meta game: every deck has a hard counter and that's fine! quest rogue keeps jade and other greedy shit in check and we need it. a nerf won't happen and that's fine!
The deck isn't OP, the issue with the deck is that it pushes the meta to all aggro. The only way to beat it consistently is aggro. Now, that's fine if control can handle aggro, to create a rock-paper-scissors scenario. But right now control just doesn't have the tools to handle the aggressive decks out there. It's scissors (aggro) beats paper (quest rogue/jade druid) beats rock, and rock doesn't beat anything.
Basically, any semblance of control is gone in the Un'Goro meta. That's not query rogue's fault on it's own, but it's existence is doing more to ruin control than jade druid ever did.
To those that say it's good to "punish greed", that's fine if there are decks out there that do that. But there should also be decks that punish aggro, and there just isn't enough these days. Personally, I enjoy games that last more than 8 turns and aren't determined by what you got in your opening hand.
LMAO whoever says Quest Rogue is shit has probably never reached rank 5. I'm really sick of people calling bad. Maybe reach at least rank 5/better and see how obliterates most (not all) decks. Experience dude, experience. Not some shitty haHAA stats.
S39 Legend - Quest Rogue, S38 Legend - Murloc Paladin, S37 Legend - Miracle Rogue, S36 Top 200 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S35 - Finished Rank 51 Legend - Aggro Shaman, S34 Legend - Aggro Shaman
it's a strong deck that blocks off control from ever becoming dominant, so control now has 2x hard counters to deal with because of Jade Druid still looming in the back. combo has been steadily pushed to be a wild only thing, midrange is generally lacking driving power, and aggro as usual just sits around and smashes everything. this idiotic pyramid of power blizzard is pushing is a horrible attempt to create a metagame they can easily dictate and control, but all I see is creativity getting suffocated and the number of unwinnable matchups rapidly increasing. it used to be just freeze mage vs control warrior with like 5-10% for the unfavored. now count them. Blizzard has created a state where you bring an 'unfavored' deck in the meta you're often going to face almost a secure loss.
so yeah, Quest Rogue might not be performing in games as great as you hoped to (I guess?) but in truth the real power of Jade Druid and Quest Rogue is in the games that they're not allowing.
''He traded sands for skins, skins for gold, gold for life. In the end, he traded life for sand.''
(.o.))~ ~(('o') (.o.))~
No prob, thanks for coming back to clarify. While we're talking about that video, I also like the point he made that what the change should be isn't very clear. He took a fairly balanced point of view and considered several different ideas for changes while acknowledging the different viewpoints on the card, which I think made the video approachable for everyone interested enough in watching it, no matter what their opinion on the card itself was.